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Willow was pretty similar to Warren in season 6

W

WillowFromBuffy

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"Foil" is most often used to describe the hero and the villain of a story. The similarities between a foil and her ... erm ... foil are usually superficial. The important thing is not what makes them similar, but what makes them different or how they react differently to a similarity.

There are many ways in which Willow and Warren are profoundly different as people, but if I was going to pick just one thing, it is that Willow lets Tara go. Warren kills Katriana in cold blood without a lick of remorse. Katrina's body is an inconvenience.
 

thetopher

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There are many ways in which Willow and Warren are profoundly different as people, but if I was going to pick just one thing, it is that Willow lets Tara go. Warren kills Katriana in cold blood without a lick of remorse. Katrina's body is an inconvenience.
On the other hand Willow got what she wanted from Tara- sex without consent, and also didn't seem to be aware that she did anything wrong when Tara left. She never panicked like Warren did.
On the other hand Warren killing Katrina (accidentally) in a panic because he didn't get what he wanted. He didn't have 'the power' with Katrina. Willow always had power over Tara.

Not so superficial really.
 
W

WillowFromBuffy

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On the other hand Willow got what she wanted from Tara- sex without consent, and also didn't seem to be aware that she did anything wrong when Tara left. She never panicked like Warren did.
On the other hand Warren killing Katrina (accidentally) in a panic because he didn't get what he wanted. He didn't have 'the power' with Katrina. Willow always had power over Tara.

Not so superficial really.
Killing someone by hitting them over the head with a large champagne bottle is not an accident. Warren knows what he has done, you can hear it in his voice. Firing a gun at house is not an accident. You would no refer to collateral deaths at a drive by shootings as "accidents."

Willow did not get what she wanted. Willow risked her life and her sanity to save Tara from Glory. I don't understand how you can reduce Tara to a convenient lay. When Tara walks away in Tabula Rasa, Willow does not bludgeon Tara to death with a heavy object at hand, nor does she shrug and think she got what she wanted. Willow lets Tara go. She does not plead or beg or do anything to make it harder for Tara. Through the rest of the season, Willow is very deliberate about not pressuring Tara. What Willow did was awful enough on its own, so there is no reason to paint it as something other than it is by implying that Willow would have cracked Tara's skull if the spell had broken too early.

Willow's power is almost unlimited. She could easily do anything Warren works so hard to do if she wanted. If she wanted to spy on the girls in the waxing saloon, she could do that. If she wanted a sex slave, she could get that with a flick of her fingers. If Warren had had Willow's power, he would have turned Sunnydale into something like Biff's dystopian future, because for Warren, power is not a means to an end. Power and abuse of power is all he is about. Willow's addiction to power comes from an inability to deal with loss, which sometimes leads her to altruism and a couple of times lead her to outright abuse, but she is nothing like Warren.
 

thetopher

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Killing someone by hitting them over the head with a large champagne bottle is not an accident.
Well, its manslaughter but it wasn't cold blooded murder as you initially stated.

Firing a gun at house is not an accident. You would no refer to collateral deaths at a drive by shootings as "accidents."
I agree. Warren going to Buffy's house was clearly a cold-blooded vengeance fueled murder rampage that had a plenty of collateral damage. I can't remember if Willow does something similar thing. Is there perhaps a parallel?

Willow did not get what she wanted. Willow risked her life and her sanity to save Tara from Glory. I don't understand how you can reduce Tara to a convenient lay.
Willow got back control again, which is what Warren was trying to do. Unfortunately Willow was found out rather quickly, tried the same trick again, was found out again and then Tara left. Obviously a clear difference is that Willow loves Tara and realizes that she cannot possess her like a object.
However Warren does not love Katrina and merely wants power over her.

I think we can all say that's obvious. I wasn't reducing the Willow/Tara relationship, only commenting that Willow is at the top of the slippery slope that Warren is happily skiing down. I don't think its a superficial comparison, its a quite deliberate one.

