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Why do you think Cangel is forced?

Cangel1987

♥ Cangel ♥ Spuffy ♥
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Messages
240
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Germany
I've always assumed most Cangel fans fell in love with the idea of the pairing, before it became explicit in the text. I love the idea of them. I didn't need it to happen, but I would have been there for it if it did. By season 3, their chemistry was so well established that any group of machine typing monkeys could have written a better love story for them than what we actually saw.
For me it began already before it started in the series in season one around the time after IWRY and post Doyle.
 

AngelsCordy

Townie
Joined
Jul 20, 2019
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37
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32
I'm so open to almost every couple, I say almost every couple. There are some that I do not like among others Xander/Dawn and Angel/Illyria. That are the couples where I throw my hands up in despair. These 2 couples makes absolutely no sense.

It started for me already in Sunnydale - but not as strong as in the first season of Angel. The good thing is that everyone has a different taste and the tastes are different. For me they had chemistry :) But it is good that everyone has their own opinion.
 

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
Joined
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29
Either I say that Angel could love Cordy as much as he loves Buffy, (which is fine) but if I do that, then the risk of him losing his soul is there once again. Which would make both characters intentionally reckless, and out of character, imo, as they are both fully aware of what happens when he experiences true happiness.

Or, I have to say that she can't give him true happiness, either because he's not really in love with her, or he doesn't love her as much as he loved Buffy, which then makes the threat of him losing his soul no longer there. This also sort of doesn't work in my brain, for quite a few reasons, and I can't see Cordy even remotely accepting that scenario.
Exactly. This is why the Bangel background causes problems for Cangel, because Cordy was there to witness it all. She knows about the curse, therefore she knows the risks involved, yet it seems to get ignored.
 

RachM

I'm busy. I'm brooding.
Joined
Nov 8, 2017
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1,151
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Australia
As I said a few post above here. I DIDNT post it into Bangel vs. Cangel with intention ! Because I didnt wanted to start a ship battle. But you did it again and turned it into one. And it has nothing to do with the couples, but the shippers. Why do you always have to turn everything into a battle ship - if someone ask a simple question?
No one's turning this into a Cangel vs Bangel thing, but you asked for reasons why people found Cangel to be forced, and for some people those reasons are tied to the echo of/shadow of Bangel hanging over the pairing. You can't expect any thread you create to rigidly stay within the bounds of what you personally want and get so put out when it doesn't. That's kind of the whole point of discussion boards, that people discuss topics, which means that other factors may be brought into said discussion.
 

AngelsCordy

Townie
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37
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Nobody ignores the curse of Angel - read a few post above. I didn't say that these requirement does not apply to Cordelia - I have only say these conditions did not apply to Nina - since she didnt make him that happy apparently and fortunately..So the relationship between Nina and Angel is okay - because Nina was not there to know it or how?

I still wonder where the relationship was forced at all because for me it was the most natural relationship in the whole fandom. Bangel was special. And me likes both ships. For me Bangel but unlike Cangel it felt like a fairy tale. At least according to my opinion.
 

Ethan Reigns

Scooby
Joined
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Messages
6,286
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Canada
Sineya
I get the fear that a moment of happiness could unleash Angelus but as we saw with Buffy when it did happen, neither Angel nor Buffy were aware of the curse. Angel certainly would not have wanted to risk alienating Buffy. I think the situation is now that he knows about the "moment of happiness" curse, he could never reach that moment again with anyone, not just Buffy or Cordelia. It is also clear that in Season 7 of Buffy, he is waiting for Buffy's cookie dough to bake and in IWRY, he achieves the prefect day that he wanted. It would be impossible for a relationship with Cordelia to make any sense since he was still pining away for Buffy.

I don't have any objection to Cordelia and Angel hooking up - it's just that they both know there's somewhere he'd rather be. As for the chemistry between Angel and Cordelia, they seem to be like neon and argon - neither pairs up with anything else.
 

NeddaSai

Potential
Joined
Jun 22, 2011
Messages
220
Cangel was my favorite relationship in early AtS because it felt so familial and platonic.. I loved that!

And it did feel forced for me because Angel never seemed to address the fact that he can't have a relationship with her, he was running around like he was in a sitcom without any fear for the consequences of what might happen if they *did* become an item, just a simple "..but I can never be with her cause of the curse" would've been sufficient but they wanted to ignore all of that for the sake of adding a romance in the show. They wanted the romance without considering the characters and that, to me, seemed forced!
 

Mrs Gordo

Bangel extremist...
Joined
Jul 11, 2017
Messages
4,035
Location
Texas
Black Thorn
Nobody says that Cangel would step in Bangel "shoes" I think each relationship is unique in their own way.
While you say you don't want to turn this into a ship war, it's impossible to address Cangel without Bangel in context precisely because of the forced and unnatural way they went about trying to execute Cangel. I understand that many people would have loved the gradual friends to lovers progression of Cangel but that is not what the writers went for. Instead, they turned the perfectly wonderful Cordelia and Angel dynamic on its head and suddenly started using words like "kyrumption" and "moira" talking about how they were both warriors for good and it was "written in the stars." And one cannot ignore the Bangel-like parallels that this brings up. Angel has already had that destined, grand love story with Buffy. IWRY is in large part about how their sacred duties prevent them from being together, how they *don't belong to themselves, they belong in the world fighting.* So when they twist Cangel into some strange version of what Angel had with Buffy - it simply does not work for many fans. And it's nearly impossible to ask fans NOT to compare it to Bangel, which was a very well-executed version of this type of soul-mate/great love trope. (Nevermind that Angel and Cordelia's characters were both changed to make them more compatible - Cordelia losing some of her trademark harshness, Angel becoming more light-hearted...etc - but I think those things have been addressed before.)

