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Would you bring back Buffy?

  • Thread starter WillowFromBuffy
  • Start date

What would you do if you were Willow at the start of s6?

  • Resurrect Buffy!

    Votes: 20 46.5%
  • Move away from Sunnydale with Tara and Dawn.

    Votes: 5 11.6%
  • Remain in Sunnydale and protect the Hellmouth with the remaining Scoobies.

    Votes: 18 41.9%

  • Total voters
    43

spikenbuffy

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I chose ressurect Buffy, I would bring her back yes, if Buffy was in hell, people would want that Buffy to get back from it.
 

NeonSlayer

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Faith turned to the dark side after only 9 months as a Slayer. She just spent the last 2 years evil, in a coma, evil, & twiddling her thumbs in a jail cell. I wouldn't trust her as far as Giles could throw her. Even by s7 Faith had less than a year's worth of active Slayer experience.

By Bargaining the Buffybot had only 4 months less experience than Faith actively fighting evil. Combine the summer between 2-3 and the 5 months Buffy was dead, Xander & Willow patrolled for 8 months.

If I was Willow, busting out the girl who held a knife to my throat to orchestrate the slaughter of everyone I ever met, tried to strangle my oldest friend to death, tried to stab my friend's mom to death (which stings more after they lost Joyce), tried to torture my friend to death, and even when on Team Good would blow off training and take off for days/weeks without any word on a regular basis, would not be high on my list.

Anya's past was worse but she wasn't there to be the leader or the one shouldering the brunt of the load like Buffy was and like Faith would've been expected to. In s7 Faith couldn't handle being the leader for 2 days and said it was the loneliest she felt in her entire life.
 

Dora

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First they must registrar births in America so presumably hank would be on the monks falsified birth certificate , so he would be informed by social services
Why did they carry on without Buffy using the Buffy bot , Buffy was not even the slayer , Faith was the one that the slayer line went through , no one was called when Buffy died in the gift , no they should have informed the watcher council the hell mouth is their problem
I voted to move away from Sunnyhell with Dawn Tara and the bot.......why would you stay ? it was Hell living there
 

NeddaSai

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No way was Buffy in a hell dimension. The evidence for that was flimsy at best. They saw what they wanted to see.

Move out of Sunnydale with Dawn, or stay and fight if they're so inclined. Either option is better than resurrecting someone.
 

Antho

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Question : Why the scoobies or even some people here seem to believe that Buffy was in a hell dimension ? I don't recall anything in the show that was said that proves that. For me Buffy was dead, she was a hero, of course she is at paradise, that's where you go when you are a good person. By that logic if Buffy goes in hell when she dies, then there are place for all the world.
 

thrasherpix

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Question : Why the scoobies or even some people here seem to believe that Buffy was in a hell dimension ? I don't recall anything in the show that was said that proves that. For me Buffy was dead, she was a hero, of course she is at paradise, that's where you go when you are a good person. By that logic if Buffy goes in hell when she dies, then there are place for all the world.
Souls aren't protected in the Buffyverse (and nothing about The Powers That Be make me trust them to do right by the souls of anyone, not even Buffy's, even allowing Cordelia to "put Angel on the path" in season 5 could easily be seen as self-serving by TPTB to strike a blow against their infernal enemies rather than any act of goodness or reward). Willow herself managed to grab one from the ether while a kid in a hospital bed. Therefore, I can see her fearing that Buffy's soul, a real thing, could've been sucked into the Hell dimension that Glory was trying to get to, simply sucked there as Willow once sucked Angel's soul into a magical orb (which she could then play with if she desired, but she put the soul into Angel).

Though that said, it would've been nice if Anya could've said more about the nature of souls and afterlife, though she wouldn't necessarily know herself.

I don't remember if I said so in this thread, but Willow should've had the ability to learn SOMETHING about Buffy's soul...she was able to find Angel's soul after all, surely she could've done a divination of some kind. Frankly, going with season 6, I think she was just trying to to show off her mastery of the magicks as more of an ego thing rather than altruism,, and it would also make life easier for her to not keep rebuilding the Buffybot (which allowed her to live in the Summers home in addition to keeping the demon population down).
 