Willow is very deliberate about not pressuring Tara. What Willow did was awful enough on its own, so there is no reason to paint it as something other than it is by implying that Willow would have cracked Tara's skull if the spell had broken too early.
Perhaps I should say I'm not making a comparison about outcome but about the initial motivation for said actions. Willow is not the same hateful emotional basket case that Warren is so she can and does moderate her insecurities and ego like most normal people.
I didn't mean to imply that Willow would ever do what Warren did.
 
W

WillowFromBuffy

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Well, its manslaughter but it wasn't cold blooded murder as you initially stated.
It is a voluntary act with no provocation. Warren abducted Katriana and bludgeoned her to death when she tried to leave. It's indisputably a murder.
I agree. Warren going to Buffy's house was clearly a cold-blooded vengeance fueled murder rampage that had a plenty of collateral damage. I can't remember if Willow does something similar thing. Is there perhaps a parallel?
Vengeance? Warren creates all his situations. He keeps picking fights with Buffy, even though he could easily have operated under her radar. There is no provocation to mitigate his actions. He is the lone aggressor. Willow turns herself into Dark Willow in a fit of extreme emotional duress caused by Warren and after that she looses control.
Obviously a clear difference is that Willow loves Tara and realizes that she cannot possess her like a object.
However Warren does not love Katrina and merely wants power over her.
I would call that difference significant.
 

GraceK

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I think it’s pretty despicable that there is actually an attempt to justify and defend a would be gang rapist ,and a serial killer. There is nothing redeemable about Warren Mears and there was never meant to be. He didn’t want to be redeemed, he didn’t seek redemption, and he was an unapologetic misogynist who goal was ultimate power , domination of women , and subjugation of anyone he could. From the moment he was introduced he wasn’t shown with any sympathetic qualities and he only got worse from there. He never showed remorse for any of his actions, and until the very last
Moment of his death he screaming that Katrina was a bitch and she deserved it.

This whole conversation makes me sick . Warren makes me sick. I’d be happy to watch him being flayed alive over and over again.
 

thetopher

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Vengeance? Warren creates all his situations. He keeps picking fights with Buffy, even though he could easily have operated under her radar.
Does he though? How many trio plots involve Buffy? Smashed? No. Not Gone either since that was an accident. Life Serial sure. Dead Things retroactively obviously. But Warren's main goal was petty; money and power, nothing much to do with targeting Buffy.

And of course his perceptions are totally skewed and so he raged like a man-child when a powerful woman took away his power-balls.

You seem to be confusing motivation for doing things with the cause of those motivations. I am merely comparing one whilst you are making some equivalency with the other.

It is a voluntary act with no provocation. Warren abducted Katriana and bludgeoned her to death when she tried to leave. It's indisputably a murder.
Never said it wasn't murder- since Katrina is obviously dead by Warren's hand, but it wasn't cold-blooded. The clean up was.

I would call that difference significant.
I never claimed otherwise, but the similarities are there and they are not superficial.
 

spikenbuffy

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In Flooded, he was ready to let the demon kill Buffy in her home, he leads him (the demon) to go Buffy's house, without really having a problem with it. He doesn't seemed to care. Unlike to Jonathan & even Andrew.
 
W

WillowFromBuffy

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Does he though? How many trio plots involve Buffy? Smashed? No. Not Gone either since that was an accident. Life Serial sure. Dead Things retroactively obviously. But Warren's main goal was petty; money and power, nothing much to do with targeting Buffy.

And of course his perceptions are totally skewed and so he raged like a man-child when a powerful woman took away his power-balls.

You seem to be confusing motivation for doing things with the cause of those motivations. I am merely comparing one whilst you are making some equivalency with the other.
In Flooded, Warren sends a demon to kills Buffy. In Life Serial he tests out different ways to get at her. In Gone, they "accidentally" turn Buffy invisible, but instead of rectifying their mistake and saving Buffy's life, Warren attempts to murder her with a stronger dose. In Dead Things, Warren sends a group of very power demons to attack Buffy and frames her for a murder she had no part in. In Seeing Red, Warren is out intimidating women and beating up their male friends. He almost murder Xander for trying to defend them.

