Whedon TV II

Years ago (I'm thinking even before YouTube) I used to post threads suggesting a TV style channel for Joss on the internet where Mutant Enemy, or something like it could create their own entertainment.

At the time it was so far away we could only take it semi-seriously, suggesting funny show ideas which could be on the channel, but there always the hint maybe it could really be done. Maybe you could even see stuff like continuations or spin-offs of the old shows. Something like Buffy Animated would work.

On Buffy-boards sister site AfterDarkness.com I suggested perhaps the day would come creators like Whedon, Abrams, and McG could join forces and create an internet TV station. As I recall there were objections to that on the grounds it couldn't happen.

But now we have the success of Doctor Horrible. What are we thinking now? Could this lead somewhere? Perhaps not to the radical upset of entertainment infrastructure I was hoping for back in the old days. I was thinking of a day when creators controlled their own creations. Nevertheless something's going to happen, I bet. What might it be? I wonder...

Actually, I think this is the case.
It has been no secret revelation that the internet is the future.
BSG made this abundantly clear in its debut.
There is even this (in)famous article discussing it:
How Battlestar Galactica Killed Broadcast TV
http://www.mindjack.com/feature/piracy051305.html

BSG also broke ground with the webisodes and the attendant flack with unions over them.

Now Joss is experimenting with internet delivery of original content.
iTunes provides instant gratification for paid downloading and we are slowly seeing studios open websites offering their own content.

The day of an internet broadcast station is not far away.
As for the radical upset of the entertainment industry you mentioned, that has been going on now for awhile and really began with the cable/satellite tv explosion of channels available other than the "big three". One of the reasons Nielsen ratings have been adjusted in evaluations. Even there, it is woefully behind the times. The Nielsen rating system is actually on the way out as an indicator of actual viewership.

Man, I wish I could link you to the debates I had on this on other boards, pre-YouTube, but I can't remember where they all are.

But even as recent as 2006 when Internet TV technology had appeared, and was evolving there was resistance to the possibilities.

Internet TV Inevitable - After-Darkness

I remember this other one that particularly pissed me off at this Canadian TV site where I just suggested the possibility one of the reasons Internet companies were buying up cable tv channels might be in anticipation of web TV. There was this almost angry rejection of the proposal. That was a clique site though, so that might have been more a reaction to a noob having an idea.

But yeah OK, the technology is out there now. Has been for awhile. So what happens now?

It's almost too wild to imagine, but just try to envision this. Whedon TV. The revival of Buffy animated, the adoption of Ripper, old ideas like a Spike or Faith mini-movie, the return of Firefly, a new Mutant enemy creating new, not previously copyrighted productions. Could any of that happen?

It could... but I don't think as grandiose in planning as you suggest. At least not in the immediate future.
I would guess that small productions like Dr. Horrible will gain attention and then after a few of them have been done (most likely) a group of like minded souls will band together for a fledgling production company with exclusive original internet content - for sale. Best guess RSS streaming technology for subscriptions or something very similar.

From there, once established and a known audience base is acquired, then you might see some of the revivals you mention once figures for profit can be somewhat estimated. I would also expect some form of commercial product advertisement as well. Those dollars are hard to let go of (yet).

We are still a ways off from anything like that happening though. In another 5 years (or less) I'm fairly certain it will exist.
The tracks need to be laid before the train can roll along.

Yeah, we're just baby-stepping right now. Here's another one from AfterDarkness...

Ever Seen a Web Series? - After-Darkness

At the same time there are so many internet technology possibilities out there. Something radical could happen in a hurry.

I know people are working on these torrent gizmos which would allow members to either create their own networks, or assist bandwidth on larger operations. They're already out there, but the possibilities are still being imagined.

I don't know how I'd feel about this. As far as convenience, it would be great, but it would probably have the same effect on TV that it's having on book sales--the midlist is disappearing. You can't really browse on the Internet, and I doubt you'd be able to channel-surf, either. That means long-shot shows, unless made by a huge name like Whedon, wouldn't have a chance. You wouldn't flip past it and suddenly find yourself hooked on a show you never thought you'd watch--a show you wouldn't have gone looking for. How many of us got hooked on Buffy that way? At least with cable (or Dish, or whatever), you pay one flat fee for a whole slew of channels, and there's probably at least one thing on at any given time that you'd be interested in. With Internet TV, you'd have to know about the show and actively go looking for it.

That's just my $.02.

I'm sure there will be some sort of "schedule" listing.
Channel surfing? Way too early to even contemplate that option.
Yes, I image you would have to know about it beforehand.
That's what viral advertising is for.

I think you're applying standards of practice that would no longer be relevant.

