Who was Buffy's best boyfriend?

[Btvs fan]

Buffys best boyfriend - none of the above
They are all Terrible
Angel first sets eyes on Buffy when she is 15 and he will say he fell in love with her the first time he saw her yikes 😬
Dates her at 16 , has sex with her at 17 dumps her at 18 , has sex with her again at 19 (maybe) then wipes her memory.
In S5 he admits to sending somone to stalk her and wishes he'd sent more guys while his objections to Spike plan of locking her away was that she'd get out not due to any moral reason. All in all he's a terrible.


Riley despite Joss and the Writers thinking he's the greatest thing ever, is also pretty awful and given he's her Teacher who grades her answers in College actually inappropriate. He's also incredibly bland as a character with zero chemistry.

Spike in S5 Stalks her, chains her up, threatened to kill her, and builds a sex robot in her image. Buffy rewards this behaviour by kissing him. Yikes
S6 is incredibly messed up with the AR but even before that you have joyless Alley sex and Balcony Scene which SMG was famously unhappy with and was put in by Joss himself.
In S7 its a bit different as he has a Soul though it was about Spike trauma not Buffys and Whedon went the full cowards way (which he admits on the Chosen DVD commentary) by not showing them have sex on screen after the AR but says you can imagine it if you want. Like seriously WTF

So overall none of the relationships are any good and the products of a very toxic individuals mind.

Honestly for me I wish she'd have ended up dating Faith Now she should've been the true love.


I actually feel bad for the Buffy character, as Buffy is now defined by who she dated and not her as a character. Even today the fanbase simply argues over who should be the best boyfriend and that is it

 

[AstridDante]

Buffys best boyfriend - none of the above
They are all Terrible
Angel first sets eyes on Buffy when she is 15 and he will say he fell in love with her the first time he saw her yikes 😬
Dates her at 16 , has sex with her at 17 dumps her at 18 , has sex with her again at 19 (maybe) then wipes her memory.
In S5 he admits to sending somone to stalk her and wishes he'd sent more guys while his objections to Spike plan of locking her away was that she'd get out not due to any moral reason. All in all he's a terrible.


Riley despite Joss and the Writers thinking he's the greatest thing ever, is also pretty awful and given he's her Teacher who grades her answers in College actually inappropriate. He's also incredibly bland as a character with zero chemistry.

Spike in S5 Stalks her, chains her up, threatened to kill her, and builds a sex robot in her image. Buffy rewards this behaviour by kissing him. Yikes
S6 is incredibly messed up with the AR but even before that you have joyless Alley sex and Balcony Scene which SMG was famously unhappy with and was put in by Joss himself.
In S7 its a bit different as he has a Soul though it was about Spike trauma not Buffys and Whedon went the full cowards way (which he admits on the Chosen DVD commentary) by not showing them have sex on screen after the AR but says you can imagine it if you want. Like seriously WTF

So overall none of the relationships are any good and the products of a very toxic individuals mind.

Honestly for me I wish she'd have ended up dating Faith Now she should've been the true love.


I actually feel bad for the Buffy character, as Buffy is now defined by who she dated and not her as a character. Even today the fanbase simply argues over who should be the best boyfriend and that is it

I agree with all your critiques. None of her relationships were great but I don’t think Faith was great shakes either. They also tried to kill each other and there is the small matter of her violating Buffy and Riley by using her body for sex without her consent

 

[famicommander]

Faith?

How could we just gloss over the fact that she bodyjacked Buffy and then tricked Riley into having sex with her? That's essentially two rapes for the price of one.

Not to mention the fact that she's a serial murderer (mayor's aide was an accident but the good demon with the Books of Ascension, the arms dealer, and the college professor were very intentional).

 

[thetopher]

Sheesh. Whatever bad things Faith did are entirely irrelevant; they are not 'relationship bad' in the sense of hurting Buffy emotionally and at the same time being in an intimate place to do so.

Faith never dated Buffy, was never really that deep in her life, and so could not upset her in the uniquely painful way Angel, Riley or Spike did. Well, she probably pissed Buffy off more than Riley ever did but still...

Also, what Faith did to Buffy was never 'glossed over'; quite the opposite in fact, it was high-lighted.

 

[famicommander]

Sheesh. Whatever bad things Faith did are entirely irrelevant; they are not 'relationship bad' in the sense of hurting Buffy emotionally and at the same time being in an intimate place to do so.

Faith never dated Buffy, was never really that deep in her life, and so could not upset her in the uniquely painful way Angel, Riley or Spike did. Well, she probably pissed Buffy off more than Riley ever did but still...

Also, what Faith did to Buffy was never 'glossed over'; quite the opposite in fact, it was high-lighted.

I was referring to a post on this very page saying Buffy should be paired with Faith, not that they were a bad pairing already.

And yes, the things she did were absolutely relevant in that context. There's no getting around the fact that she raped Buffy and Riley. Just because the show didn't choose to deal with it in those terms doesn't change the reality of what they chose to portray on screen.

