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Xander in Once More With Feeling

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#1
I love OMWF and it’s probably in my top 10 favorites episodes of the series. But the big flaws of this episode is we are supposed to believe that was Xander who called Sweet ! Really ! I’m not a big fan of Xander but I can’t believe he did that, I don’t want believe it ! This is such lame that the producers didn’t find an other explanation. Plus they completely ignore that the next episode. If only all of this would bring some depth to Xander but no he somned a demon, people are dead, no one care !
 
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#5
One of the many reasons that people hate Xander....
You think ? When someone says he/she hates Xander he/she often talks about the famous « kill him » in « Acathla » or leaving Anya at the altar. What he did in that episode isn’t often blame to him. And if it’s the case, people shoudn’t because it’s clearly not in character. They should blame the writing.
 
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Sineya
#7
You think ? When someone say he/she hates Xander he/she often talks about the famous « kill him » in « Acathla » or leaving Anya at the altar. What he did in that episode isn’t often blame to him. And if it’s the case, people shoudn’t Because it’s clearly not in character
Yeah but the thing is we can't just ignore what Xander did because we consider it ooc, it's canon and Xander was responsible for those people dying. But I agree acathla and leaving Anya at the altar are the main reasons. However, when discussing Xander's hatred of Angel and Spike it's much more common for people to mention the lives that were lost because of Xander in 'Once more with feeling'.
 
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#8
Xander gets a different measuring stick from everyone else in the show, for multiple reasons that have little to do with his behavior in any objective sense...heck, I've recently seen Xander vilified for cheating on Cordelia while Willow cheating on Oz was just shrugged off at the very same time, and I'm not even surprised by it anymore.
 
I know this came up before, but I can't recall what thread. Hopefully sosa lola remembers the relevant thread or details on why it doesn't make sense that Xander accidentally summoned Sweet, and how it was likely him trying to save Dawn.
 
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Sineya
#9
Here is the exchange that explains it with just dawn and Sweet:

SWEET
I COME FROM THE IMAGINATION
AND I'M HERE STRICTLY BY YOUR
INVOCATION
(unraveling a
parchment that looks
like an invitation)
SO WHAT'D YOU SAY
WHY DON'T WE DANCE A WHILE

Later when everyone meets up where Sweet is:

SWEET
I don't make the rules; she summoned
me.

DAWN
I so did not! He keeps saying that!

SWEET
You've got my talisman on, sweet
thing.

Dawn looks down at the necklace, realizes.

DAWN
Oh! But -- no! I just -- this at
the Magic Box... on the floor, and I
was cleaning and I forgot to... But
I didn't summon anything.

SWEET
Well now, that's a twist.

GILES
If it was at the shop, that means one
of us had to...

ANGLE: THE GROUP

For a beat, we wait to see who did it.

In the background, Xander raises his hand.

ANYA
Xander?

XANDER
I didn't know what was gonna happen!
I just heard, you know, revelries and
song and... I wanted to be sure we'd
work out. Get a happy ending.

We see later that Dawn has been stealing from The Magic Box and the text makes it look like Xander saw this item and summoned a demon with it. In spite of the text, Xander did not likely know Dawn had stolen anything and he never showed any tendency to make use of magic items unless he was told to (like destroying the talisman in the following season in "Lessons". I suspect Xander was covering for Dawn. Sweet never mentions anything about how he was summoned except by the talisman. He would have known who summoned him and he never made any mention of Xander.
 

Fool for Buffy

I'm just being a big nerd again
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Sineya
#10
Seems more likely that he was covering for Dawn. Which is pretty cool of him imo. If it was actually him then that was pretty pathetic reasoning.
Also he complains about the singing constantly. So either he knows exactly how it happened and is really embarrassed so he wants it to be over or he knows nothing about it and just hates it. I guess that detail doesn't help lol.
 

sk

The Overlooked One
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Sineya
#12
I can buy the covering for Dawn explanation...

But really, I don't mind it as a throwaway joke.
It was unexpected and it made me laugh.

Sure, it doesn't really fit within the story.
But I have no problem with leaving it with being just a joke that doesn't need to be overanalyzed. No matter how fun that is. :)

/SK
 
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#13
Xander gets a different measuring stick from everyone else in the show, for multiple reasons that have little to do with his behavior in any objective sense...heck, I've recently seen Xander vilified for cheating on Cordelia while Willow cheating on Oz was just shrugged off at the very same time, and I'm not even surprised by it anymore.
 
I know this came up before, but I can't recall what thread. Hopefully sosa lola remembers the relevant thread or details on why it doesn't make sense that Xander accidentally summoned Sweet, and how it was likely him trying to save Dawn.
I agree the Xander HATE is out of control, out of proportion and definitely out of wack - Every mistake he's made or hurtful thing he's said held against him 10 fold to stuff done by the other also PROBLEMATIC characters - it's utterly bizarre actually....