I am not confusing the motivations with the cause of motivations. Warren is the cause of himself. He is completely self motivated. He did not shoot Buffy out of vengeance. Vengeance for what? Warren should have nothing but gratitude towards Buffy.
Never said it wasn't murder- since Katrina is obviously dead by Warren's hand, but it wasn't cold-blooded. The clean up was.
You called it manslaughter. It is not manslaughter. Katriana was never going to leave that basement alive. No one would take Warren's hot-blooded-ness seriously as a mitigating circumstance. Warren created the circumstance. He abducted Katrina with the intention to rape her and now she wants to leave. It's an absurd excuse.
 
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GraceK
GraceK
Savagely murdered while trying to escape being gang raped. That whole scene is horrific

thetopher

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I am not confusing the motivations with the cause of motivations. Warren is the cause of himself.
Warren's motivation was revenge at perceived injustice, it doesn't matter if that injustice was real or imagined, it is the the motivation. Willow's motivation was actual vengeance because of injustice, which became almost as self-destructive as Warren's little rampage.

You called it manslaughter. It is not manslaughter. Katriana was never going to leave that basement alive.
What was going to happen is neither here nor there since we didn't see it. This is speculation and irrelevant to the discussion.

It's an absurd excuse.
It not even an excuse, merely an accurate description of what we witnessed. Actions in their immediate context.
 

NeonSlayer

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I don't think anyone here is really defending Warren, just pointing out the double standards.

Andrew & Jonathan were also going to gang rape Katrina yet fans love both of them. Andrew even getting to be a Scooby, a freakin Watcher in charge of 20 Slayers, and one of the main characters that survives to the end of the franchise.

Marcus from AtS s3 was going to have lots of sex & commit murders in Angel's body without consent while Angel was going to be forced to die of old age. He wasn't tortured to death and accused of being the biggest piece of shit.

Faith committed rape by fraud when she tricked Riley into making love to her as well as *raping* Buffy when she had sex with Buffy's body & fondled her in the bathtub without Buffy's consent. Fans felt worse in that episode for Faith than they did Buffy who was falsely arrested for murder, strapped to a gurney, injected with sedatives, kidnapped by 3 men, chained in the back of a van, spit on the face, nearly executed, and viciously attacked. When she confronted Faith a few months later fans called Buffy a self righteous bitch.

Yeah, Warren came to the house to murder Buffy. Willow tried to murder Buffy just 2 days after that. She zapped her with mystical energy and created demons to attack her. "I was the one who took you from the earth and now the earth wants you back."

Yeah Warren did horrible things to Buffy all season. Because she's the Slayer. That's actually a better reason than Faith hurting her out of jealousy and Willow hurting her out of grief.
 
W

WillowFromBuffy

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Warren's motivation was revenge at perceived injustice, it doesn't matter if that injustice was real or imagined, it is the the motivation.
But there is nothing for Warren to misinterpret. He is the sole aggressor. At least the vampires can claim Buffy kills them whether they actively seek her out or not. Warren seeks out Buffy several times, and she hardly fights back.
What was going to happen is neither here nor there since we didn't see it. This is speculation and irrelevant to the discussion.
Once Warren was done with Katrina, he would have to make a choice on whether to kill her or let her go and risk her going to the police and the case going to trial. If Jonathan and Andrew had been able to restrain Katrina, it would only have postponed the inevitable. Warren was going to kill Katrina.

@NeonSlayer

The only person I would compare to Warren is Marcus.

Jonathan and Andrew are wannabe-rapists, but until Andrew kills Jonathan, they are not murderers, even if they are culpable in Katrina's murder. In fact, they try (unsuccessfully) to persuade Warren from trying to kill Buffy on several occasions and they successfully stop him from killing Xander.

Faith does some horrible things, but when she comes to Sunnydale, she seeks friendship, sanctuary and an opportunity to be a hero again. Faith makes a series of bad choices leading up to her joining the Mayor, but the situations in which she makes these choices are not of her own design. Faith's fall is not inevitable. Circumstance and the actions of others does play a part. When Faith reaches the point of no return when reconciliations seems impossible, she quickly starts to display a proclivity for violence and cruelty that is truly frightening, but she does eventually become so frightened by herself that she makes the choice to change.

