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Willow is a poor advocate for herself

vampmogs

Townie
Joined
Jun 4, 2016
Messages
77
Age
29
There's a difference between CPR and necromancy. People do CPR every day.
And people would do necromancy everyday if such tools were available to us. The entire medical profession is built around finding cures for diseases, making us more healthy, prolonging our lives, reviving people whenever possible, treating our injuries etc. If we actually could bring people back from the dead we absolutely would.

Hell Tara- miss balance of nature- states that what they're attempting in unnatural and only possible because of the nature of Buffy's death, they're exploiting a loophole to bring Buffy back.
And why is that a bad thing? The entire series up until this point has championed Buffy for doing things differently. Unlike other Slayers, she defied the Council, she chose to "do things her way", she sought help from her friends, she fell in love with a vampire, she refused to sacrifice her family, education and social life to her calling etc. It was the very fact that she befriended the Scoobies that allowed her to "expose a loophole" in the prophecy in "Prophecy Girl" and have Xander revive her when she was "destined to die", was it not? So why is Willow wrong for doing the same thing? She only learnt from the very best. These girls don't give a damn about the "natural order of things" - they defy tradition.

I mean, is what Dawn and Spike try to do in 'Forever' wonderful? Are we meant to cheer them on? If so they why does Dawn reverse the spell? Why is that 'bad' and what Willow did in Bargaining 'wonderful'.
Because Dawn didn't have the magical prowess to bring Joyce back correctly. It's explicitly stated in "Bargaining I" that the difference between Buffy and Joyce's death is that Buffy died from a mystical death which means that there's a chance she can be resurrected correctly. The reason that Dawn's attempt to bring Joyce back was considered wrong in "Forever" was because she ran the risk of bringing Joyce back "wrong" which would've been deeply unfair to Joyce. This isn't just established in "Bargaining I" but then repeated in "Villains" when the demon (or Osiris - it's always unclear to me if it's actually Osiris that Willow is speaking to a representative for him) states that there's a difference between raising someone from a mystical death as opposed to someone who died from natural order.

Death and grieving is a part of life and living and moving on.
It's only this way because we have no other choice. It's healthy for us to accept this and "move on" because we have no alternative. Willow did.

It's not just what she did that many have a problem with, its about how she did it; she was reckless, secretive and fundamentally incompetent. Buffy was pulled out of a heavenly dimension and left to claw herself out of her own grave; trauma upon trauma when both were utterly avoidable.
I'm perfectly willing to acknowledge that Willow could have went about things differently but that's very different than stating she was wrong to do it in the first place. Are people really believing throughout Season 6/7 that it's a tragedy that Buffy is alive again and wishing she'd stayed dead? I'm certainly not. I mean, are people rooting for a vampire or demon to kill her just so she can go be at peace again in Heaven? It's really bizarre to me.

We've been shown that there are ways of finding out where a person's spirit has moved on to, we know that psychics and mediums exist. They couldn't consult one? They couldn't find some artifact to locate Buffy's spirit?
It's not a fool proof guarantee. Angel hunted down an artefact to find Cordelia in "Ground State" and when it showed him where she was he was given the false impression that she was at peace and happy and wanted to remain there. He was wrong though - "What are you deficient!? Get me out of here!"

As for Buffy realizing that she wants to die by 'Gone', the fact is she is still lamenting to Giles in 'Graves' that 'it was her time', that she was done, and that she doesn't know why she is back or even it's was a good thing.
Buffy certainly still had issues to work through after "Gone" but she does explicitly state that she no longer wanted to die and that the chance Warren's ray gun could have killed her really made her realise this. Evidently, this Heaven that was apparently so good and preferable to living and that people wanted her to remain in for all eternity instead of getting to experience life first wasn't looking so good a mere 11 episodes after her resurrection. That to me is proof enough that we shouldn't take Buffy's initial misery at being brought back as proof she never should have been brought back at all.

Because he was under the impression that she has passed out, and composed CPR on her, whereas Willow was only thinking about herself.
And Willow was under the impression that Buffy would want to be alive, given of course that she'd repeatedly stated throughout Season 1-5 how she didn't want to die young and thought her calling was unjust and unfair. A "passed out" person still breathes and Angel explicitly stated "she's dead." Xander revived her. At no point does Xander ever apologise for reviving her or bringing her back without her consent because that of course would be ludicrous. And since Willow knows how grateful Buffy was that Xander brought her back to life given that she did not want to die ("Giles I'm sixteen years old. I don't wanna die") it's perfectly reasonable that Willow would assume the same in Season 6.

After Buffy died in Season 5, Willow and Tara DIDN'T even bother to get a damn job.
Are you seriously suggesting the only reason Willow revived Buffy was so that she and Tara didn't have to get a job? Really? You don't think it has anything to do with the fact she was best friends with Buffy for 5 years and loved her dearly and was literally sobbing by her corpse in "The Gift" and then sobbing in "Bargaining II" when she thought they'd failed to resurrect her ("Buffy's gone. She's really gone")? C'mon. You evidently don't like Willow very much but it's just straight up character-bashing to assign such trivial and selfish motives to her actions here when Willow's love for Buffy has been established throughout the entire damn show.

Willow didn't even make sure that Buffy was in a hell dimension.
Is there any reason it would matter if she hadn't? Willow would still be perfectly reasonable to assume that Buffy didn't want to remain dead at 20 freakin' years old. Buffy literally told Giles in Season 5 that she wanted her death to be "a long time from now." Buffy preferred heaven over life because Buffy was finding it difficult to cope with all the hardships in her life. That is not a reason to leave Buffy dead. Suicide/death is not the answer. Buffy had a "world of strength in her heart" and just needed help finding it again.
 
r2dh2
r2dh2
Very good points.
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