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Why don't you like season 5?

Why don't you like season 5?

  • Change of location

    Votes: 2 28.6%
  • Lack of Cordelia

    Votes: 4 57.1%
  • Spike joining

    Votes: 2 28.6%
  • Other

    Votes: 2 28.6%

  • Total voters
    7

nightshade

Your grandfather is a cat
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Black Thorn
For those that don't like season 5, what is the main reason that you don't enjoy it?

I've included three reasons that are often said, but please state why especially if it's something else.
 
Joined
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I thought this season more than any other emphasises the over-arching plot...it was buffy at its most generic imo. The previous seasons had a lot of subversions and smart commentary but I felt it lacking here...the only other season that has the same problem is season seven. The focus is on grandiose battles and legends but there isn't actually a whole lot of substance beneath all the bombastic fight scenes and crackling hell dimensions...

What saves it is Glory. She's a great villain and not the cardboard cutout she seems...she makes up for Cordelia's loss too. Buffy even compared them: "she's kinda like Cordelia"

Btw you forgot to put dawn in your poll. She is a big reason people hate this season
 
nightshade
nightshade
Umm wrong season 5
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@nightshade oh sorry. I just realised it's angel.

Angel season 5 is actually my favourite season of that show...even the loss of Cordelia is lessened s bit by her memorable cameo.
 

nightshade

Your grandfather is a cat
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@nightshade you don't have to agree with my opinion...but I do think season 5 of Buffy is the closest thing you'll find to a generic fantasy plot in the ya section of a bookstop. Still better television than most shows though...and Glory is probably my favourite big bad next to Dark Willow!
No, but this is asking about Angel season 5 and not Buffy season 5 which you posted about.
 

Btvs fan

Scooby
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I like S5 but for arguments sake Lindsey scheme makes no sense.
First He gives the amulet to Wolfram and Hart to give to Angel knowing he will give it to Buffy who will then give it to Spike. Theres some WTF right there
He then digs it up and delivers it to Angel. Then waits 7 episodes before making Spike corporeal then sending Angel and Spike on a wild goose chase which does nothing but alert them to Serk a hidden agent.
He reveals himself to Spike using the naked Doyle. Its lucky for him the writers forgot Spike met Doyle. He sends Spike on missions though I'm not sure how he knows of them ie Dana but lets leave that since the writers leave it too.
He then sets the dream squid creature on Angel only to send Spike to rescue him. This makes them suspicious of Eve.
He also sends Spike to kill Cordy for well reasons I guess ...
But this is all irrelevant because his plan was to release a squid monster that W&H have locked away in case Angel turns on them. Which we don't see in the finale 🤷‍♂️

That in a nutshell is Lindsey's plan !
 

Puppet

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Black Thorn
I like S5 but for arguments sake Lindsey scheme makes no sense.
First He gives the amulet to Wolfram and Hart to give to Angel knowing he will give it to Buffy who will then give it to Spike. Theres some WTF right there
I would, personally, disagree with this one. Lindsey learned what W&H was planning and planted the amulet (possibly through Eve) as a way to get rid of Angel. I don't think Lindsey expected Buffy to give it to Spike, because Spike isn't someone who's ever been important or noted to them (them being the lawyers). It's arguable that Lindsey even knew Spike had been souled before the sacrifice occurred. Then, when Angel didn't wear the amulet, Lindsey was forced to come up with a Plan B.
 

white avenger

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First He gives the amulet to Wolfram and Hart to give to Angel knowing he will give it to Buffy who will then give it to Spike. Theres some WTF right there
But wasn't W&H's original plan for Angel to wear the amulet, then him be the one incorporeal and chained to the LA area, in hopes that they could use making him solid again as some sort of bargaining chip? Buffy taking the amulet, then choosing Spike as her Champion instead of Angel came completely out of left field. As far as they knew, apparently, the only ones qualified to wear the amulet would have been either Angel or Faith, and it was a pretty good bet that Buffy wouldn't trust Faith enough at that point to let her do the honors. Up until then, it wasn't common knowledge that Spike had regained his soul, so he wouldn't have been considered as being worthy to wear the amulet.

He then digs it up and delivers it to Angel. Then waits 7 episodes before making Spike corporeal then sending Angel and Spike on a wild goose chase which does nothing but alert them to Serk a hidden agent.
As I said above, neither Lindsey nor Wolfram & Hart probably ever thought that anyone besides Angel would be the one to wear the amulet, so when Spike wound up doing it, their initial plans were ruined. It took some time for Lindsey to sset up a new scenario that would have even a fair chance of utilizing Spike in any sort of way. The amazing thing was that the plan even worked for as long as it did, considering how unpredictable and downright contrary Spike could be.
 

Fuffy Baith

2017 (and 2016) Cutest BB member
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I like Angel season five very much. I love the addition to Spike and I don't mind the W&H location. To me it's the lack of Cordelia/Other strong female presence. Could have brought back Faith or Gwen or just made Nina a better character. Eve is no Lilah. And then they kill off Fred. Harmony doesn't count cause she's not really a main character. I also don't like the use of Lorne, as in he's barely used. Plus, Lindsey doesn't make sense, but I also never cared for Lindsey.
 

Monicaa

Townie
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So I apparently have the incredibly unpopular opinion that season 5 is the series’ weakest season and I actually dislike it by a wide margin (worse than any Buffy season, for sure).

Firstly, the earlier half is abysmal. The string of standalones are far weaker than season 1’s and offer little-to-no character development outside the (excellent) Lineage and (decent) Destiny. Even a relatively fun episode like Harm’s Way provides no insight on Harmony herself.

I also loathe the lack of Cordelia. For someone whose so integral to the series and got such a raw deal in season 4, merely pretending she didn’t exist barring one episode is an all-time low for a series that prides itself on its character development. I know there was network retooling, but you don’t take an OG, beloved character like Cordelia and dismiss her. Her refusing to join W&H could’ve been an incredible storyline and it pains me that we didn’t get to see it.

Speaking of, Cordelia was just a precursor into Angel’s horrible treatment of its female cast. For all intents and purposes, Cordelia was an exception up until the tail end of the third season. She easily has one of the strongest arcs of any character in the Buffyverse. Fred, on the other hand, bounced between love triangles and barely got to shine as a character. Season 5 is the worst with it. She loses the few interesting qualities she had and becomes cute-science-chick/Mary Sue extraordinaire. She’s beloved by every male cast member and then becomes the damsel in distress. Her death is a strong aspect of the season, but does NOTHING for her character. She’s the worst written of any of the main characters.

There are other issues. The memory wipe was a plot device that regressed everyone for quite a bit. I already mentioned Fred, but Wesley is boring up until his dark roots start to finally show again. Angel’s machismo becomes quite annoying and the show itself becomes excessively male-centric. Even with the excellent Cordelia episode, the great Illyria arc, and finale, this season sucks compared to what we deserved.
 
Honoria Dedlock
Honoria Dedlock
I think they could have killed two birds with one stone and kept Fred and Harmony friends...I really liked the dynamic they had together. The Illyria intro was executed well but killing off Fred was lazy!
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