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Why didn't we see Spike in Season 2 of Angel?

Svondie

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Drusilla comes to LA to turn Darla into a vampire and they start the family up again basically as Darla continues to try to get Angel to also join them. Why wouldn't they have gotten Spike too. It's been a while since I've watch BTVS, so I was wondering. Does Spike already have the Chip? or was he just MIA?
 
W

WillowFromBuffy

Guest
Drusilla comes to LA to turn Darla into a vampire and they start the family up again basically as Darla continues to try to get Angel to also join them. Why wouldn't they have gotten Spike too. It's been a while since I've watch BTVS, so I was wondering. Does Spike already have the Chip? or was he just MIA?
Drusilla goes to get Spike after Angel sets her and Darla on fire. Spike had been chipped for a long time at this point and he betrays Drusilla for Buffy ... kinda.
 

thetopher

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Either W&H didn't think they could be able to 'manage' Spike properly (he's a 'loose cannon' as The Mayor said, and is violently unpredictable) or they didn't think much to him personally and went with a dangerous vampire they actually respected; Drusilla.
This plays more into W&H's more calculating version of evil; they would have more time for someone like Angelus rather than a hothead like Spike.

Or maybe W&H's psychological profilers knew that Angel would be maybe more likely to hesitate when it came to Drusilla but wouldn't if Spike was their, since they'd crossed paths the year before and were mutually antagonistic. The goal of W&H was to 'play' Angel for their own purposes rather than recreate the whirlwind.

Maybe they thought that Drusilla alone was just more manageable, but historically speaking the deadly couple were not (they're sort-of a multiplying factor that way) and so they wouldn't take the risk of going to recruit Spike.

Or maybe they knew what the Initiative was up to and knew that a neutered vampire didn't suit their purposes- killing and turning Darla and wreaking general havoc. Then again it would've been a nice hook to get Spike to work for them if that were the case, so maybe this is the least likely possibility (although a fun 'what-if?')
 

nightshade

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If W&H knew about the chip then they would have had to remove it otherwise Spike would have been useless to them.
 
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WillowFromBuffy

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If you are asking why WRH didn't hire Spike, then that should be obvious. One, he was chipped. Second, he would kill Angel rather than help turn him evil.

Drusilla only went for Spike after they burnt their bridges with WRH.
 

SES SA

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Maybe they thought it was a waste of money? Not only was he chipped but Drusilla left him because he wasn't "demon enough" for her anymore. "Gone soft" was the news from his former minion. News probably spread to LA. And Angel was costing them millions at the time. Can't be reckless with the bottom line. The Senior Partners want an Apocalypse and they want it under budget.
 

Mrs Gordo

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Because the writers wanted to make sure that season 2 was perfection. Spike would just ruin that. Yes yes... but Pylea. They had damn near perfection through Reprise!

But in all seriousness Spike doesn’t fit the story which is about the vampire that damned Angel (Darla) and the vampire that Angel damned (Drusilla). Its about Angel’s past being his ultimate failure in trying to save Darla’s soul. It’s perfect poetry just like that. Any additional ingredients are not necessary.
 
Fool for Buffy
Fool for Buffy
Agreed, everything through Reprise was perfect

DeadlyDuo

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Because the writers wanted to make sure that season 2 was perfection. Spike would just ruin that. Yes yes... but Pylea. They had damn near perfection through Reprise!

But in all seriousness Spike doesn’t fit the story which is about the vampire that damned Angel (Darla) and the vampire that Angel damned (Drusilla). Its about Angel’s past being his ultimate failure in trying to save Darla’s soul. It’s perfect poetry just like that. Any additional ingredients are not necessary.
I think if Spike hadn't been chipped and Drusilla hadn't left him a 2nd time then he could've fit in Season 2. Kind of like Angel's old family (The Whirlwind) and Angel's new family (Angel Investigations) are battling for his soul and Angel has to pick a side.
 

Mrs Gordo

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I think if Spike hadn't been chipped and Drusilla hadn't left him a 2nd time then he could've fit in Season 2. Kind of like Angel's old family (The Whirlwind) and Angel's new family (Angel Investigations) are battling for his soul and Angel has to pick a side.
But that wasn't the theme of s2. The theme of s1 was family. The theme of s2 was Angel and his past. The two significant figures in Angel's past are Darla and Drusilla because they represent how he became a monster and what he did as a monster. Spike is not relevant to that story. He didn't sire Spike. He didn't torture him as a human, drive him crazy and then damn him when he was a monster.

Angel and Spike have a history (but really in the grand scheme of things they just hung out together for 18 years and from flashbacks it seems many of those years Angelus was pretty annoyed with Spike's antics). But that history is not really deeply ingrained in Angel. The fascinating point of s2 is Angel's desire to save Darla when she was the one who damned him, that was to him tied to whether he was capable of being saved himself. And the irony is that his biggest regret, the worst thing he ever did as a monster (Drusilla), is the very reason he fails. Again - Spike doesn't factor into the story. Spike just isn't really all that relevant or important when it comes to Angel's past. In fact, I would argue that Spike being any part of Dru siring Darla would take away from the perfect poetry of the story. Because Dru siring Darla alone circles back around to Angel's past transgression being the reason Darla could not be saved. If Spike had helped or had anything to do with that, it eats away at the perfect symmetry of it all.
 