Antho

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Souls aren't protected in the Buffyverse (and nothing about The Powers That Be make me trust them to do right by the souls of anyone, not even Buffy's, even allowing Cordelia to "put Angel on the path" in season 5 could easily be seen as self-serving by TPTB to strike a blow against their infernal enemies rather than any act of goodness or reward). Willow herself managed to grab one from the ether while a kid in a hospital bed. Therefore, I can see her fearing that Buffy's soul, a real thing, could've been sucked into the Hell dimension that Glory was trying to get to, simply sucked there as Willow once sucked Angel's soul into a magical orb (which she could then play with if she desired, but she put the soul into Angel).
I see your point but it honestly never occured my mind that Buffy could be in hell.
I remember the scene or Willow tells Xander something like "I will not leave her in this hell dimension" and it surprised me because for me she was in heaven. Then after you have Buffy who says she was in hell to relieve their consciences and at the same time she is telling the truth to spike.
 
Last edited:
spikenbuffy
spikenbuffy
She could have been, the portal opened multi dimensions, Buffy wasn't in paradise, she was in a dimension I don't think it's the same

DeepBlueJoy

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I voted for stay and protect. But the answer really isn't and cannot be made 'neat'.

Since in a story of mine, I choose to resurrect her -- the situation is somewhat different from canon -- but the conclusion ends up being the same -- Faith is unavailable and no one wants to kill her to spawn a new slayer -- a slayer is needed. They don't believe Buffy is in hell. They don't get that far -- the threat is just obviously too great. The problem is simply that until Faith dies, there's no other slayer and the world needs a slayer. The others want to fight the good fight, and let Buffy rest, but short of letting the council murder Faith (who isn't a villain b/c of the trajectory of my story, but is in a coma) they need someone -- on an active hellmouth THAT really does matter. So they bring Buffy back. The result is not pretty. Even though Buffy knows from the get go that they didn't do it from arrogance. She still experiences something close to PTSD.

My conclusions:

1) If I were going to consider resurrecting Buffy, I would DEFINITELY try to find out where she was. In AtS there's precedent for that! Before trying to get Cordelia back, they checked to see where she was. In their case, it was way more complicated than they knew, but the point is they tried.

2) I would also try to find out if it was possible to have Faith released. She was a strong fighter, and at this point had served quite enough time to have changed a fair amount -- and she did go to prison willingly, so that tells us a lot about where her head is.

A foreign entity powerful enough to get watchers their green cards might well have enough pull at the state department to get Faith released -- even if it required the use of magic.

My point is there are other options. So... the answer isn't neat. There are good arguments for any of those three choices. Stay and fight. Take Dawn and Tara and make a life. Bring Buffy Back. All have risk. All have advantages.

My major difficulty with Willow's action is not the ACT of resurrecting Buffy, but the mindset -- the arrogance. She had NO problem lying to the others about the darkness about the spell. She threatened Giles when he tried to call her on her behavior. She practically demanded Buffy's gratitude. If she had said 'we didn't know what else to do and we missed you so much and the we tried to find out where you were, but couldn't...' - that would have caused me to have a VERY different reaction to being resurrected had I been Buffy.

We saw Willow's wilfulness and hubris before this. It constituted reckless endangerment IMO.
  • She pointed Dawn to the resurrection book when Dawn was talking about bringing back her mother. Without that vampire she hated helping, Dawn would likely have died attempting that spell.
  • She hacked into the governments records -- something that is NOT generally considered acceptable or legal behavior. Willow was fundamentally insecure, but also arrogant.
  • We saw this back when she was talking to 'Malcolm' (the robot demon). She was unwilling to listen to anyone and willing to lie.
  • We saw it when she mindwiped (mind raped) and basically physically raped Tara (probably more than once). Tara was as incapable of giving meaningful consent as anyone who had been roofied.
  • We saw she mind-raped everyone by removing their memories. Humans are what we know and remember. To take that is a fundamental theft of who we are. Even the ugly memories are ours.
  • We saw this with the 'my will be done' spell. THAT may well have been the most dangerous spell she ever cast! Suppose she'd wished the world out of existence? The death of someone? 'your head should explode'. Her spell could have had any number of truly awful and permanent consequences. Xander could easily have died from the demon attack.