After Tara dies and Osiris refuses to resuscitate her, Willow goes out and learn that Warren is Tara's killer and that he has mortally wounded Buffy. Willow then goes to the Magic Box and sucks the power out of the entire collection of black arts books. Her first action is to rush to the hospital and save Buffy's life, which she could not have done without the power boost. She then brings Buffy and Xander along to chase down Warren, but when Willow reveals that her intention is to murder Warren, Buffy declares that she wants no part in it. Willow declares that she intends to keep using magic until she expires, like the shamans who worked with Sam and Riley did.

Willow becomes violent towards the Scoobies only after they break Andrew and Jonathan out of prison. By this point, Willow has gone further than she originally intended and has lost most of her control of herself. She appears to have very little concern for her friends and several times it appears like she's actively seeking to kill them, but at key points, she does actually spare the lives of Anya, Giles and eventually Xander.

Warren is not a victim of circumstance. He does not loose control. Nobody provokes him or seduces him into violence. There are no mitigating circumstances. Warren wants to control and hurt people.

I see people say that Willow could have been Warren, that Xander could have been Jonathan and that Buffy could have been Faith. Well, they weren't and I don't see how they could be.
 

GraceK

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Andrew & Jonathan were also going to gang rape Katrina yet fans love both of them. Andrew even getting to be a Scooby, a freakin Watcher in charge of 20 Slayers, and one of the main characters that survives to the end of the franchise.
I find Andrew funny as comic relief but despise him just as much and I think it’s digusting he was “redeemed “ and made a Scooby. That’s ludicrous to me because he
Never once showed remorse for what happened to Katrina and was fully on board with everything Warren did. He was just as guilty and he murdered his best friend in cold blood. I have made numerous posts to this fact. Jonathan however we have known and grown with since season 2 and at least in his case we have seen that he was truly remorseful and conflicted about his actions, and he was shown trying to make amends for what he did. He told Buffy how to stop Warren by smashing his “orbs”, tried to help them figure out a way to stop Willow, and then came back to Sunnydale to try to atone for what he did. If anyone should have gotten a shot at being a scooby it was Jonathan, not Andrew.
Marcus from AtS s3 was going to have lots of sex & commit murders in Angel's body without consent while Angel was going to be forced to die of old age. He wasn't tortured to death and accused of being the biggest piece of shit.
I hate this episode of Angel and don’t watch it for all these reasons. It’s gross and offensive and stupid to boot. Marcus is a piece of shit.
Faith committed rape by fraud when she tricked Riley into making love to her as well as *raping* Buffy when she had sex with Buffy's body & fondled her in the bathtub without Buffy's consent. Fans felt worse in that episode for Faith than they did Buffy who was falsely arrested for murder, strapped to a gurney, injected with sedatives, kidnapped by 3 men, chained in the back of a van, spit on the face, nearly executed, and viciously attacked. When she confronted Faith a few months later fans called Buffy a self righteous bitch.
I’m not one of those fans. Read my posts, I have never called Buffy a self righteous bitch and I always called out Faith for what she did and called it rape.
Willow tried to murder Buffy just 2 days after that. She zapped her with mystical energy and created demons to attack her. "I was the one who took you from the earth and now the earth wants you back."

Yeah Warren did horrible things to Buffy all season. Because she's the Slayer. That's actually a better reason than Faith hurting her out of jealousy and Willow hurting her out of grief.
It’s about context. Warren didn’t try to murder Buffy because she’s the Slayer. He tried to murder her because she’s a woman who’s stronger than him and that makes him feel emasculated. There isn’t a double standard in the case of Warren, he is actually one of the series one of the most vile characters. We are not being hard on poor little Warren. Willow tried to kill Buffy after she turned evil and There was a lot of other stuff involved. Let’s not simplify things to make a point.

And with that, I am done. This can really ruin my day, conversations like this. Trying to prove the ways in which Warren Mears is evil is like mucking around in sewage.
 

thetopher

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But there is nothing for Warren to misinterpret. He is the sole aggressor.
Buffy stopped his bank robbery and took away his magic balls. That's more than enough for a pipsqueak like Warren. I'm not saying he is right, only that- in his mind- his vengeance is justified.

