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Why didn’t Spike go to Buffy in Harm’s Way?

AstridDante

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I know he said something about going out on a heroic note that it would be anticlimactic just to turn up on her door but I think it was fear of rejection, fear of finding out if her ‘I love you’ was only said with his impending death. When he first turned up in Just Rewards his first instinct was to go to her. He said to Angel ‘you don’t know what we had’ so I think a part of him deep down had a little bit of hope for them but over the course of the series he started to become more doubtful like in TGIQ.
 

white avenger

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This is entirely my take on the matter, and has no verification anywhere in canon on either show, but I think that it would be safe to say that it was some sort of residual element of the spell that the Senior Partners put on the Amulet, intending that Angel himself would be its wearer. Just as it would not allow Spike to leave the Los Angeles area while he was incorporeal, it still held him connected, for want of a better word, to the affairs of the law firm, not just within the limits of Los Angeles, but anywhere where the Senior Partners held influence.

The spell that restored him to solid form returned his free will, but not that connection to W&H, hence, he was able to travel to Nevada to get the Cup Of Eternal Mountain Dew, and he was able to travel to Rome, since both events were in some way connected to the law firm or its main interests. Basically, while Spike regained enough of his free will to oppose Wolfram & Hart, he wasn't able to just walk away from their operation until after the final battle in "Not Fade Away," assuming that you take the Dark Horse series as canon.

(And that all sounded a whole lot less complicated before I tried to write it all down)
 

AlphaFoxtrot

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Because James had a contract with the WB to appear on episodes of Angel? It wasn't a very good reason, if memory serves.
 

Myheadsgonenumb

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Mostly because James Marsters was contracted to the end of the season and they only got the season on the back of having Spike in it. But obviously they can't just say that - so they come up with a weak sauce 'it would ruin the sacrifice' excuse.
It's a bit like Giles leaving in season 6 - the reasons are entirely real world so the story doesn't really make much sense but has to happen that way. It's one of those plot points that aren't deeper than you see because they're not a plot point, they're a real world necessity.
 

Faded90

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I think it’s one of those things that you need to suspend the reality of it because it’s actually shockingly selfish for Spike to allow Buffy to continue believing he’s dead when he knows she cares for him simply because he might then be less of a hero in her eyes

I dislike Spuffy a lot but even I largely don’t hold it against Spike because it makes no sense
 

WillowFromBuffy

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Yes, I think you've answered your own question. I think he would rather live with the knowledge that she remembers his sacrifice and his love for her than show up and risk rejection.

For Spike, dying for love is the best way to go. "There's death, there's glory and sod all else."
 

AlphaFoxtrot

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Actually, I'm somewhat wondering why Buffy didn't already know? I mean, it's never been clear how close in contact the two teams are, but "Spike is a ghost" seems like something Wes, if not Angel, would tell the Scoobies immediately. I mean, e-mail exists in 2003.
 

Faded90

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Actually, I'm somewhat wondering why Buffy didn't already know? I mean, it's never been clear how close in contact the two teams are, but "Spike is a ghost" seems like something Wes, if not Angel, would tell the Scoobies immediately. I mean, e-mail exists in 2003.
The same reason why Angel is supposedly having her stalked rather than just calling her and asking what she’s up to. It’s all very odd
 

Myheadsgonenumb

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I dunno - Angel can be quite jealous and petty when it comes to Buffy and guys, and Spike brings out the very worst in him. I can well believe he wouldn't be running off to tell Buffy that Spike was back. And Wesley has never had any contact with any of the scoobies once he left Sunnydale - no reason he would get in touch with them over Spike. And he wouldn't do it without checking with Angel first...

Cordy and Willow used to contact each other but only in emergencies: to hack the encrypted files, to talk about Harmony (informing Cordelia her old best friend was dead was not considered sufficiently important to get a phone call) and to tell them Buffy was back. But now Cordelia is in a coma - so that line of communication is down.