My point is that the awful is not simply the disturbing fact of Buffy's resurrection; or of her being dragged out of heaven; or the third hell of the trifecta: being left to dig herself out of completely lightfree coffin, with a limited air supply and 6 feet of cemetery mud.. Being buried alive is a scary enough thing for things that don't need to breathe -- but for someone alive, it would be truly traumatic, even if they somehow survived it). Willow thought about NONE of that! She was too caught up in her own myth. Willow drank her own Kook-Aid and OTHER people suffered.
 

The Bronze

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Did any of that stuff spilling out into our world look pleasant? Not to me and not to the scoobies. Have they ever come across a heavenly dimension before? Not that I know of. So it stands to reason that they'd fear jumping through that portal left Buffy in a hell dimension, similar to the one Angel went to. You don't leave your friends in hell so the rest of it's irrelevant. I'd resurrect her if I was in their position.
 

Antho

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1) If her body had vanished thru the portal fearing hell would have made more logical sense. But it did not.
Very good point. The difference with Angel is that he was aspired by Acathla, sucked into the hell dimension. This was clearly explicit. But for Buffy, I just assumed that she threw herself in that giant energy ball, dead electrocuted, her death closed the portal and then her body fall to the ground.
 

nightshade

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I voted for remaining in Sunnydale, by this point Willow is a powerful witch, her and Tara could have made a great team, Anya had a lot of demon knowledge, Xander could be research guy, taking on more of the Giles role, and training more in combat. Spike being the muscle, and could have found a way to teach them more how to fight
 

Taake

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Did any of that stuff spilling out into our world look pleasant? Not to me and not to the scoobies. Have they ever come across a heavenly dimension before? Not that I know of. So it stands to reason that they'd fear jumping through that portal left Buffy in a hell dimension, similar to the one Angel went to. You don't leave your friends in hell so the rest of it's irrelevant. I'd resurrect her if I was in their position.
Angel bodily went to a hell dimension. They may not have come across a heavenly dimension before, but neither had they come across a portal to a hell dimension which only required the persons soul and didn't swallow up their body as well. When Buffy died she clearly had a "normal" person death, i.e. her body died and her soul left it. That is enough reason for them to question whether her soul was taken to hell, when her body was not. If, as you say, they have past experience to rely on. None of the stuff coming out looked pleasant, but neither did Buffy go in to that dimension when she went through the portal.
 

Dora

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Many people resent Willow for bringing Buffy back from the dead and say she and the Scooby Gang only did it for selfish reasons (with Buffy back they wouldn't have to worry as much about protecting the Hellmouth), but if you think about it, Willow did it because her and the Scooby Gang wanted to save Buffy from eternal torture in the awful hell dimension that all the nightmarish creatures came out of in the Season Five Finale. Of course, if Willow and the Scooby Gang knew Buffy was in heaven, they would have never resurrected her (as shown by how devastated they look, especially Willow, when Buffy tells them in OMWF). Ultimately, if I was Willow I would have resurrected Buffy. I feel like it would have been the right thing to do. Willow and the Scooby Gang all loved Buffy so much and never wanted her to suffer the hellish torture they thought she was experiencing.
As Deep blue Joy above, I understood that they got Buffy back because Angel went through a portal that was a hell dimension , but he went Body and soul , Buffy sacrificed herself , they had her body so Why would you not think Buffy soul would not be in heaven ? Good people are supposed go to heaven ! if Buffy had gone into a hell dimension like Angel she would have gone complete
Willow devastated look ! it didn't last long , she had no time for Buffy even after she found out that Buffy had been in heaven ! to busy with Tara and her Magics , same as Xander and Anya to busy with their lives and making wedding plans , and as for Dawn selfish little >>
Drag you friend out of heaven , rely on her again , send her out patrolling , give her all the bills , Crappy job , not seeing her pain , not bothering with her depression, her feeling of being empty , her hopelessness , Giles just leaving , All a selfish load of Bastards, only Spike understood partly what Buffy had gone through, that's why she went to him originally only for him to end up the worst offender of the lot
Buffy had a thousand reason to get on a Bus and do what she did at the end of S2 leave every body in Sunnyhell and have a 2nd chance of finding true love and maybe have a family .....There would have been was nothing to stop her going , but of course Dawn , she was no longer the Slayer , the Hell mouth was Faiths and the council problems....not her's .......until her so called friends made it her's again .....
 

