Why does everyone agree that Tara is Willow's soulmate?

[Buffy Summers]

Guys let's please stick to the topic Start a new thread if you want to discuss other things

 

[Iwearthecheese]

I don't really believe in 'soulmates'. A person can love one person when they're younger, and then a different person at a different stage of thier life and then somebody else- love is a journey *soft guitar music starts playing* Shh! Be quiet, I'm making a point.

...Anyway Willow loved Oz her first love (as in the guy she loved and loved her back), his leaving was to her what the crushing emotional weight of Bangel was to Buffy.
No doubt about that, I think but Willow didn't go looking for somebody else- that's the difference between her and Buffy- she just 'happened upon' that person.

That person was Tara. Willow had much more in common with Tara. Wheras Oz noticed pursued Willow in high school (not in a creepy way or anything but he initiated it) Tillow was more organic. Maybe when people say 'soulmate' that's what they mean, Willow/Tara 'clicked' more with each other than Woz did, thier 'courtship' was more gentle (because it was one of those things that *whispers* 'the WB didn't want you to know about'...).
I think some parts of Willow's personality were more at home and secure with Tara than with Oz...but I'm not sure if that was anything to do with Tara herself or just Willow growing as a person. I personally think the latter.

The problem with Tillow- for me- was that Willow and Tara had utterly different views on magic. Tara learned it from her mother, she'd no doubt grown up with it and been taught about balance, nature, laws and history, and so on.

Willow has a more practical view. Something needs battling? Then I'll be useful with the magics and we all fight it 'cause I'm a Scoobie.
Something need fixing about me? I'll try magic because that's the application of knowledge to fix a fixable problem. Like a maths test or something. This is Willow's intellect and emotional immaturity at work (and also her arrogance)- she always solves things because she's very smart.
Something needs fixing about somebody else? Well I'll just use magic to fix it. They'll be better off afterall; alive again or happier or not angry with me...
Slippery slope- using her power for good, then for menial, then for selfish, then for evil...

The two times we saw Tara abuse magic were firstly when she thought her family were going to take her away (everyone was going to see her evilness i.e her 'gayness') and the second time in Bargaining when they all resurrect Buffy. Tara goes along with Willow even though she knows that it goes agains thte natural order of things. But because its a magical death (that sounds like Willow reasoning right there) and Buffy is in hell, then she goes along with it.

Willow 'abuses' magic a lot, a quick fix, a lot, causes trouble with it, a lot.
The only reason this balances out at all is that she's really good and useful with the whole magic thing, quickly outstripping Tara within a year of study 'I tinkered with the tinkerbell.' etc. She's key in that area (although I think Willow's more valuable as a compassionate friend but the writers stopped focusing on this in later seasons)

Anyway, things come to a head (to put it mildly). Tillow breaks up, Willow is in denial about hurting Tara (hardly something you'd think about your soulmate) and then finally hits rock bottom when she goes overboard, meets a truly bad magic-person (Rack) and has a nasty wake-up call.
Wilow's first thought isn't to get Tara back, its to get better on her own and be worthy of consideration by Tara again- that's important- and then slowly they rekindle their relationship.
When Tara is taken from her again Willow regresses absolutely (and realistically) and tries to fix things with magic. She succeeds with Buffy and fails with Tara. Finally something that she desperately needs to fix and she can't.
We know what happens next, we all saw it in 'Tough Love'. Warren is no god and Willow has crossed too msny lines since then, channeled darker forces, and so she kills him, slowly and sadistically.
But the pain is still there so she'll do the rest of them, total vengeance- and goes on a rampage looking for release. The last lines are blurred, no lives matter between her and her vengeance, the power corrupts and Willow is lost.

I guess the point I'm trying to make here is that Willow- this Willow- would've done the same thing if Oz had been killed here. The vengeance was more about where Willow was than what happened to Tara.
That sucks in a way for those who like Tara but I think its true.


Willow/Kennedy...I don't mind Kennedy's personality exactly, but I do see that their relationship as nothing more than a by-product of their surroundings. Looming apocalypse (the worst ever) danger around every corner, ignored by her friends (or at least Buffy), haunted by the things she did, afraid of her own power that is now part of her, and needing support. Kennedy is there for Willow, confident in herself and ignorant of Willow's past crimes, so Willow is drawn to her.
I guess that makes sense- I think if there hadn't been the Big bad end of the worlds then Willow would've taken a lot longer to move on than she did, and I think she would've picked a different somebody.

Somebody who was a bit less pushy and bit softer around the edges, somebody who could identify with the whole 'going dark and killing people' thing. About abusing the power and so forth. Tara was never that, which is why she could never really understand the Willow of S7.

