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Why do you think Cangel is forced?

AngelsCordy

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The question is above...:rolleyes:

For my part, I do not think that the relationship was forced in any way. But what is your opinion?
 

thrasherpix

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My headcanon is that Jasmine forced it, which explains Cordelia's reflection talking to her, especially as Jasmine knows Angel is about to go missing and doesn't want Cordelia to stick around until she knows he's safe. She has to make the sacrifice before she realizes the danger Angel is in so that Jasmine can take her.

That said, I don't know if the writers intended it or not. I will say the romantic angles rarely appeal to me in the Buffyverse or feel realistic to me. In fact, I often find the way they start ridiculous and often the breakups feel as forced as the start. Cangel is no different, save I got a headcanon that works for me.
 
BaskingINBangel
BaskingINBangel
I have the same head cannon.

RachM

I'm busy. I'm brooding.
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For me it came across as forced because the writers fell back on tell instead of show and altered Cordelia's entire character to make her suit Angel more as a romantic partner.

For two seasons Cordelia and Angel had a completely platonic relationship, in which they cared for one another and helped each other in various ways, but they never really understood one another properly or quite got each other's quirks and habits (Cordy not understanding Angel in To Shanshu or never understanding the Darla obsession, and Angel not knowing that Cordy's visions were taking such a toll on her that she stopped being social during the estrangement in Season 2). They were friends, but that was it.

Then suddenly, out of nowhere in Season 3, other characters start to talk about how they're "meant to be" and throwing around ridiculous terms like kyrumption, and insisting that they are the perfect match when they're actually just not. There's nothing worse than other characters telling two characters that they should be together, rather than the characters realizing their feelings of their own accord. Then we have Cordelia's ridiculous tunnel-vision when it comes to Angel post-Connor's-kidnapping, where she's so focused on Angel that she ignores Wesley, whom she's actually closer to than Angel. It OOC and smacks of sloppy writing.

Angel and Cordy had no build-up, no romantic tension and zero indication that they were anything but friends and there was really nothing between them to cement the relationship.
 

Cangel1987

♥ Cangel ♥ Spuffy ♥
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I think I'm one of the few who found the relationship attractive 🙂Maybe it's because my boyfriend and I were friends for years - before we fell in love. And for me it has a natural attraction for these private reasons, I feel drawn closer to Cangel because of my own experiences. And for me it was the most natural relationship in the whole fandom. But this is just my opinion.
 

Puppet

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I'm currently re-watching and am at the beginning of S2, and it's becoming super obvious just how the relationship between Angel and Cordy is and how much it's about to change in S3. Their 'connection' always felt super forced and the writers clearly needed to change both characters drastically just to make the pairing seem remotely believable. I wouldn't have minded the pairing whatsoever if it had been written in a believable way; they're both some of my favorite characters out of both shows and I love their friendship. But...it just didn't work for me.
 

AngelsCordy

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Thanks for you answers. For me, it was great that they took so long and take their time to make the next step.

I didn't thought it was awful that Lorne as well as Fred have made Cordelia and Angel aware of their feelings. Do not we all have such crazy but kind friends who want to open our eyes - because we do not see what's right in front of us?
 

RachM

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I didn't thought it was awful that Lorne as well as Fred have made Cordelia and Angel aware of their feelings. Do not we all have such crazy but kind friends who want to open our eyes - because we do not see what's right in front of us?
But ... if we're not seeing what's "right in front of us" then maybe there's a reason for that?

If there's a person whom you have been around for over two years, whom you like and enjoy the company of but have never felt a physical, sexual or romantic attraction to in those two years ... isn't that an indication that they're not the one for you, and if you need someone else to tell you that they are, then maybe you aren't meant for them?
 

AngelsCordy

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Maybe maybe not. This is different from each person. How the person feels about their feelings and how they handle it.

I do not know what you're thinking but just as I'm thinking about it now, for me it started to give evidence of the feelings just before Cordelia was sucked into Pylea. At least in my opinion.
 

thrasherpix

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Just wanted to point out that I'm friends with everyone before there's a spark. I don't have instant romantic attractions (perhaps it's why I tend to roll my eyes at instant attraction in shows and movies where they stare at each other for the first time but the background music makes it all romantic--though the same stare scene could have major creep factor with a different musical score). Even now I consider my BFF my (platonic) soul mate rather than my partner.