It's ridiculous to advocate Buffy being paired with someone who raped both her and the man she was dating at the time.

 

[Plasma]

Why not just say Man/Woman.
« This is my Man. She is my woman ». It makes understand that there is a love relationship.. sounds good for me.

Because gender is complicated or uncomfortable for a lot of people. Self included. 😅

It’s easier to just not have a universal term, really. Call someone your Hunky Wunky Mechagodzilla or something. Get crazy with it! 😜

 

[thetopher]

I was referring to a post on this very page saying Buffy should be paired with Faith, not that they were a bad pairing already.

Not remotely relevant given that they were never in a relationship. They were never a pairing, bad or otherwise.

There's no getting around the fact that she raped Buffy and Riley.

Not even a fact to get around, only an interpretation. I guess you could make a legal argument regarding Riley but that's about it.

Just because the show didn't choose to deal with it in those terms

Yes, because it dealt with it in terms that were accurate. Faith tried to harm Buffy's actual relationships, not form a relationship with Buffy herself. The difference is incredibly stark.

 

[famicommander]

Not remotely relevant given that they were never in a relationship. They were never a pairing, bad or otherwise.

Not even a fact to get around, only an interpretation. I guess you could make a legal argument regarding Riley but that's about it

Yes, because it dealt with it in terms that were accurate. Faith tried to harm Buffy's actual relationships, not form a relationship with Buffy herself. The difference is incredibly stark.

Again, my post was in direct response to someone claiming that Buffy should be paired with Faith, not that they were already a pairing. The argument isn't that Faith was Buffy's worst or best romantic partner, the argument is that it's absurd to try to pair them in the first place due to Faith's actions.

Faith had sex, using Buffy's body and lying about her identity to Riley. Non-consensual sex is rape. Neither Buffy nor Riley consented to the sex. Faith therefore raped them both. It's really, really not complicated. She had no right to use someone else's body for sex and she had no right to have sex with a man who thought she was an entirely different person.

Faith's intentions are not relevant in this context. The motivation behind her rapes doesn't change anything at all.

 

[thetopher]

The argument isn't that Faith was Buffy's worst or best romantic partner, the argument is that it's absurd to try to pair them in the first place due to Faith's actions.

That isn't even an argument, its a statement. An irrelevant one.

It's really, really not complicated. She had no right to use someone else's body for sex and she had no right to have sex with a man who thought she was an entirely different person.

A body-swap is not rape; it is what it is, a mystical violation with no real world equivalent. Buffy's person/soul/mind whatever was not, in any way, present when Faith had sex with Riley. He, you could argue, was raped-by-deception.

 

[famicommander]

A body-swap is not rape; it is what it is, a mystical violation with no real world equivalent. Buffy's person/soul/mind whatever was not, in any way, present when Faith had sex with Riley. He, you could argue, was raped-by-deception.

Both are rape.

When Buffy got back into her body she had to realize that her body had been used in such a manner. It's no different than having sex with someone while they're unconscious.

And the Riley rape was even less ambiguous.

Faith raped Buffy and Riley. That's what they portrayed on screen. There's no wiggle room at all and it being "mystical" in nature doesn't change anything about it at all.

 

[thetopher]

Both are rape.

When Buffy got back into her body she had to realize that her body had been used in such a manner. It's no different than having sex with someone while they're unconscious.

Except that it IS different. Buffy was not unconscious, she was not roofied, she was somebody else, somewhere else lol. That's entirely different.

You need to learn nuance; the difference between a teenager and a child, what motivates a stalker and that a bodyswap is not like being knocked unconscious.

I'm out, I don't want to derail the thread further with this nonsense.

 

[famicommander]

Except that it IS different. Buffy was not unconscious, she was not roofied, she was somebody else, somewhere else lol. That's entirely different.

You need to learn nuance; the difference between a teenager and a child, what motivates a stalker and that a bodyswap is not like being knocked unconscious.

I'm out, I don't want to derail the thread further with this nonsense.

Quite mature to get your shots in and THEN declare you're done for not wanting to derail.

Buffy's body was taken from her without consent and then used for sex without her consent. That's rape. Buffy is the only legitimate owner of her own body and Faith violated her rights by taking the body, then violated them again by having sex with Riley. Buffy and Riley are the only people who get a say about whether or not their bodies are used for sex. Period.

And, legally speaking, a child is anyone under the age of majority. That's a fact. The age of majority as well as the age of consent where the sex between Buffy and Angel on her 17th birthday took place was 18 years of age. Therefore, Angel committed statutory rape by having sex with a child. The same child he began stalking when she was 15, no less.

You say I need to learn nuance? I say you have no concept of consent and your posts just come off as apologizing for the rapes your favorite fictional characters are portrayed committing on screen.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

Are we missing the fact that Buffy took Faith's favourite knife and shoved it into her gut? Faith got Buffy into trouble breaking into a sporting goods store. Then they both escaped custody, another part of why the law would be looking for them. Then, the body swap where Faith deceived Riley and used Buffy for her own pleasure. This is not romance. It's criminality, which might be a turn-on for some girls, but not Buffy. They make peace with each other in Season 7, but that is the extent of it.

