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Question Would Faith have survived a Cruciamentum?

DeadlyDuo

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I think it's more that her Watcher only told her after she already found out, had Faith not found out by herself then she would have had to do the test too. Giles did the test to Buffy as she didn't discover it.
However why didn't Faith tell Buffy about it!
Is Go Ask Malice canon? Why didn't Giles leave his watcher diary out for Buffy to see? He could've left it out for Willow, she would've told Buffy then Giles can claim innocence because he didn't tell Buffy about it.

What happens if a Slayer is over the age of 18 when they were called? Would they still have to do a cruciamentum?
 

nightshade

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Is Go Ask Malice canon? Why didn't Giles leave his watcher diary out for Buffy to see? He could've left it out for Willow, she would've told Buffy then Giles can claim innocence because he didn't tell Buffy about it.
I've no idea if it's canon.
Surely leaving the right diary out, one that specifically mentioned the test, would be reason for the Watcher's to potentially fire Giles. Her picking up a random diary off the shelf and reading it is accidental, but him giving her clues or telling her about it is different.
The Council had already failed to do the test with Faith, I imagine they had told Giles that Buffy must do it.
 

Fuffy Baith

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Never thought about if Faith would have survived the Cruciamentum or not. It's interesting that the watchers council sort of give up on her after she goes to prison.
They don't even tell Kendra's watcher that Buffy is still alive, which turns out to be a mistake, as Kendra is sent to the Sunnydale hellmouth anyway.
Well, did the watcher's council know that Buffy even died? It's not clear what Giles reports back to them. Maybe with a new slayer called, they just assumed Buffy died, but never tried to contact Giles.

Not necessarily. I always thought Faith was supposed to be older than Buffy (19 compared to Buffy's 18) hence some of Buffy's "childish" behaviour and clothing styles plus the whole "older girl leads younger girl astray" vibes.

The Cruciamentum is supposed to happen on a Slayer's 18th birthday. If Faith wasn't called until after her 18th birthday, would she still have to do it?
Well, in season 7 Kennedy says that it's rare for a slayer to be called over the age of 18, I always assumed Faith was a few months younger than Buffy. But I would assumed that the watcher's council would still have something down the line if a slayer over 18 was called, they want fresh, young slayers that are complaint and won't question them, like Kendra.
I doubt any age for Faith was really conceived of. Sometimes she seems a lot younger, sometimes a lot older than the Class of 99. Like, she was a Slayer for four months when we first meet her. Doesn't seem that way. I say 16 1/2. That's old enough to drop out of high school.
Yea, I think she's younger also, but clearly old enough to have a sexual history that she mentions. I think she's like 4 months younger than Buffy.


Is Go Ask Malice canon?
I don't think it's actual canon, but just a good inside into Faith. It's possible that Faith got her watcher before she was a slayer, so maybe she was more prepared then Buffy was, when she got called.
 

AlphaFoxtrot

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19 also seems plausible. But really, aside from dropping out of high school, and being young enough to have recently been called, and for no one to question her presence at an American High school, there aren't really any anchor points for her age. I mean, how old is Kendra? Or anyone on Angel? So, yeah, over 16 but under 24 is my answer.
 
nightshade
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I've wondered about how old Kendra was, I'll make a thread!

thrasherpix

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It's been many years since I read Go Ask Malice and I recall very little of it. I do recall having the impression that it conflicted with what was shown with Faith, and not just in personality or tone (easily explained away), though also the impression that the show contradicted itself even more than the book did so shrugging it off. Ultimately, I accepted it as that's how Faith would choose to remember while the "truth of events" was a bit different (and may have been very different according to her Watcher had she survived).

Obviously just my opinion, and I'm not going to give the book a reread.
 

WillowFromBuffy

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Well, did the watcher's council know that Buffy even died? It's not clear what Giles reports back to them. Maybe with a new slayer called, they just assumed Buffy died, but never tried to contact Giles.
That sounds a bit strange. But anyway, Giles calls them after Kendra comes to Sunnydale. And when Kendra dies, they don't tell Giles about Faith. Faith knows about Buffy, presumably so that her watcher won't send her to Sunnydale by mistake, where Buffy will be a bad influence on her.

I think they gave up on Buffy after LA, so they sent her a watcher that wasn't well liked. Buffy hadn't been trained from childhood and she had already gotten a watcher killed. Faith was the same way. They send Wesley to look after the two of them, probably hoping they will die as soon as possible, so they can get another Kendra activated.

The Shadowmen specifically made it so that only one very young girl would be activated at a time. Having two wilful slayers over the age of 18 living together is a less than ideal situation.
 

Taake

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Like others I don't seem to have much faith in Faith in this situation, I think older Faith would've survived, but young, impulsive, insecure and angry Faith, I honestly can't picture her having much of a chance.