In one case we knew each other for years and I was sure that was going to be the one that would last until death do us part, though that, after years, was also the most painful breakup, the kind Joss revels in. (And come to think of it, that huge mistake of a relationship was also a big factor into what got me into Buffy and later Angel, and I let my hair return to its natural blonde state since that was desired, just as Cordy would go blonde for Angel...something I don't see Cordelia doing, btw, she'd play second fiddle for no one, even with her character growth. But Jasmine would be up for it...)
 

telperion66

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Look, Cordelia was the female lead of the show.. Angel was the male lead.. go figure...

I for one don't really mind the relationship they share. It has a more "mature" feel to it than the love Angel had for Buffy, as if its specifically meant for David Boreanaz after he's gotten a bit older as an actor, the same goes for Charisma. I do not think they would have been paired together in their younger years.

Episodes like "Waiting in the Wings" demonstrate how and why their relationship could have worked on a basic level, but I think the writers knew it was never going to be an "all-in" relationship like Bangel was, hence the appearance of the Groosalugg to stir things up a bit.
 

AngelsCordy

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Nobody says that Cangel would step in Bangel "shoes" I think each relationship is unique in their own way. Each has its up and downs. I only talk about Angel the series - in Sunnydale they was only stangers. But in Los Angeles they grow from strangers, to best friends and than falling in love with each other. But I find it unfair when some say words like it was rushed and feelt forced. And that`why I started this thread. I DONT wanted to post in Bangel vs. Cangel because I didnt wanted to start a ship battle.
 

white avenger

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I'm sure a lot of Bangel shippers are going to get very angry when I say this, but I think that Cangel is a much more realistic relationship than Bangel ever was or could be. It developed slowly, naturally, over the course of several Seasons. The Buffy/Angel love at first thing was just too much, too fast, and didn't hold up after Angel left Sunnydale.
 
thrasherpix
thrasherpix
While I enjoyed Bangel stories more, I do agree with you. But then I'm not that into Bangel.
Taake
Taake
I think Bangel shippers have heard it before
BaskingINBangel
BaskingINBangel
Nah, not angry over here. I totally disagree, but we all see things differently, and we all like what we like.
Mrs Gordo
Mrs Gordo
As Taake says, I hear this probably once a week and twice on Sunday lol.

DeadlyDuo

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I think Cangel is forced, however I think what makes it so forced is the Bangel background.

Had Cordelia been a completely new character for the Angel show, I think that, though it still wouldn't be ranked as highly as Bangel by fans, it would be less unpopular than it currently is. However, Cordelia was in Sunnydale and around for all the Bangel drama, particularly the Angelus saga which throws up a massive problem: Cordelia knows about Angelus and what it takes to bring him out and yet doesn't seem to care.

Because of Angel's curse, Angelus becomes kind of a marker in the relationship about how truly happy he is. Whilst it could be argued that Angel would be aware of what breaks the curse and so the worry over that would prevent him from having a moment of perfect happiness, he can't be on his guard all the time. All it would take is for him to slip up for one moment then Angelus is back. The fact that Angelus came out during the Bangel relationship show that Buffy made Angel truly happy, however it also means that Angel's ex gave him true happiness whereas Cordelia doesn't.

Cordelia would never play second-best to anyone, yet she'll always be second best to Buffy. Angel and Buffy still love each other and Angel expects to be the recipient of cookie Buffy. Neither has moved on from the other, it is literally the curse that is keeping them apart otherwise they'd be all over each other like a rash and Cordelia knows this!

Both Buffy and Darla have provoked a major reaction in Angel that comes with the lightning effect, Cordelia never did. If Angel's emotions were water, Buffy is boiling, Darla is frozen, and Cordelia is tepid.
 

The Bronze

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@RachM has covered most of it already.

I'd just add that Angel is still in exactly the same situation he was in with Buffy. He knows it, Cordelia knows it and yet it's more or less ignored for some reason. Also there's more romantic chemistry between the wall and the floor.
 

Taake

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What's been said.

And I agree that Cangel is pretty much the reason for the ruin of Cordelia's character, not because of the ship in itself, but because they felt like they had to change Cordelia. It was awkward to watch.

Because of Angel's curse, Angelus becomes kind of a marker in the relationship about how truly happy he is. Whilst it could be argued that Angel would be aware of what breaks the curse and so the worry over that would prevent him from having a moment of perfect happiness, he can't be on his guard all the time. All it would take is for him to slip up for one moment then Angelus is back.
I'd just add that Angel is still in exactly the same situation he was in with Buffy. He knows it, Cordelia knows it and yet it's more or less ignored for some reason.
I really wish they would've tried to deal with the curse, cause it bothers me to that they just kind of stare at the clouds and pretends its not there.
It's kind of crazy, when you think about it, that it took them FIVE seasons to have a conversation where Wesley tells Angel it is unlikely he'll achieve perfect happiness again. Season 1 would've been too soon, season 2 is all about Darla, so really season 3 would've been a great time to try to deal with it more head on.
 