This is why, while I have many MANY issues with spuffy as a ship, I at least applaud the writers in coming up with a completely unique (and captivating if I'm being honest) progression of a relationship between Buffy and Spike. (With some exception in the s7 parallels to Angel's story). I think it's well-executed storytelling even if I'm not a big fan of the story. With Cangel, I'm both not a fan of the story and I think it's poorly written. That's a double whammy.

But in Los Angeles they grow from strangers, to best friends and than falling in love with each other.
I would just like to add that - we really don't really see them "falling in love" with each other. We see them, as friends, then suddenly it's "wait do I have feelings for her?" and then before you can say supercalifragilisticexpialidocious Groo shows up and Connor is abducted and the story shifts away from them. By the time we come back to it, Cordy isn't herself and Angel doesn't know how to answer her question of "were we in love?" To me, this is a story of "what could've been" and that is precisely what 'Your Welcome' references. They never got a chance to find out what they had, how they felt, and they never even got a chance to BE in a relationship. And if I was a big fan of the dynamic (which to be fair - I'm not), I would certainly understand shipping it from that perspective. But it's unfortunate that the story they did tell was clunky at best.
 

Cangel1987

♥ Cangel ♥ Spuffy ♥
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Messages
240
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Why should they talk about it again in the series, if you know exactly what could happen? As an example: The topic would not be discussed with Darla and everything was fine ... I think it would have been rather bored - to talk over and over again the same topic.
 

Cangel1987

♥ Cangel ♥ Spuffy ♥
Joined
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Messages
240
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Germany
It does not matter if it's the past, present, or future - it should count for everyone Darla, Buffy, Cordelia und Nina and not just bend as it suits you.
 

BaskingINBangel

"Peanut butter, preferably crunchy!"
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242
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35
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Nevada
Why should they talk about it again in the series, if you know exactly what could happen?
Because it's literally a significant part of Angel's character profile. It has to be addressed when discussing potential love interests for his character.

As an example: The topic would not be discussed with Darla and everything was fine
When Darla was brought back in s2, she wasn't brought back solely to become a serious love interest for Angel. And it actually was addressed with Darla, in "Epiphany."

It was also addressed with Nangel, on more than one occasion.

It was even addressed with Fred in "Carpe Noctem," only a few episodes before Cangel really starts to pick up.
Yet it's never touched on at any point with Cangel. At least not that I can recall.
 

Ethan Reigns

Scooby
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6,286
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Sineya
When Angel runs into Cordelia at the party, the first thing she asks is, "Are you still Grrr?" She is aware that he has the possibility of turning into Angelus and her time with the scoobies would have confirmed that and no doubt Xander would have told her about the moment of happiness clause. It is never brought up because she already knows about it.
 

AngelsCordy

Townie
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Jul 20, 2019
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37
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32
Nangel, I do not count that relationship. Nina was just a filler and nothing serious. I'm ignoring now "Kyrumption" and "Moira". As well as "Soulmates" because I think it's not important. I already shipped them when Cangel wasnt even on the paper back in season 1. That`s why I liked the way they did that's why I like the strangers to friends and then falls in love. The growing of their relationship. Back in season 2 when Cordelia was sucked in Pylea. And Angel wanted to have her back, as well as Lilah agonized Cordelia with her visions and so on. That's why I can not understand why others rushed. In my view it's the best relationship in the whole fandom. In my opinion.
 

katmobile

Scooby
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Jun 17, 2018
Messages
778
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47
See, for some of you, it feels natural. I completely understand that. But for whatever reason, that doesn't translate on screen for me when I'm watching those two interact. Maybe it's David and Charisma just not vibing on screen for me. I don't know, but their romantic interactions feel awkward and unnatural to me.



I completely agree with that. Which is another reason why the relationship feels forced to me, and I can't reason it out in my brain.

Either I say that Angel could love Cordy as much as he loves Buffy, (which is fine) but if I do that, then the risk of him losing his soul is there once again. Which would make both characters intentionally reckless, and out of character, imo, as they are both fully aware of what happens when he experiences true happiness.

Or, I have to say that she can't give him true happiness, either because he's not really in love with her, or he doesn't love her as much as he loved Buffy, which then makes the threat of him losing his soul no longer there. This also sort of doesn't work in my brain, for quite a few reasons, and I can't see Cordy even remotely accepting that scenario.
There is a third solution that he will never experience true happiness because he's aware of the consequences. For him that shadow is always going to be there when he experienced it before it wasn't.
 

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
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29
There is a third solution that he will never experience true happiness because he's aware of the consequences. For him that shadow is always going to be there when he experienced it before it wasn't.
Angel can't be on his guard all the time, all it takes is just one moment. Notice how Angel didn't lose his soul during sex with Buffy but when they were both lying fast asleep in each others arms. Sure, Angel didn't know about the curse then, but when a person wakes up, they're not quite with it first thing.

Angel could wake up, see the woman he loves asleep in his arms and feel happy, then boom! His soul is gone.
 
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