Discussion of 8.40 "Coda" - Released 1/19/11 (Dark Horse)

White Avenger said: We have no real idea:

Why a girl was chosen and not a boy.
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Well, it seems to be implied (or maybe it's just us fans theorizing) that young girls were chosen because the Shadowmen (& Watcher's Council afterward) felt they were more easily controlled & manipulated. It makes sense both from Joss' feminist perspective, and from women's history in general.
 
Hello. I've finished issue 40 and I have some questions, maybe some of you could answer them? I just don't understand...

1. Magic. So, magic is gone. Warren turned into a pile of human meat, how come Dawn is still around? ( for the record: she's one of my favourite characters ) Why do vampires still have to be invited inside? Is there some logic here that I fail to comprehend?

2. Why do women formerly known as Slayers hate Buffy? I don't get it, they still have their powers and plenty of vampires to stake, what's the problem?

3. Willow. Why is she so upset over the disappearance of magic? Has magic ever done anything good for the world? OK, so she was in love with a magical snake demon babe, snake's gone, it hurts and yes, magic was a very important thing in her life but the lack of magic gives her a real future, a future she wanted in Tibet. Without the magic, she's definitely not going to turn into a dark murderous demigoddess, how is that bad?

Thanks.
 
EVIL UU said:
Hello. I've finished issue 40 and I have some questions, maybe some of you could answer them? I just don't understand...

1. Magic. So, magic is gone. Warren turned into a pile of human meat, how come Dawn is still around? ( for the record: she's one of my favourite characters ) Why do vampires still have to be invited inside? Is there some logic here that I fail to comprehend?

2. Why do women formerly known as Slayers hate Buffy? I don't get it, they still have their powers and plenty of vampires to stake, what's the problem?

3. Willow. Why is she so upset over the disappearance of magic? Has magic ever done anything good for the world? OK, so she was in love with a magical snake demon babe, snake's gone, it hurts and yes, magic was a very important thing in her life but the lack of magic gives her a real future, a future she wanted in Tibet. Without the magic, she's definitely not going to turn into a dark murderous demigoddess, how is that bad?

Thanks.
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1. Dawn was created by magic, but magic is not what keeps her alive. She is fully human, so she does not need it to sustain her.

2. Buffy had sex with the dirtbag who killed 206 Slayers and because of having sex with him, thousands of other Slayers and humans died. The betrayal has gotta hurt.

3. It's really not bad that Willow's lost magic. It's a really good thing, actually but Willow just can't see it that way. She's spent at least seven (I think) years working so hard for something, to increase her power to make a connection to the earth and to be helpful to Buffy and it's all lost. She can only see it as a disaster, not just for herself, but for the world too.
 
EVIL UU said:
Hello. I've finished issue 40 and I have some questions, maybe some of you could answer them? I just don't understand...

1. Magic. So, magic is gone. Warren turned into a pile of human meat, how come Dawn is still around? ( for the record: she's one of my favourite characters ) Why do vampires still have to be invited inside? Is there some logic here that I fail to comprehend?

2. Why do women formerly known as Slayers hate Buffy? I don't get it, they still have their powers and plenty of vampires to stake, what's the problem?

3. Willow. Why is she so upset over the disappearance of magic? Has magic ever done anything good for the world? OK, so she was in love with a magical snake demon babe, snake's gone, it hurts and yes, magic was a very important thing in her life but the lack of magic gives her a real future, a future she wanted in Tibet. Without the magic, she's definitely not going to turn into a dark murderous demigoddess, how is that bad?

Thanks.
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1. The authors have basically said that it's their world, they can make up the rules around a world with no magic. So essentially what we know at the moment is that: Slayers remain slayers but no new Slayers will be called; Vampires remain vampires but no new ones can be created; witches have lost their power; no supernatural beings can cross over from other dimensions. A lot of the other stuff is as yet unknown.