The Bronze

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It's kind of crazy, when you think about it, that it took them FIVE seasons to have a conversation where Wesley tells Angel it is unlikely he'll achieve perfect happiness again.
Not only was it not really dealt with up until here when they do get around to it they end up making Wesley look like a plank: "Bang who you like Angel it'll probably be alright, what's the worst that could happen?"
 

BaskingINBangel

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Ok, so I'm not going to sit here and make a post about the multitude of reasons why Cangel is my least favorite romantic pairing in the verse. Because, I'm just so over arguing about ships. Been there, done that, it never ends well. Besides, we all like what we like, and most of the time we aren't going to sway the other person.

So, to answer your question about why Cangel feels forced...I'm going to try to keep it short and sweet. I agree with, and have to echo many of the above posts. For me, it feels forced because it literally is forced. The writers have implied many times that these two are strictly platonic, and think of each other as family. It's almost as if the romance comes out of nowhere, with no build up, and they have to be told by other people that they have feelings for each other. That just doesn't work for me. Also, are we just supposed to ignore the fact that relationships on this level have been shown to be pretty near impossible for Angel, with the whole true happiness thing? I just can't believe that either character would risk that, even if they did feel something for each other. It doesn't make sense that either of them would be intentionally reckless like that.

And then there is the fact that, I simply do not feel any romantic chemistry whatsoever between those two, when I'm watching. This is pretty huge for me. I need to at least be able to see or feel some kind of romantic chemistry between the two characters to get me invested in the relationship. Without that, it feels forced to me.
 
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AngelsCordy

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I do not think it was rushed and forced - for me it was the most natural relationship in the whole fandom. It took them years to get there. I mean they started as strangers, went over to be friends and falling in love. Of course, the same conditions apply for Cordelia as for Buffy. Only Nina is the exception - as we have determined that the curse does not start.

And by the way Cordelia would HAVE NEVER been the "The runner up or be the second best to Buffy! " In a love there is not a NUMBER either you love someone or you do not love him/her.

As I said a few post above here. I DIDNT post it into Bangel vs. Cangel with intention ! Because I didnt wanted to start a ship battle. But you did it again and turned it into one. And it has nothing to do with the couples, but the shippers. Why do you always have to turn everything into a battle ship - if someone ask a simple question?
 
thrasherpix
thrasherpix
Just in case that's to my comment, it came off to me that she went blonde because Angel obviously likes blondes, and I don't see Cordelia doing that for anyone. That aside, I LOVED where Cordy promised him he'd never have perfect happiness with her.

WillowFromBuffy

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It is one season of will they, won't they, and then one season of Cordelia acting like a maniac. I rarely slut shame, but evil!Cordelia is the most perverse, conniving and manipulative monster of a woman I have ever seen on TV. Then there is the reveal that their whole relationship was a part of Jasmine's plan, which explains why Cordelia sees that weird vision of her future self in the mirror (I guess Jasmine was starting to get desperate at that point).

I've always assumed most Cangel fans fell in love with the idea of the pairing, before it became explicit in the text. I love the idea of them. I didn't need it to happen, but I would have been there for it if it did. By season 3, their chemistry was so well established that any group of machine typing monkeys could have written a better love story for them than what we actually saw.

Their goodbye in S5 is absolutely beautiful, though.
 

BaskingINBangel

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I do not think it was rushed and forced - for me it was the most natural relationship in the whole fandom. It took them years to get there. I mean they started as strangers, went over to be friends and falling in love
See, for some of you, it feels natural. I completely understand that. But for whatever reason, that doesn't translate on screen for me when I'm watching those two interact. Maybe it's David and Charisma just not vibing on screen for me. I don't know, but their romantic interactions feel awkward and unnatural to me.

And by the way Cordelia would HAVE NEVER been the "The runner up or be the second best to Buffy! "
I completely agree with that. Which is another reason why the relationship feels forced to me, and I can't reason it out in my brain.

Either I say that Angel could love Cordy as much as he loves Buffy, (which is fine) but if I do that, then the risk of him losing his soul is there once again. Which would make both characters intentionally reckless, and out of character, imo, as they are both fully aware of what happens when he experiences true happiness.

Or, I have to say that she can't give him true happiness, either because he's not really in love with her, or he doesn't love her as much as he loved Buffy, which then makes the threat of him losing his soul no longer there. This also sort of doesn't work in my brain, for quite a few reasons, and I can't see Cordy even remotely accepting that scenario.
 
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