Discussion of 8.28 "Retreat Part 3" - Released 9/2/09 (Dark Horse)

Maybe they were all attracted to Xander's "normality". Anyway, that's not why un-demonic people couldn't be attracted by him... Renée wasn't a demon, why should be Dawn ?

All in all, I think it was a really good issue. I'm beginning to love this arc, even though it is a bit slow. I think that's due to our habit of 4-issue arcs, whereas they have the time to set everything up in this arc. I loved all the character moments : Buffy/Willow ("We're great" : I actually "aaaaaawww"ed at loud), Buffy/Faith (SO great), etc.

I didn't like the Buffy/Xander moment : I would have liked it to be less ambiguous... I'm scared, as I said : pleaaaaaaase don't make Buffy jealous of Dawn !

I wouldn't have been against a Dawn/Buffy moment, especially since I think too much "screentime" was given to Andrew. I mean, there was the Simone issue where it was all shown how Andrew had grown into being a member of the group, blah blah blah and it was important for the character development or whatever, but now could we focus on other characters ? Andrew was funny for a moment (or not), but now he's getting more and more annoying.

I always thought Buffy had regressed for plot reasons, with the writers making her less "cookies" than in S7 for drama purposes. Now, I think her development is totally logical. In S7 she began leading people, or learning to. Now, her leading is way more important, and she has learned to be a detached yet quite good ruler. But this comes to a price : her feeling deconnected. I love that in this issue, she said (to Faith) she didn't want to lead people anymore. Really a good move from the writers.
 
cranetimothyj said:
And hey! Lets not forget when Xander acidentally checked out Dawn in Season Seven (Him) 😛
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He also drooled when Nancy mentioned that Buffy was his girlfriend. So, I guess the doors to him being into the Summers' girls were open since S7 :cheering:
 
AndrewCrossett said:
Not all the Slayers are with Buffy in Tibet... only a few dozen could have fit on that submarine.
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Take it from an old sailor, a submarine of the size depicted in #26 and 27 would require an active crew of between 50 and 100 TRAINED personnel (living space on a sub is, to say the least, crowded, and bathing facilities are rather sparse, hence the nick name "pig boats") and that's just one of the old WW2 type diesel models. The newer nuclear jobs require 3 or 4 times as many people and are, of course, much larger.
 
white avenger agrees: No argument from me. Problem is, though Buffy has always seen Xander as a friend, Dawn started out in Season 5 having a "big crush" on Xander. Apparently, she's never seen the Xan man as a brother.
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I don't think Buffy sees him as a brother either, I think she thinks of him as her best friend, and even if she'd seen him as a brother, feelings change with time. One could argue that Xander always thought of Willow as a sister, and suddenly when he saw her wearing that dress, he started to think of her in a new light, as a woman. Right now the only guy Buffy is close to, the only guy who never left, the only guy who stood by her side from the beginning to the end is Xander. I don't think it's strange that her feelings for him would change, especially since he's more mature and confindent now, more like a man than a boy.
 
The new Dawn/Xander relationship didn't surprise me, and it doesn't bother me. For all we know, Xander and Dawn have always been interested in each other, but supressed that interest because of their age difference. Hence, the big brother/little sister relationship. Although, if that's true, I hope that Xander didn't "move on" to Dawn just because he doesn't have a romantic future with Buffy. However, I do have my reservations about this relationship. First, they both recently lost loved ones. Dawn had a very bad breakup with Kenny (and that's quite the understatement), while Xander recently lost Renee. I'm not sure that either of them should be jumping into a new relationship this soon. Second (and you can look at this however you want), Xander's ex-girlfriends have eventually died after breaking up with him. Does that mean that Dawn will die, or will she break the streak? And just in case the question comes up, Faith doesn't count, because that was just sex.

Other main thought on this issue: I think that Willow is in denial when she tells Buffy that she won't ever become Dark Willow again.
 
I'm confused as to Buffy's feelings WRT to Xander & Dawn. She pushes him away for years then finally decides she might possibly be interested in him, then Xander & Dawn get together? Huh? I don't mind Dander, I've thought they were well-matched since Potential. What I haven't liked is Dawn's lack of character development (plenty of physical developments, sure). We see her in a kind of Watcher Jr capacity in season 7, but none of that in season 8 until possibly the Retreat arc where she's helping to lead the troops. Yeah, yeah, she's been away at college, like a normal young person should be, but still....

Wow, I totally did NOT read that into the Willow/Oz/baby exchange (that maybe the baby would die). Do you think that Joss would really do that: kill a baby?
 
Love the Andrew 🙂

But don't love this Slayers giving up their power thing. Seems pretty stupid to me. Especially going to so much trouble to do it. So they're just going to hide and hope they can defeat demons and the army without any slayer powers or magick?

I didn't get the Buffy-Xander-Dawn thing either - seemed like a cheap dramatic device rather than something that would actually happen in this verse.
 
I'm not sure I really understand the point of Buffy's plan here. They deduce that Twilight can track them through magic. So their solution is to do the biggest teleportation spell ever, a huge magical sign that Twilight instantly tracks, and then take away their powers? Huh? On top of that, they basically take over Oz's peaceful home and put him, his wife and his child in mortal danger.

The only pluses was Andrew's narration (which I always find funny) and the Buffy/Xander/Dawn triangle, which I'm actually quite into. They'd been hinting at a Buffy/Xander pairing since the beginning of the season, and I've liked it.
 
It's fun to see "Masterpiece Theatre" Andrew back, and his narration seems very true to the character; I can hear his voice saying the lines.

I wasn't sure if that was Willow he filmed milking the yak, but if so, she really is in a bad mood! This is still a problem I'm having, with identifying who's who. If it is Willow, then clearly the loss of magic is having an effect on her.

I definitely thought Xander and Buffy were having a moment, but I can see what others said, that it's just that they're old friends. Xander looks the least like the actor playing him, but I always know him from the eyepatch! As for him and Dawn, it does seem a little awkward due to their prior older bro/little sis relationship, and also he seems a little too old for her. But I guess I can see it.
 
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