I think that's why I see Willow differently in a way from Buffy or Xander. Buffy kisses Angel in S7 like she hasn't changed at all from they last saw each other, and there's no real reason why Xander and Cordelia couldn't have gotten back together (if Cordelia hadn't been in a coma and even remotely interested), Xander had grown, gotten 'better' and matured, but he was the same basic guy.

But just like after Oz left (only less extreme obviously) Willow has changed and moved on- which is why I think Willow's love life on the show was like a journey. I can't imagine Willow with anybody except the person she was with at that time.

*ramble ramble*...And now I'm done.

 

[ChaseRules]

I heart Tillow but I see where you coming from. Willow was going to use magic on Veruca when she thought she was going after Oz .
What you said about Kennedy is what I been saying about her as well so looks like we agree there .

Lastly I think that Willow had to lose Tara because there always a price to pay with Magic & she was the price she had to pay
& while we on the subject she could have at least dug Buffy up instead of leaving her in the ground

 

[Blair]

Hmmm... I can see where you're coming from with some points. Magic was what started Tillow's relationship and had destroyed it. Keep in mind that soulmates don't mean that they become the same person. That was one of the only things that they didn't agree on. And we then learnt that for Willow it was an addiction, whereas Tara had a balance and was very aware of the ethics of using magic.

People do change over time- Tara had changed over the two years too. She became a lot of more confident and took on a somewhat mother role for Dawn. I really believe that if Tara had come back, Willow would look at Tara the same way as when she first met her and fallen in love all over again.

 

[ChaseRules]

I believe that Willow was going to . And I think that one reason she went dark was knowing that she wasted all that time away from Tara .

 

[Iwearthecheese]

Magic was what started Tillow's relationship and had destroyed it. Keep in mind that soulmates don't mean that they become the same person. That was one of the only things that they didn't agree on.

It was more Willow's view of magic more than anything. Magic isn't inherently evil- some of it is dark but most of it (true essence of magic) is part of nature- but its the way Willow used it that led towards her darker actions.
The magic= drug addiction is a smoke screen metaphor I'm glad the writers ditched in S7.

And we then learnt that for Willow it was an addiction, whereas Tara had a balance and was very aware of the ethics of using magic.

This is partly their personality though, Tara was taught about magic from a young age by her mother, Willow pretty much guided herself (very quickly) during the high school years- it was more knowledge for her to gain so she could help people (and later help herself).

People do change over time- Tara had changed over the two years too.

But taking a life? Badly hurting your friends? Trying to destroy the world? Those are big lines that Willow crossed, and whilst Tara can be really empathetic as a character thant only goes so far.
See Tara's reaction to Buffy sleeping with Spike- she showed compassion but she didn't understand it and tried to rationalize 'Do you love him? It's okay if you do, he's done a lot of good, etc'
Tara could comfort S7 Willow but she could never understand that darkness in her.
But then again neither could Kennedy which is why they were never really as close as Woz or Tillow.

 

[ChaseRules]

This is partly their personality though, Tara was taught about magic from a young age by her mother, Willow pretty much guided herself (very quickly) during the high school years- it was more knowledge for her to gain so she could help people (and later help herself).

I also think that Willow never really thought about the side effects like Tara did . And if she did she was arrogant enough to think she could get around it.

But taking a life? Badly hurting your friends? Trying to destroy the world? Those are big lines that Willow crossed, and whilst Tara can be really empathetic as a character thant only goes so far.
See Tara's reaction to Buffy sleeping with Spike- she showed compassion but she didn't understand it and tried to rationalize 'Do you love him? It's okay if you do, he's done a lot of good, etc'
Tara could comfort S7 Willow but she could never understand that darkness in her.
But then again neither could Kennedy which is why they were never really as close as Woz or Tillow.

I think she could comfort Willow & understand why she did it .
Kennedy couldn't & didn't know Willow before so that a reason they were ever really close.

 

[LeeJones41]

I don't know if Tara was Willow's soulmate. I don't believe in the concept of "soulmate". I think every relationship requires hard work. And sometimes, even if two people truly love each other. There is no guarantee that relationship will work. I think the concept of "soulmate" is an illusion and nothing else.

 

[ChaseRules]

True in a sense but I think Willow & Tara had a healthy relationship compared to what was going on around them .

 

[Mrs Gordo]

I don't know if Tara was Willow's soulmate. I don't believe in the concept of "soulmate". I think every relationship requires hard work. And sometimes, even if two people truly love each other. There is no guarantee that relationship will work. I think the concept of "soulmate" is an illusion and nothing else.