Once Warren was done with Katrina, he would have to make a choice on whether to kill her or let her go and risk her going to the police and the case going to trial. If Jonathan and Andrew had been able to restrain Katrina, it would only have postponed the inevitable. Warren was going to kill Katrina.
But Katrina has no memory when under the influence of the device. We clearly see that when the effect wears off, she finds herself in a strange place dressed up like an obsene sex-doll. Then Katrina comes to some obvious conclusions about the intent of the Trio and calls it what it was going to be 'mind control and then sex= rape'.

But if that hadn't happened and the device had worked then Warren and co would've 'gotten away with it'. So I disagree that by abducting Katrina Warren was automatically committed to carrying out cold-blooded murder.
Warren wanted to possess Katrina as a slave, to control her, and when she tried to leave he hit her over the head and told the others to recharge the cerebral thingy.

I'm not trying to defend his hideous actions, just stating what actually happened, which is bad enough.

Marcus from AtS s3 was going to have lots of sex & commit murders in Angel's body without consent while Angel was going to be forced to die of old age.
Not forgetting that Marcus also had an actual death count. His victims were just dude-bros who liked to work out. Angel would've been justified in killing him but mercifully took away his magic jar instead.

When she confronted Faith a few months later fans called Buffy a self righteous bitch.
But I'm not sure that has anything to do with how Buffy treats Faith, but how she treats Angel.
Angel has also been a victim of Faith and yet he believes that she has the capacity to change.

Yeah Warren did horrible things to Buffy all season. Because she's the Slayer. That's actually a better reason than Faith hurting her out of jealousy and Willow hurting her out of grief.
But both Faith and Willow had somewhat tragic circumstances that contributed towards their fall. Both lost control of their hold on power because of extreme emotion. That never happened with Warren.
Warren had no real loss of control, from the off he sent the demon in 'Flooded' to kill Buffy simply for convenience- not much to do with her but he didn't really care. Even though he knew that Buffy's literal job was helping people because she was the slayer.

But that's the thing, their motives (less so with Faith but more with Willow) were more understandable/sympathetic, and yet they both did (and tried to do) far more damage.

Maybe that's why people (fans) see them as redeemable in spite of their actions. It's not what they did, but why they did it. Warren's 'why' is incredibly toxic so he gets far less sympathy.


What bothers me in all this is Andrew. His motives were petty, the same as Warren's, he had a good stab at trying to drive Buffy insane in 'Normal Again', he helped frame her murder and cheered as Warren tried to beat Buffy to death. I don't think 'useless without his pan-flute but he's a pathetic nerd that bakes' is a particularly good redemption arc to be honest. If Warren was truly undeserving of any redemption and people cheered when he was flayed alive then why is Andrew given a huge pass?
 

Spanky

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If Warren was truly undeserving of any redemption and people cheered when he was flayed alive then why is Andrew given a huge pass?
Because Andrew is funny and is often the butt of peoples' jokes.
 

NeonSlayer

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I don't care that Warren was killed. It's not about thinking he was a poor anything or deserved a chance or that he was a good person. Let him get eaten by Gnarl.

Willow was on a magics fueled descent since late s2/early s3. It built up more each year until she went cold turkey for the middle of s6. Only the very extreme last 3 episodes could be blamed on emotion. Before that she had the same "I was bullied my whole childhood and want to be powerful" background as Warren.

Except Willow didn't realize she was on that path since she was still one of the good guys fighting evil. She couldn't see how many of her actions would've shocked s1 Willow. The spell she was going to put on Oz, erasing Tara's & Buffy's memory, about to send dozens of people to another dimension just because it was a couple of minutes faster, going to Glory's place for reckless revenge like Giles did with Angelus in s2, transmogrifying people for funsies, stealing from the Magic Box (yet it's horrible when 15 year old Dawn does it), etc.

Angel took a chance on Faith in Sanctuary because she sobbed in front of him. Before that Buffy was the one who really wanted to redeem Faith. Even in Enemies Angel says she might be too far gone and Buffy says to keep trying and goes to the motel to get some of her stuff to make her feel safer. The main things Faith did to Angel was try to steal his soul which hurt Buffy more since she had to let Angel punch her unconscious & chain her up and watch Faith kissing him, shoot him with a poisoned arrow which hurt Buffy more since she had to let Angel drain her nearly to death to save him and The Mayor was smothering her as she lay in the hospital bed, and try to shoot him with an arrow which he caught.