Then again, it all depends on the test itself. Unlike Buffy, Faith had a pretty rough life - we're lead to believe - before becoming a Slayer. Suggesting that she possibly had to be crafty and get out of risky situations long before she had super powers. So if the test is just to remove her powers and pit her against a random vampire, she might have a chance same as Buffy.

But if they tried to find her vulnerability - something to do with her mother perhaps, or the death of her Watcher, something that put her off balance in essence, I think she would've struggled to make it through.
 

Spanky

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Faith would have a better chance at surviving than Buffy.
 

thrasherpix

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At first I thought not. But if Faith was close to her Watcher as she seemed to be from the show (at least traumatized over the ending) and that vampire had pulled a Kralik, then maybe she would. Had Buffy not been fighting for her mother (or other loved one) perhaps she would not.
 

RachM

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I always liked the fan theory that Kakistos was Faith's Cruciamentum and her failure was why her Watcher died. It would certainly add to Faith's backstory and the deep trauma she was suffering when she arrived in Sunnydale; imagine feeling responsible for the death of your Watcher. Would also go a long way in explaining Faith's issues with authority.
 
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WillowFromBuffy

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I always liked the fan theory that Kakistos was Faith's Cruciamentum and her failure was why her Watcher died. It would certainly add to Faith's backstory and the deep trauma she was suffering when she arrived in Sunnydale; imagine feeling responsible for the death of your Watcher. Would also go a long way in explaining Faith's issues with authority.
That doesn't make any sense to me. If I was trapped inside a house with a giant vampire with massive cloven hands without super powers, and I somehow managed to get out, only for said vampire to murder the the person who drugged me and trapped me with that monster, I would say good riddance.

And wouldn't Faith have warned Buffy that the watchers would do the same to her? If Faith had only read about it, as she does in Go Ask Malice, then I could imagine her just forgetting about it, but if she lived through it and barely survived, she should have given Buffy a warning.

And though Faith has a problem with authority, she doesn't seem like someone who has just escaped a murder plot orchestrated by the watchers. Why would she even go to find Buffy? Why would she be so casual around Giles, and later Wesley, if these are working for the organisation who tried to murder her?
 
RachM
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Dude, it's just a theory, it doesn't necessarily have to make sense to everyone. I just mentioned that I personally like it, doesn't mean you have to.

WillowFromBuffy

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I must have missed the, "This is my theory! Don't @ me," disclaimer.
 
RachM
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Just saying, you can let some things lie, you don't always have to aggressively rain on the parade.

nightshade

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There's no need to get personal, let's keep this friendly.
 

WillowFromBuffy

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I am often in awe of your commentary. I sing your praises to everyone who will listen. I recently recommended your video essay on Willow to a new channel called The Costume Codex, which I would in turn recommend to you.

I love discussing fan theories, especially ones that fill in gaps that are not explicitly explained by the show. Coming up with such theories is a way for us as fans to claim ownership of the show. I just happened to see some potential problems with the theory on Faith.
 

Taake

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That's enough, we've already said not to make it personal, you don't need to continue to make it personal.

Focus on the theory instead, if that's what you're interested in discussing.

I like the theory, I think it makes sense in show, considering Go Ask Malice isn't canon as far as I know, so Faith may not have known what the Cruciamentum was at all, since her Watcher died before telling her. Then she wouldn't have known she had been drugged, or what to warn Buffy about. It was clearly traumatic to her and why would she turn to Buffy to talk about how she mysteriously lost her powers, failed to save her Watcher, and almost died herself and had to come running for help, somehow regaining her powers in the process (again, not knowing about the test).
 

WillowFromBuffy

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I like the theory, I think it makes sense in show, considering Go Ask Malice isn't canon as far as I know, so Faith may not have known what the Cruciamentum was at all, since her Watcher died before telling her. Then she wouldn't have known she had been drugged, or what to warn Buffy about. It was clearly traumatic to her and why would she turn to Buffy to talk about how she mysteriously lost her powers, failed to save her Watcher, and almost died herself and had to come running for help, somehow regaining her powers in the process (again, not knowing about the test).
But if the experience lead to Faith becoming distrustful of authority, wouldn't she have had to know that it was the Watchers Council who were behind it all? That's how I interpreted it.
 

Taake

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But if the experience lead to Faith becoming distrustful of authority, wouldn't she have had to know that it was the Watchers Council who were behind it all? That's how I interpreted it.
I just interpreted as Faith already having issues with authority, and it getting worse with being "abandoned" by her Watcher. As in, getting some semblance of someone she can trust, then having that taken away. So more the grief of her of failure and loss being a reason for further detachment (not wanting to commit to anyone new), than a sense of betrayal from the Council. But that's more me thinking of her having issues with authority is more of a general disposition from her whole life, so very little would be required to make her even more distant to authority, but that's just head-canon since it's not really explicit in the show.
 
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