2. See WakingNightmare's answer above.

3. Willow is not just a girl playing around with magic anymore. It has become part of her. It's the basis for her identity now, she has always felt that without magic she is nothing. Now she gets to see if that's true. But my guess is that she will not sit around waiting- she will attempt to do something to restore that connection.
 
WakingNightmare said:
1. Dawn was created by magic, but magic is not what keeps her alive. She is fully human, so she does not need it to sustain her.

2. Buffy had sex with the dirtbag who killed 206 Slayers and because of having sex with him, thousands of other Slayers and humans died. The betrayal has gotta hurt.

3. It's really not bad that Willow's lost magic. It's a really good thing, actually but Willow just can't see it that way. She's spent at least seven (I think) years working so hard for something, to increase her power to make a connection to the earth and to be helpful to Buffy and it's all lost. She can only see it as a disaster, not just for herself, but for the world too.
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Not really seeing how Buffy's wreckleness hurt Willow as a good thing. Willow doesn't need to lose magic, still can't see one good reason outside of the sterotypical view that Willow is all about her magic which is flat out false, and Willow and magic has been a good thing for most of the seven years. Also Buffy having sex with the guy that betrayed everyone in the first place is hardly something that qualifies as a great thing if it hurts someone like Willow who has worked hard for magic over the years and has many great things with it like the empowerment spell. Willow and magic isn't the problem, and I don't see the goodness in the events that happened, so far Buffy pretty much hurt people across the world, including her best friend who had just been rebuilding her life and indentity after it had just been shattered, and Buffy every reason in the world including knowing having sex with Angel could potentionally destroy the world like it did in Becoming. Willow know's more about the Earth and magic than Buffy does, and Buffy herself is responsible and its kinda seems like she's trying to hide behind Willow addiction in season 6 to making the hurt she caused Willow not as bad as it actually was, cause its really messed up the way Willow lost her magic, if she wants to give it up she should do it willingly not because somebody decided that they didn't want to stick by their morals because it was just so hard, and the world ends up paying for that mistake. Not to bash Buffy but it seems like people seem to justify Willow's past addiction as a way to overlook the pain Buffy caused her with the betrayal, whether intentionally or not. No offense intended to anyone. Also I'm pretty sure its losing magic this way that will cause DW again, and the death of magic will in fact set her on that path, not the other way around, we might get a slightly different version of Frayverse, but so far not convinced Frayverse was a good thing.
 
citiegal17 said:
Not really seeing how Buffy's wreckleness hurt Willow as a good thing. Willow doesn't need to lose magic, still can't see one good reason outside of the sterotypical view that Willow is all about her magic which is flat out false, and Willow and magic has been a good thing for most of the seven years. Also Buffy having sex with the guy that betrayed everyone in the first place is hardly something that qualifies as a great thing if it hurts someone like Willow who has worked hard for magic over the years and has many great things with it like the empowerment spell. Willow and magic isn't the problem, and I don't see the goodness in the events that happened, so far Buffy pretty much hurt people across the world, including her best friend who had just been rebuilding her life and indentity after it had just been shattered, and Buffy every reason in the world including knowing having sex with Angel could potentionally destroy the world like it did in Becoming. Willow know's more about the Earth and magic than Buffy does, and Buffy herself is responsible and its kinda seems like she's trying to hide behind Willow addiction in season 6 to making the hurt she caused Willow not as bad as it actually was, cause its really messed up the way Willow lost her magic, if she wants to give it up she should do it willingly not because somebody decided that they didn't want to stick by their morals because it was just so hard, and the world ends up paying for that mistake. Not to bash Buffy but it seems like people seem to justify Willow's past addiction as a way to overlook the pain Buffy caused her with the betrayal, whether intentionally or not. No offense intended to anyone.
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Yhea, and I thought Willow was past her dependence on magic but she wanted to protect the seed in order to keep magic safe which just proves that she's become too relient on it. The seed needed to be destroyed, to guarantee that Twilight wouldn't have a path to this world and Willow wouldn't let it happen because she couldn't bear the though of living without magic, which is understandable, but it's not good for her.