That's the problem. The way we do things now will no longer be relevant. Back to the literature example; if you buy exclusively online, you have to know exactly what you want, don't you? No wandering through the library or bookstore picking up books and going, "Hm, this looks interesting." That is KILLING lesser known authors and ruining their chances of becoming well-known authors. As for viral marketing, how many of the commercials you get on TV do you actually watch? For that matter, when you're looking at content on a website, how many of the ads on the sidebars do you look at? After awhile, all those flashy lights and bright colors are just noise, and you're back to only watching the stuff you already know about and leaving other potentially good shows to die.

There are sites to help focus people's attention in particular directions. "Middlemen" sorts of directories, clearing houses.

Like the Drudge Report...there's no actual content there, but it's a jumping off point, collecting tons of daily news links.

You could have...an indie film clearing house site, a sci-fi, fantasy film site, etc. Seems like sites could develop that function vaguely like TV channels do now.

True on books.
But then I don't think Amazon is having problems.

As for new authors, with electronic media available even those practices are changing.
If they're smart, it can even be more profitable for the writer. Things are changing.
Stephen King briefly delved into online publishing, but it is still too early.

As for TV commercials, the link I gave earlier explains that they are practically irrelevant now.
Noise or not, there is a greater bang for your buck there.

Fight it if you like. Kick and scream if you will.
The future is going to be different. Adapt or die.
I'm sure many companies (and people) will fail to see this in time.

I'm not fighting. I'm just unsure of the ramifications.

nerd4hire said:

On Buffy-boards sister site AfterDarkness.com I suggested perhaps the day would come creators like Whedon, Abrams, and McG could join forces and create an internet TV station. As I recall there were objections to that on the grounds it couldn't happen.

Click to expand...

Mm I remember these discussions. And I've never really watched shows on TV, I pretty much download everything I watch (hey, it can be legal these days, so I'm allowed to say it, right?).. And I kept saying how everyone should be able to just pay for the shows they choose to watch etc. This must have been only like two years ago, can't believe how much things have changed (at least it feels like it has?)...

Ok I didn't have anything useful to say. Just. Yeah. It's a majorly interesting subject. And I believe in it.

With Dr. Horrible, now the interesting parts begins. They get to answer the question, can they make money. If they can a lot of things can happen.

They're doing a DVD. Selling the 3 parts on Itunes. They were talking about turning Dr. Horrible.com into a prescription site. They seem to have rejected an advertising model for now, but that could come. The lack of merchandising at present is surprising. I heard something, I don't know if it was a joke, or not but it was a suggestion for stage runs.

Those singalongs people were doing with OMWF would work well here. They'd pack theater auditoriums for sure, but could they make money? Whedon liked the idea with OMWF. Will he like it as much now when he holds the property rights, I wonder?

Rather than prescription fees for DrHorrible.com I wonder if it would make more business sense to just beef up the site. Sell ad space. Use it to jump start other projects. And of course merchandise could be sold there.

I don't know what the production costs were.
The DVD will certainly make them money.
The question is will the site do so by itself before the DVD arrival?
DVD and merchandising are icing on the cake.
In fact Lucas made his money through merchandising rights, not so much the movies.
So yes, more money will be made there rather than through the site itself.
I can assume perhaps the actors themselves might have been offered merchandising points as incentive in lieu of higher payscales to keep production costs down. I know it [points] was one of SMG's issues for Buffy; that and the lower pay compared to other hit TV series payscales. I'm sure that this plays a bit into her reservation/resentment towards future Buffy possibilities.

As for the stage singalongs, are you referring to something similar to the old Rocky Horror Picture Show viewings?

As for the site it sounds a lot like what I was suggesting earlier with subscription streaming.
Prescription/Dr.
Funny.
Beefing up the site itself will come in time, I'm sure.

I imagine profits would indeed be used to start other small and similar projects of lower budget, shorter content fare.
Cartoon shorts much akin to the Star Wars Clone Wars might be a possibility along with other live-action serialized offerings.

Buffy/Angel items are far off the list yet. Not only rights issues but merchandising - where the real money is at.
Always follow the money and you will find the root.
My expectation is more along the lines of Fray, which have fewer (if any) rights issues than the Buffy/Angel franchise.

The quote I remember for production costs was low 6 figures.

There's an interview with Jed Whedon and Maurissa Tancharoen at DoctorHorrible.net. They had a few interesting things to say on monetizing.

*There's a soundtrack coming out.
*Itunes will sell internationally soon.
*All involved seem open to the singalong idea. There's a thread in the Real World forum about the Buffy singalongs. They would be like that.

There's an article at the Variety blog on monetizing Doctor Horrible and other web series. They say that Ask a Ninja site makes $100,000 a week from advertising. I know Pure Pwnage has been surviving for years just on merchandising. Felicia Day says they'll be going more commercial with The Guild for Season 2. I got the feeling from reading interviews and such she has advertisers lined up. Dr. Horrible should host The Guild. Naked News has been using a subscription modell. None of those are as big as anything Joss was giving his full backing to could be.