Fred rang Willow in season 4 but again that was a dire emergency that only Willow could solve. She isn't going to ring Willow to pass on a bit of gossip, and obviously Spike being back is a big thing that has emotional resonance that Fred isn't a part of. She isn't going to stick her nose in and blithely announce over the phone to Willow that Spike is back, so Buffy hears the news through several third parties. She's more emotionally intelligent and compassionate than that. Plus she has her own things going on, Buffy knowing about Spike isn't going to be a priority for her in the same way that getting Angel's soul back was.

They only get in touch with Giles when they find Dana because that is a situation that is directly linked to slayers and watchers - and it is at that point that Andrew informs them no one in their camp trusts Angel any more - including Buffy. Which then makes sense as to why he has to stalk her rather than just ring her up and ask her what she's up to: she won't tell him.

So I don't think it's weird that no one in the team has contacted any scoobies to tell them about Spike, they've just spent the past four years putting clear blue water between the two groups. Angel left to stay out of Buffy's life in the first place, and now he has his own life to contend with as well. Spike's reason for not leaving once he is corporealised is daft but that's because there is no sensible reason he wouldn't got to her and the only reason he stays are real world ones. I guess they could have created some kind of 'still connected to Wolfram and Hart so isn't free' or 'has to stay for the shanshu prophecy' reason but that would take up story space and exposition and screen time that they just didn't want to include and might have ended up tying their hands further down the line (after all - they didn't know they were going to get cancelled). 'I changed my mind' is quick, easy, has no repercussions and allows them to get on with the show.
 
B
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Angel does ring Giles in Shells and Giles refuses to send Willow to help Fred

white avenger

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Actually, I'm somewhat wondering why Buffy didn't already know?
If you accept the Dark Horse books as canon, Buffy actually did know that Spike was alive, and I got the feeling that she probably knew even before the incident with Dana in L A. Willow told him so in the arc where she came to help out with the Senior Partners during what would have been the second of two canon arcs in the non-Dark Horse series (sorry, I can't remember the title) She told Spike that Buffy "kicked down doors and threatened people" until she found out the truth, then pretty much made the same decision that Spike did in "Angel" Season 5, that when the time was right, they would be back together (not necessarily as lovers, but as comrades in arms, fighting evil) which is what actually did happen toward the end of "Buffy" Season 8 at Dark House.
 

Btvs fan

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If you accept the Dark Horse books as canon, Buffy actually did know that Spike was alive, and I got the feeling that she probably knew even before the incident with Dana in L A. Willow told him so in the arc where she came to help out with the Senior Partners during what would have been the second of two canon arcs in the non-Dark Horse series (sorry, I can't remember the title) She told Spike that Buffy "kicked down doors and threatened people" until she found out the truth, then pretty much made the same decision that Spike did in "Angel" Season 5, that when the time was right, they would be back together (not necessarily as lovers, but as comrades in arms, fighting evil) which is what actually did happen toward the end of "Buffy" Season 8 at Dark House.
Urghh the whole Twilight arc is something else. Why wouldn't Angel contact Buffy directly instead of decide that its better to murder her girls instead ?
 

Faded90

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Urghh the whole Twilight arc is something else. Why wouldn't Angel contact Buffy directly instead of decide that its better to murder her girls instead ?
I can’t believe they brought the word ‘Twilight’ into Buffy full stop 😂 just one in a line of awful comic storylines but this one was spectacularly bad
 

Btvs fan

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I can’t believe they brought the word ‘Twilight’ into Buffy full stop 😂 just one in a line of awful comic storylines but this one was spectacularly bad
What was even worse was the post resurrecting storyline of Giles. I guess those poor girls Angel killed aren't worth resurrecting and besides Buffy had abandoned them anyway so screw em :mad:
 

Faded90

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What was even worse was the post resurrecting storyline of Giles. I guess those poor girls Angel killed aren't worth resurrecting and besides Buffy had abandoned them anyway so screw em :mad:
This is why I just can’t accept them as canon. There’s far too many ooc moments and character assassination to characters I’ve loved from the show
 

AlphaFoxtrot

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I think Chibbi Giles was stupid, but my understanding is that his soul belonged to Eghyon, and the resurrection was the only way to free him from his servitude. At least that makes sense. Hell is eternal, high school isn't.
 