I don't believe in the concept of a soul mate IRL. But the buffyverse mythology is very big on souls and soul canon. It is not a stretch for soulmates to exist within the realm of that story. So in the buffyverse, I think soulmates are a thing. There are some buffy viewing books that are "official" that discuss the concept of soulmates for example. But, that being said, I don't think having a soulmate in the buffyverse means that the relationship will work out.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

The soulmate is a lot more common than you think, but it is not always a good thing. Soulmates are people who have been together in some capacity (family members, buddies or business partners) in previous lives who have unresolved issues to work out and who reincarnate at a time, situation and location where both will meet each other. The unresolved issues can be a huge problem - if one of two soulmates had committed a serious crime against the other, finding a soulmate in this lifetime will not lead to happiness. It could be like meeting your own personal vengeance demon.

In this sense, Willow and Tara appear to be soulmates. They are in a situation where they meet each other. Their souls seem to recognize each other immediately and they work together (in the case where they meet, to raise barriers in "Hush") like they have been doing it all their lives. This does not mean the relationship is perfect and in this case both Tara and Willow show signs of a power struggle.

 

[Anyanka Bunny Slayer]

I never thought they were soul mates, but they WERE super cute together.

 

[DeepBlueJoy]

I don't know how old most of you guys are, but Queen singer Freddie Mercury is an example of a gay man who nevertheless dearly loved a woman, who was by his side through the illness (AIDS) that killed him. Life is not neat. Just because he was gay, doesn't mean he couldn't love a woman. Our society (even 20 years ago, which is when this show was on the air) was quite hostile to homosexuality, and I know people who locked themselves away from their own feelings for the same sex, got married and had kids, raised families and yes, loved their opposite sex partner dearly... but were still not BI, not straight, but actually were gay. It's getting easier. Now, people can ask their same sex partner to the prom, and there are schools where this might actually be allowed... certainly, family are more supportive. But... back when the show was on, and being written by people who would have grown up with an even less friendly experience of what it was to grow up gay... Well, the scenario with Oz is just not that far out.

Here is Oz, he's interested in Willow. It is easy for both of them to go with the flow.
Why? He's a were. She's gay.

OZ:
Willow attracts him already, b/c she's smart, and smart people have a hard time finding other smart people that like them. Then one day, suddenly, he's a werewolf, and suddenly, his options narrow a great deal.
WILLOW:
Willow may be questioning (or ignoring) her sexuality... or really doesn't have words for her feelings b/c society can be so good at pushing 'straightness' as the 'default sexual identity' that people may take a while to recognize what they're feeling is actually different from their what their friends are feeling.

I would hazard that someone like Willow would not have gotten ANY interest from boys, because they may not have known she was gay, but they knew she wasn't really interested 'that way' -- even if she didn't. (It was interest that she would honestly have wanted -- b/c everyone wants to be validated as attractive and as being like all their peers).

I think her interest in Xander is more 'romantic' in the fairytale sense... Every girl grows up believing she will marry her prince charming... She puts that on Xander b/c they're friends, and he is someone she feels safe with... and no one else is interested...

People don't know they have gaydar, but most of us do, to some degree. We don't always have a name for it, but a boy knows when a girl is REALLY not interested... He may not know if a straight girl likes him... but if a girl doesn't look at him, at all... many guys will pick up on it.

Straight people look at/notice your body when they interact with the opposite sex. Gay people look at your body when they interact with the same sex. It doesn't matter if they're the pope or your boss or celibate. Most of us do it without even recognizing it.

I grew up in a right handed world - and learned to write with my right hand -- it never occurred to me that I was left handed, until I began to date a left handed guy in high school... and he recognized that other than writing, (which I still don't do well) I did almost everything else left handed. It was then I taught myself to write left handed (I now write terribly with both hands). No one FORCED me to be left handed. They just put the pen in my right hand. They didn't ask why I failed hand writing repeatedly (and got punished for it) -- I was just 'bad at it'.

My point? Sexuality can be like that. I knew as a teen that I was somewhat attracted to women, though not as much as to men... did i identify as bi? no, but instinctively, I just didn't have very many female friends for a lot of years, partly because my feelings made me uncomfortable.

It took years for me to call myself bisexual... I did tell people I trusted I 'knew what kind of women I found attractive'... So... Oz. not really that much of a surprise. Everyone wants to be loved. Had Oz and Willow never broken up, I think they could have gone on to be 'moderately happy'... unless Tara had showed up at some point and gotten Willow's attention. I think there's a lot of people who are 'settling' for 'good enough' in the world... and most of them aren't miserable... but many of them probably wonder from time to time what it would be like to find the grand passion...