 

[KaitKat]

Are we missing the fact that Buffy took Faith's favourite knife and shoved it into her gut? Faith got Buffy into trouble breaking into a sporting goods store. Then they both escaped custody, another part of why the law would be looking for them. Then, the body swap where Faith deceived Riley and used Buffy for her own pleasure. This is not romance. It's criminality, which might be a turn-on for some girls, but not Buffy. They make peace with each other in Season 7, but that is the extent of it.

To be fair I don’t think what Faith did to Buffy in season four was remotely okay but everytime people talk about Fuffy they talk about what Faith did to Buffy nobody ever mentions that Buffy tried to turn Faith into a happy meal for her boyfriend. They also talk about the fact that post series they think Faith would be good for Buffy as she isn’t a vampire but would dating Buffy really be good for Faith?

Just to be clear even if I didn’t think Buffy would be the worst romantic decision that Faith would make I still wouldn’t ship then because the toxicity is a two way street with them, just point out an angle that’s never looked at.

 

[Plasma]

Wow it’s getting really heated in here.

I agree that Faith has some issues…okay well a LOT of issues, but I think we’ve gotten way too far away from the point of the thread at this point. The hostility towards other people is also something that needs to cool it. Nothing wrong with disagreeing with someone else’s post, but let’s stay away from attacking each other.

 

[Bop]

I think at the end of the day each relationship had something awful to it, it just depends on what each fan can overlook. There are plenty of Willow/Tara, Buffy/Faith, Buffy/Spike and Buffy/Angel fans and all of those relationships have outright violent unambiguous attempted rape (Buffy/Spike) or situations that especially in recent years have been called rape. And most if not all of them are all still more popular that Buffy/Riley which had problems but not rape. So clearly it's not make or break for the appeal of a ship.

 

[famicommander]

To be fair I don’t think what Faith did to Buffy in season four was remotely okay but everytime people talk about Fuffy they talk about what Faith did to Buffy nobody ever mentions that Buffy tried to turn Faith into a happy meal for her boyfriend. They also talk about the fact that post series they think Faith would be good for Buffy as she isn’t a vampire but would dating Buffy really be good for Faith?

Just to be clear even if I didn’t think Buffy would be the worst romantic decision that Faith would make I still wouldn’t ship then because the toxicity is a two way street with them, just point out an angle that’s never looked at.

The only reason Buffy tried to feed Faith to Angel in the first place is because Faith poisoned Angel with something to which the only cure was slayer blood, though. It's not like Buffy just randomly decided to gut Faith. She decided to gut Faith after she killed the mayor's aide, killed the demon that was going to give them the Books of Ascension, killed the arms dealer that brought the spider box, killed the college professor, and then infected Angel with a fatal poison.

 

[KaitKat]

I think at the end of the day each relationship had something awful to it, it just depends on what each fan can overlook. There are plenty of Willow/Tara, Buffy/Faith, Buffy/Spike and Buffy/Angel fans and all of those relationships have outright violent unambiguous attempted rape (Buffy/Spike) or situations that especially in recent years have been called rape. And most if not all of them are all still more popular that Buffy/Riley which had problems but not rape. So clearly it's not make or break for the appeal of a ship.

100% This! I’m aware that my favorite characters are problematic, almost every character in the Buffyverse is, and I do ship people that I would never want together in real life but good lord people. People need to stop trying to make people feel immoral for liking a ship with problematic elements, that doesn’t mean they are awful in real life, and people also need to stop being offended when someone else can’t see past the problematic aspects of their favorite ships.

 

[Bop]

100% This! I’m aware that my favorite characters are problematic, almost every character in the Buffyverse is, and I do ship people that I would never want together in real life but good lord people. People need to stop trying to make people feel immoral for liking a ship with problematic elements, that doesn’t mean they are awful in real life, and people also need to stop being offended when someone else can’t see past the problematic aspects of their favorite ships.

I think it's because the problematic aspects of characters are so easy to weaponise but if you stick around long enough in the fandom you start to discover the skeletons in a lot of different ship's cupboards which doesn't invalidate being bothered by them, but it does invalidate being so stuck up about certain things. I'm sure I've been guilty of acting similar but I've figured out lately that it's more the way the problematic aspects are portrayed in the story than the problematic aspects themselves that bothers me because these are characters and it is a story so the message is what matters imo.

 

[Slayer coma The]

I said Riley. He would have been the best long term. Until they decided to get rid of him and made him go crazy lol

I actually like Riley unlike a lot of other people, but I just don't think that he was right for Buffy.

Post automatically merged: May 18, 2022

I picked Bangel but c'mon there's no I can't choose option what's up with that. lol

Post automatically merged: May 18, 2022

I think the Spuffy dynamic was amazing as well, honestly tomorrow it will probably be Spuffy. I love both couples!