Myheadsgonenumb

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I think of the comics as being 'soft canon' - it's a change of medium which means things that could never happen on a T.V show are able to happen but Buffy/ Angel are T.V shows and therefore the 'hard canon' has to be limited to what can happen in live action, because people don't suddenly turn into 2d animated versions of themselves.
They're fine for the people who like them, but they don't have any bearing on the real show, you can't defend problems in the real show with what happens in another medium twenty years after the fact and the retcons (like it not really being Buffy in the girl in question) meh - you can take them or leave them. It's only soft canon.
You know for a fact if they ever brought Buffy back to T.V or film as it was - with SMG et al - they would drop everything that happened in the comics like a hot rock in order to tell a story which suited live action.

That used to happen in the star wars extended universe all the time. I've even heard a rumour of a comic which came out before Return of the Jedi where Luke and Leia get together. That never saw the light of day again once episode VI was released. The Buffy comics would be treated no differently.
 

Priceless

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I think it's down to the individual how they feel about the comics. I love them and think they are definitely cannon. Joss wrote them or provided the story for them and until Joss says they aren't canon I shall continue to see them as such. There is little in the comics that I think is out of character for anybody, though of course there are things I wish didn't happen or happened differently, but I think that about the show too.
 

Faded90

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I think of the comics as being 'soft canon' - it's a change of medium which means things that could never happen on a T.V show are able to happen but Buffy/ Angel are T.V shows and therefore the 'hard canon' has to be limited to what can happen in live action, because people don't suddenly turn into 2d animated versions of themselves.
They're fine for the people who like them, but they don't have any bearing on the real show, you can't defend problems in the real show with what happens in another medium twenty years after the fact and the retcons (like it not really being Buffy in the girl in question) meh - you can take them or leave them. It's only soft canon.
You know for a fact if they ever brought Buffy back to T.V or film as it was - with SMG et al - they would drop everything that happened in the comics like a hot rock in order to tell a story which suited live action.

That used to happen in the star wars extended universe all the time. I've even heard a rumour of a comic which came out before Return of the Jedi where Luke and Leia get together. That never saw the light of day again once episode VI was released. The Buffy comics would be treated no differently.
Yeah totally agree. Joss has said he’d happily dismiss them if he ever brought ‘Buffy’ back to TV so that means I can too 😂 I read an interview with Joss not long ago and it sounds like he got bored of doing them pretty quickly and they were like a chain around his neck for a lot of it. Hence him basically palming them off to someone else
 

white avenger

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Why wouldn't Angel contact Buffy directly instead of decide that its better to murder her girls instead ?
I have two theories about that.

1) Angel didn't try to contact Buffy after Sunnydale because he didn't know where she was ("Somewhere in Europe, the last I heard," covers a whole lot of territory) That being so, e might have tried to send her a message through Giles, but, knowing the Watcher the way that we do, he never delivered the message, and probably the same thing happened when Angel was trying to contact Willow to help Fred when Illyria was taking her over.

2) (All Bangel shippers better skip this one, cause it ain't really very Angel friendly) Angel was still jealous that Buffy "had Spike in her heart" and just didn't want to talk to her, especially since Spike was back among the (un)living. That would also explain why neither Angel nor any of his friends ever bothered to tell Buffy about Spike's return.

As for the team of Slayers who were there in LA, and wound up getting sucked into hell after "Not Fade Away," they were most likely sent there by Giles after his team went to retrieve Dana, which would also explain why they never bothered to tell Buffy anything about Spike, either. They were reporting directly to Giles, and Buffy most likely didn't even know that they were there.
 
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