DeadlyDuo

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But that wasn't the theme of s2. The theme of s1 was family. The theme of s2 was Angel and his past. The two significant figures in Angel's past are Darla and Drusilla because they represent how he became a monster and what he did as a monster. Spike is not relevant to that story. He didn't sire Spike. He didn't torture him as a human, drive him crazy and then damn him when he was a monster.

Angel and Spike have a history (but really in the grand scheme of things they just hung out together for 18 years and from flashbacks it seems many of those years Angelus was pretty annoyed with Spike's antics). But that history is not really deeply ingrained in Angel. The fascinating point of s2 is Angel's desire to save Darla when she was the one who damned him, that was to him tied to whether he was capable of being saved himself. And the irony is that his biggest regret, the worst thing he ever did as a monster (Drusilla), is the very reason he fails. Again - Spike doesn't factor into the story. Spike just isn't really all that relevant or important when it comes to Angel's past. In fact, I would argue that Spike being any part of Dru siring Darla would take away from the perfect poetry of the story. Because Dru siring Darla alone circles back around to Angel's past transgression being the reason Darla could not be saved. If Spike had helped or had anything to do with that, it eats away at the perfect symmetry of it all.
True, but if you're going to have 3/4 of the Whirlwind onscreen in modern day, why not go the whole hog and have ALL the members of the Whirlwind on screen? Spike doesn't need to have a major role. Buffy Season 2 had only 3 members but that was because Darla was dead. At the time of Angel Season 2, all of the Whirlwind are alive.

Spike also wouldn't necessarily want Angelus back. With Angelus gone, Spike theoretically gets Dru to himself. Potentially though, even if Angelus did return, Darla would keep him occupied which would mean Spike could still have Dru all to himself. Spike would kind of face the same choice he had in Buffy Season 2, work with the heroes against his partners and temporarily get what he wants, or work with his partners but possibly end up worse off.
 

Mrs Gordo

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Spike also wouldn't necessarily want Angelus back. With Angelus gone, Spike theoretically gets Dru to himself.
Yeah that's actually another good point. With Angelus gone Spike doesn't have to worry about the Angelus/Dru dynamic. So I don't understand why he would be motivated to help bring him back into the fold. But Spike would probably defer to whatever Dru wanted.

Anyway, I'll just say that I think the way it was written was perfect from my perspective. I think they really nailed ats s2.
 

DeadlyDuo

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Yeah that's actually another good point. With Angelus gone Spike doesn't have to worry about the Angelus/Dru dynamic. So I don't understand why he would be motivated to help bring him back into the fold. But Spike would probably defer to whatever Dru wanted.

Anyway, I'll just say that I think the way it was written was perfect from my perspective. I think they really nailed ats s2.
I agree, it's just that I would've liked to see all the Whirlwind back together in modern day in general.
 

AlphaFoxtrot

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Well, the original scheme was to get Angel that one moment of happiness. That's why we need Darla. Dru is needed, because the blood and soul of the Vampire Darla is in her, and she would rise as her former self, more or less. Spike isn't going to give Angel that one moment of happiness, and he probably can't turn Darla, or at least get the results W&H wants. Besides, I'm sure it would take a room full of lawyers for Spike to appear on Angel, it would take him off Buffy for a week, you get the drill.
 

DeadlyDuo

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Spike technically was in Season 2. He was in the flashback scenes of Darla, and they filmed those scenes twice rather than filming the same scene from different angles since there is small differences between the scenes shown in Darla and in Fool For Love.
 

DeadlyDuo

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I was disappointed that we never got to see some of Spike and Darla interaction in modern day.
I agree. I think the general consensus amongst the fandom is that Spike and Darla tolerated each other at best. Darla didn't seem to hold a high opinion of Spike, and Spike didn't give a damn about Darla.

Dru seems to be the glue that holds the Whirlwind together, without her they would've all gone their separate ways long before Angel's soul forced them apart.
 
FaithLehane16
FaithLehane16
I can see your point.

GreyWalker1958

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The Senior Partners were aware of the US government operating in UC Sunnydale and Spike's chip implant so having him wouldn't have worked even if they were to "promise" to remove it. Especially with him then enjoying hurting other vamps and demons as alt to humans. So that leaves Dru as the main option.

Plus Spike has 0 attachment to Darla anymore than the Master ever would about him or Angelus
 

Btvs fan

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Drusilla comes to LA to turn Darla into a vampire and they start the family up again basically as Darla continues to try to get Angel to also join them. Why wouldn't they have gotten Spike too. It's been a while since I've watch BTVS, so I was wondering. Does Spike already have the Chip? or was he just MIA?
Spike loathes Angelus "I prefer the old Buffy whipped Angel, this new improved version is not playing with a full deck"
There is not a chance in hell he would want him back. Especially after Becoming, you'd think Angelus would want payback for that.

I agree. I think the general consensus amongst the fandom is that Spike and Darla tolerated each other at best. Darla didn't seem to hold a high opinion of Spike, and Spike didn't give a damn about Darla.

Dru seems to be the glue that holds the Whirlwind together, without her they would've all gone their separate ways long before Angel's soul forced them apart.
"While Spike !, Spike was out killing a Slayer you were saving missionaries from me"

"We barely got out of London alive because of you. Everywhere we go it's the same story"

She doesn't exactly hold Spike in high regard imo
 
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