What was Faith's emotional thing that turned her to the dark side? Accidentally killing Finch? The WC not being trustworthy? Buffy & the Scoobies did not blame her for it and tried to help her but she chose to go to the Mayor's office.

I've definitely heard fans say they think Buffy was a bitch for how she treated both of them. At least one fan called her a c-u-n-t for how she talked to Faith in the alleyway scene in Empty Places. I've never heard another character called a ****.

Warren killed Katrina. But he picked the nearest object with the intention of knocking her unconscious. Xander was hit in the head with a troll's hammer and was fine. It's his fault but not viciously murder.

Warren killed Tara. But he didn't even know she was shot until the next day.

Buffy is the only one Warren actively tried to kill.

I think Warren was a little like Samuel L Jackson in Unbreakable. He was going to be the Big Bad so he targeted the Big Good. He didn't go to an MRA meeting after shooting Buffy, he went to a demon bar.
 

GraceK

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think Warren was a little like Samuel L Jackson in Unbreakable. He was going to be the Big Bad so he targeted the Big Good. He didn't go to an MRA meeting after shooting Buffy, he went to a demon bar.
Warren isn’t fit to kiss Mr. Glass’s boots. He wishes he was as intelligent and as badass. Also, Samuel L Jackson’s character Mr, Glass has a depth, charisma and a backstory that is interesting and worthy of a sequel twenty years later. Warren is not even good enough To be the scum on his shoe.

Also, no, Warren didn’t do to an MRA meeting, he went to a demon bar to brag
About murdering the slayer and to say that they should all buy him drinks . He expected to basically get worshipped as a hero and
Bond with other “ big bads”. Big difference.
 
W

WillowFromBuffy

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But Katrina has no memory when under the influence of the device. We clearly see that when the effect wears off, she finds herself in a strange place dressed up like an obsene sex-doll. Then Katrina comes to some obvious conclusions about the intent of the Trio and calls it what it was going to be 'mind control and then sex= rape'.

But if that hadn't happened and the device had worked then Warren and co would've 'gotten away with it'. So I disagree that by abducting Katrina Warren was automatically committed to carrying out cold-blooded murder.
Warren wanted to possess Katrina as a slave, to control her, and when she tried to leave he hit her over the head and told the others to recharge the cerebral thingy.

I'm not trying to defend his hideous actions, just stating what actually happened, which is bad enough.
If everything had gone exactly according to plan, then Warren would still be taking a risk by letting Katrina go. Katrina would wake up with a large blank in her memory, she would discover that things had been done to her, her last memory would be Warren being very aggressive towards her and there would be witnesses seeing him lead her out of the bar into a scary van. W.W.W.D.?

Also, there comes a point where excuses won't do. In Five by Five, if Wesley had suffocated on his gag and nose blood or if Faith had cut an artery with that massive piece of glass, it wouldn't matter if it was intentional or not. It would still be cold blooded murderer.

When you abduct someone to rape them, there are no accidents.
The spell she was going to put on Oz
She had reason to be angry and she changed her mind.
going to Glory's place for reckless revenge
This is one of the points were Willow saves the day. After Willow takes Buffy out of catatonia, Buffy remembers how Willow was able to hurt Glory. Willow's willingness to get her hands dirty and take chances saves the group and the world several times. Buffy is not about doing the same, like when she forced Angel to feed off her.
stealing from the Magic Box
It is insane that Giles would not help fund Willow's Scooby related projects. The next episode, he receives two years worth of back pay that is supposed to help him function as Watcher, but apart from the money he gives to Buffy in S6, he seems to spend it all on himself, and then he abandons Buffy, because he is scared he is spoiling her too much.