The Bronze

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When Buffy died she clearly had a "normal" person death, i.e. her body died and her soul left it. That is enough reason for them to question whether her soul was taken to hell, when her body was not. If, as you say, they have past experience to rely on. None of the stuff coming out looked pleasant, but neither did Buffy go in to that dimension when she went through the portal.
Yeah I would definitely have researched first based on her body remaining in our world. However assuming that drew a blank and the scoobies saw Buffy die going through the portal rather than hitting the ground then I'd have been betting on her soul being taken somewhere nasty that the portal opened up.
 

Dora

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But the portal is not a dimension , Buffy die passing through the portal she did not go into a dimension if she had they would not have had her Body
 

spikenbuffy

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She could have been in a hell dimension, the portal opened multi dimensions, Buffy wasn't in paradise, she was in a dimension I don't think it's the same as paradise where people she would have see her mother and Jenny lol.
If BTVS would have ended in S5 , Buffy would maybe not been in a heaven dimension, it's just for drama in S6 also Willow got hurt when she heard that Buffy wasn't in a hell dimension in OMWF and in Tabula rasa she feels bad and guilty for Buffy she didn't intend to take Buffy out from heaven.
 

Puppet

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Cemeteries in BtVS are always in the dark, I think the only exception up until The Gift is Buffy's dream in S2 about Jenny. So when the final scene of Buffy's grave site happens in the sunlight, I always saw that as a metaphor for Buffy being at peace. But, that's just how I see it :)
 

NeonSlayer

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There is a difference between being a Slayer and being Guardian of the Hellmouth. Buffy was both. Other Slayers weren't. Most Slayers in the millennia old line didn't even live in the United States. So the Hellmouth wasn't Faith's. That's like saying Fred should've gotten the visions after Cordelia's death because she was the only other girl in AI.

If Willow used magic to peer into the spirit dimension Buffy was in, what would she even see? Buffy described it as a place without form or time. That is outside of their understanding. Could she recognize the light that is Buffy's soul?

Cordelia took her body with her. It wasn't that different than if she had been in Pylea. And it's laughable that Angel saw her bored out of her mind dangling in the sky doing nothing and thought he shouldn't rescue her because "She's doing important work." Late s2 to s4 he was too busy wanting to date her to question anything. She was letting herself die a slow death instead of transferring the visions then jacked herself up with unknown demon DNA so she could keep them and he calls her "extraordinary" for it. She's stuck in a foreign dimension because she was tricked by a demon into believing she's a Higher Power who outgrew Earth and he thinks she's single handedly saving realms with her new glowy power or the visions. He was so blinded. Willow at least questioned.

I can't see the Scoobies moving away because Buffy died. Willow & Xander were born & raised & lived in Sunnydale their whole lives (minus a summer here and there) until the s7 finale. They had school & jobs & relatives in that town. Giles could easily leave because he only moved to Sunnydale to be Buffy's Watcher and in that duration hadn't become friends with anyone outside of the Scoobies except Jenny.
 
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