Did people die from song and dance because Xander summoned SWEET - maybe but that wasn't his intention ( though not giving him a free pass )

But he gets more HATE than say Willow ( whom I love ) who actively and INTENTIONALLY killed people...

Is it because the people she killed were what we could define as bad - Raff and Warren - maybe that's by people let it slide...

But when you get down to it - Still murder and still intentionally -

I understand where she was coming from - addiction and grief and get that because of that there are extenuating circumstances...

What I don't understand is the EXCESSIVE Xander hate for lesser acts....
 

flow

Scooby
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#14
can’t believe he did that, I don’t want believe it !
Here is my theory about how Sweet was summoned:

An unknown third party whose name and intentions we will never know, broke into the Magic Shop, used the amulet, to summon Sweet and then left the amulet on the lying on the floor. There it was found and stolen by Dawn in one of her cleptomanical fits. When Sweet arrives, he wrongly assumes , that Dawn has summoned him. Xander assumes the same thing, because the evidence points to Dawn and to save her he bravely steps up and takes the blame.

Unfortunately my theory has one minor flaw. Someone pointed out in a previous thread, that we see Xander holding the amulet in a flashback. The flashback happens in a later episode - I think it is Hells Bells. But the scene, where Xander holds the amulet predates Dawn wearing the amulet in OMWF.

Therefore I need a convincing explanation for this flashback, that won`t contradict my theory. I am really fond of my theory.

flow
 
Antho
Antho
I love your theory :)

ChaseRules

When it comes to dating I the Slayer.
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Sineya
#15
I think that Xander did summon Sweet because of the fact that Sweet left . I sure that there had to be a reason for him to leave . Like people said he was summoned & since Dawn was wearing the amulet Sweet thought she had summoned him but when Xander spoke up he double checked & saw that Xander was right . That why he left . Sweet could have took Dawn with him when he left if she had summoned him but since he could only take Xander since he was who had made the pact by summoning he let him go & just left.

That makes a lot more sense then Sweet believing Xander just because he said that . After all he a demon & used to lies so why would he believe Xander lie .
 
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Sineya
#16
By the time Sweet left, his job was complete, not because of Xander. He had gotten everyone except Willow to tell the truth and the most important truth was about Buffy having been in heaven. I doubt Xander would have the expertise to invoke a demon, even though he had accidentally set a book on fire by saying "ignis" in another episode and Giles told him not to talk to the books. The spell from "Something Blue" had never been neutralized. Xander was a demon magnet. Buffy wanted to marry Spike. The only one not permanently affected was Giles, who did not remain blind. We saw Xander attract demons in "Something Blue", in his romance with Anya and later in "First Date". After doing a little damage and getting people at odds with each other by using truth, there was no reason for Sweet to stay.
 

ChaseRules

When it comes to dating I the Slayer.
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#17
There one problem l have with that .lf Xander didn't have the ability to summon Sweet then who did .

And while it true he caused problems that no reason for him to leave.
 
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#18
Someone pointed out in a previous thread, that we see Xander holding the amulet in a flashback. The flashback happens in a later episode - I think it is Hells Bells. But the scene, where Xander holds the amulet predates Dawn wearing the amulet in OMWF.
I need to rewatch this episode because I don't remember that at all
 
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#20
Hopefully sosa lola remembers the relevant thread or details on why it doesn't make sense that Xander accidentally summoned Sweet, and how it was likely him trying to save Dawn.
The Xander summoning Sweet issue. A large part of fandom saw it as out of character and they're about three groups.

Group 1 thinks that it's unlikely for Xander to cast a spell irresponsibly after what had happened in Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered, because he had told Willow in Lover's Walk that he had learned from that lesson and he would never get involved with casting unsupervised magic.

Group 2 thinks that it is likely for Xander to make the same mistake, because after all, lots of humans do make the same mistake twice even after they had learned from the first one, it's real life. But, what's un-Xander-like is that he hadn't confessed to doing the spell after he had learned about people combusting into flames because of it.

Group 3 thinks that Joss didn't care much for characterization and continuity and he had only chose Xander to do the spell so we could have the "Do I have to be your queen?" joke.

Personally, I think group 3 nailed it.


"About Once More With Feeling, the episode is filled with flaws when it comes to who summoned Sweet. I mean Xander sings in a song about WHO SUMMONED SWEET and he never says a thing. Even though secrets comes out when you sing. That's IMO evidence enough that he didn't summon him.

But clearly the show says he did, so clearly it was him. Even though he knew people were burning because of the spell and he still said nothing.

Xander is a psychopath. He's more evil than any of the other characters." by me from another thread.
 
ChaseRules
ChaseRules
What thread was that ?
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