I mean, the man uses what was left of his watcher's salary to buy a cheap but highly profitable business, then he uses the Scoobies as free labour and knows Buffy will make sure he does not share the same fate as the shop's previous owners. He is very sneaky.
Warren killed Katrina. But he picked the nearest object with the intention of knocking her unconscious. Xander was hit in the head with a troll's hammer and was fine. It's his fault but not viciously murder.
This has to do with how the show portrays violence as opposed to action. Warren wants to be a movie-Willow, like in a Saturday morning cartoon or like the nerds in revenge of the nerds, but his actions have real life consequences. In real life, there is no such thing as knocking someone unconscious and having them wake up just fine half an hour later.

And even if Katrina did survive getting knocked out, what would he do with her then? It is either, let her go and risk prosecution or kill her.
Warren killed Tara. But he didn't even know she was shot until the next day.

Buffy is the only one Warren actively tried to kill.
What does that matter? Buffy and Tara are equally undeserving of being murdered. And when you fire wildly at the wall of a house in which people live, those people may get hit.

Furthermore, Willow was only able to save Buffy after she had sucked up the black magic, so Willow saves Warren from becoming three times a murderer by killing him. If he had any decency in him, he would be grateful.
He didn't go to an MRA meeting after shooting Buffy, he went to a demon bar.
What? That is basically the same thing. In the blue print for Buffy, the demons were conceived as a metaphor for male violence towards women. Of course, the many depictions of "evil" women and "good" men add nuance to that metaphor, but the image of burly men preying on young women is constant throughout the entire show. Also, I don't think most MRA activists would actually align themselves with someone like Warren.
 
NeonSlayer
NeonSlayer
I agree it would've made an interesting sequel.

NeonSlayer

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Warren isn’t fit to kiss Mr. Glass’s boots. He wishes he was as intelligent and as badass. Also, Samuel L Jackson’s character Mr, Glass has a depth, charisma and a backstory that is interesting and worthy of a sequel twenty years later. Warren is not even good enough To be the scum on his shoe.
He's still a compassionless villain. Mr Glass orchestrated the deaths of thousands of innocent people in multiple cities. That's high level terrorism. His physical condition sucks but I didn't see Stephen Hawking becoming a mass murderer. There's a whole section on YouTube of inspiring people born with debilitating conditions, none of them crashed planes & derailed trains to find someone with the opposite of their affliction.

Would fans react the way they do about Warren if Tara hadn't of gotten caught in the crossfire?

How would they feel about Faith if the WC goons had raped & murdered Buffy-in-Faith's body (she was sedated & chained up) while Faith was busy using Buffy's body to go clubbing & ride Buffy's boyfriend? If Buffy hadn't of gotten there in time to stop Faith from stabbing Joyce to death? If Angel hadn't of gotten there in time to stop Faith's torture of Wesley and she used the flamethrower on him? If Angel hadn't of gotten there in time to stop Faith from strangling Xander to death? If Angel hadn't of caught the second arrow? If there was no cure for the poison Faith shot Angel with? If Faith had elbowed Cordelia too hard (she is stronger than a vampire) and it smashed her face in? If the Scoobies refused the trade and the Mayor got so angry he told Faith to just slit Willow's throat?

What would've happened if all the Scoobies died in s6? If they were killed by vampires because of the amnesia she caused? Willow tortured Giles to the brink of death, she's lucky he survived. What if that comet had hit Xander & Dawn? If Buffy had died in a hole in the ground from demons Willow created? If Dawn was reverted to Key form and it was irreversible?

Faith chose to change the season *after* she went to the dark side. Warren was killed 7 months after going to the dark side in the same season he began the descent. Faith from s3 jumped off a roof instead of saving the life of the person she shot then woke up the next year and hurt about a dozen more people.
 
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WillowFromBuffy

Guest
Would fans react the way they do about Warren if Tara hadn't of gotten caught in the crossfire?
Warren is already established as a horrible person. If Tara had not been hit, then she would presumably stop Willow from consuming more dark magik to save Buffy. I think that would make fans hate Warren even more.
What would've happened if all the Scoobies died in s6? If they were killed by vampires because of the amnesia she caused? Willow tortured Giles to the brink of death, she's lucky he survived. What if that comet had hit Xander & Dawn? If Buffy had died in a hole in the ground from demons Willow created? If Dawn was reverted to Key form and it was irreversible?
What would have happened is that Willow would never be able to forgive herself. That is one of the many things that set her apart from Warren.
 
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