As for 'soul mate'? I think Tara was likely Willow's soulmate... but Willow stepped over the bounds of decency and ultimate, did not deserve the love of someone as decent and kind as Tara. Why do I say she was? First, because of the passion between them, the obvious, joyful connection... they had bliss. If it wasn't soulmates, it was pretty darn close to it.

And I say soulmates for another reason, because when Willow lost Oz, she wasn't lost, she was angry and humiliated... and I think afraid she couldn't find another man, b/c he was the only man she'd ever been able to have a relationship with. By contrast, when Willow lost Tara, it broke her. It tore her soul... it made her lose her mind for a bit.

Could she love someone else again? Of course. Can it be the great love? I honestly don't know. Didn't see it in Kennedy. I think Kennedy was an opportunist. Any lesbian port in a storm... The end of the world? Big ass storm!! A lot of people would be hooking up... Wood and Faith, anyone?

 

[ChaseRules]

The soulmate is a lot more common than you think, but it is not always a good thing. Soulmates are people who have been together in some capacity (family members, buddies or business partners) in previous lives who have unresolved issues to work out and who reincarnate at a time, situation and location where both will meet each other. The unresolved issues can be a huge problem - if one of two soulmates had committed a serious crime against the other, finding a soulmate in this lifetime will not lead to happiness. It could be like meeting your own personal vengeance demon.

In this sense, Willow and Tara appear to be soulmates. They are in a situation where they meet each other. Their souls seem to recognize each other immediately and they work together (in the case where they meet, to raise barriers in "Hush") like they have been doing it all their lives. This does not mean the relationship is perfect and in this case both Tara and Willow show signs of a power struggle.

So in this case then what was the issues they had unresolved to work out then . Curious

 

[Ethan Reigns]

So in this case then what was the issues they had unresolved to work out then . Curious

In their case, I would say dominance and control issues. They also both had issues with feelings of inadequacy which were helped by each other's presence but their interactions with each other are the key issue.

 

[Scooby Corps]

Why does everyone agree that Tara is Willow's soulmate?

If anyone actually think Tara isn't Willow's soulmate, please I'd love to hear your opinions!

At your service,

I don't agree with the premise of soulmates to begin with. Therefore I don't agree that Tara (or Oz or Kennedy or Xander or whoever) is her soulmate. At least not by the common conception (leaving out any scientific/theological/philosophical/hobby-theoretical approaches that may exist) -- two specific, unique, exceptional to each other people that are "destined" to be with each other and who are their *only* and *true* shot at happiness to each other. It's an exclusive, narrow-minded, quite narcissistic ideal. A little repulsing in its self-aggrandizement and automatically diminishing of other potential love interests as well as unnecessarily self-restricting in pursuing fulfillment in life. So Tara dies and Willow is doomed to unhappiness, or, at least, isn't allowed the same amount of happiness she had with Tara? Kennedy or anyone else is intrinsically not "worthy" to be Special Snowflake Tara's successor? Was Oz just a warm-up exercise for the *true* thing? Nah.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

I believe in soulmates but not in the idea that they are exclusive (people have unfinished business from previous lives with a lot of people) nor that soulmates are necessarily happy with each other. There is nothing more self-aggrandizing about it than the idea that you have people you know and people you don't know. You can't leave out the theological concept and expect to get the same answer - for soulmates to exist, there has to be a soul and the soul returns many times in many lives of both genders and many nationalities and races and souls who have mutual debts come together again to settle those debts.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

Kennedy or anyone else is intrinsically not "worthy" to be Special Snowflake Tara's successor?

Kennedy certainly wasn't "worthy", Fred on the other hand would've been a good successor. I think people assign the term "soulmates" as another word to mean OTP (one true pairing), so in that regard Tara was Willow's OTP/soulmate because she was irreplaceable in many people's eyes.

Shoehorning Kennedy in was not a good move.

 

[ChaseRules]

Kennedy certainly wasn't "worthy", Fred on the other hand would've been a good successor. I think people assign the term "soulmates" as another word to mean OTP (one true pairing), so in that regard Tara was Willow's OTP/soulmate because she was irreplaceable in many people's eyes.

Shoehorning Kennedy in was not a good move.

I like that idea . Fred would have been a good " successor" to Tara. I really liked Tara but if I had to pick someone Fred would be a great choice . Fred & Willow had things in common & also Fred had a history . Kennedy on the other hand just showed up & before you know it she Willow girlfriend .