(Sidenote: I still find it really odd to bring Willow back to that dependency in the first place, after she tried so hard to overcome it.)
 
WakingNightmare said:
Yhea, and I thought Willow was past her dependence on magic but she wanted to protect the seed in order to keep magic safe which just proves that she's become too relient on it. The seed needed to be destroyed, to guarantee that Twilight wouldn't have a path to this world and Willow wouldn't let it happen because she couldn't bear the though of living without magic, which is understandable, but it's not good for her.

(Sidenote: I still find it really odd to bring Willow back to that dependency in the first place, after she tried so hard to overcome it.)
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Willow had overcome it though, Willow hadn't a moment of weakness but she didn't revert back to season 6 Willow, Willow acted in self peservation, a little selfishness, but that doesn't mean that the situation isn't ambiqious it is Frayverse shows how this new world brought on by the recent events is not a great place to be, at least not in the long run as Willow stated in issue#40, and TOYL demonstrates this. There is a world of difference between the Willow of season 6 and season 8, and one slip up does not make all the character developement between season 6 and 8 go away. I'm really actually looking forward to Willow trying to bring magic back, and she probably will because of who she is, and not because of her craving for magic and power, but to do it for the world and for some personal reasons like her feelings for Alwuyn won't comment on that too much not sure what to make of it. I'm pretty certain that we aren't going to be getting a Willow dependent on magic storyline in season 9, more like Willow brings it back for Alwuyn, the slayers, the witches, and for the world. I also believe Willow isn't defined by her magic but its a part of her that has lead to great things, and if she chooses to have a normal life like she talked about in Retreat it will because she gave up her magic willingly for the 3rd time(season 6 and Retreat), she also couldn't give it up in season 7 because it was a part of her not an addiction like Giles said in Lessons, just not seeing it happening not this way at least, its seems wrong even if it was to save the world, and no way am I saying magic is worth any hypothetical fictional characters life either.
 
citiegal17 said:
Willow had overcome it though, Willow hadn't a moment of weakness but she didn't revert back to season 6 Willow, Willow acted in self peservation, a little selfishness, but that doesn't mean that the situation isn't ambiqious it is Frayverse shows how this new world brought on by the recent events is not a great place to be, at least not in the long run as Willow stated in issue#40, and TOYL demonstrates this. There is a world of difference between the Willow of season 6 and season 8, and one slip up does not make all the character developement between season 6 and 8 go away. I'm really actually looking forward to Willow trying to bring magic back, and she probably will because of who she is, and not because of her craving for magic and power, but to do it for the world and for some personal reasons like her feelings for Alwuyn won't comment on that too much not sure what to make of it. I'm pretty certain that we aren't going to be getting a Willow dependent on magic storyline in season 9, more like Willow brings it back for Alwuyn, the slayers, the witches, and for the world.
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I could call it a moment of weakness if Willow had relized what she tried too do was wrong, but three months later, she's still bitter. But, then again that's understandable, like Willow actions were. Understandable, but not right.

And I too look forward to Willow trying to bring magic back, not for herself but the fact the world really does need magic in it. I'm sure she will anyway, cause I can't imagine Willow just brooding about it.
 
C
citiegal17
I think were on the same page now, season 9 should be interesting.
The dialogue in this issue was damn near perfect Buffy.
The arc still throws me through a bit of confusion with it's explanation but It did clear up a few things about Angel for me, it really does make it clear that Angel wasn't in control when he killed Giles, Twilight was completely in control of him.
Clearly he wont let that go, but at least it makes it easier to continue liking Angel as a character.

I don't really understand why the Slayers turned on Buffy. It never really seemed to show them focused on the Mythology of the Slayer, and now their all pissed that Buffy closed the Slayer line.
 
Are we back to the "magic as a drug" thing? Because magic seems like it's way too important to Willow... I mean, Buffy fixed the world, won the battle. Yet it's all about Willow?!

I LOVE that Giles left Buffy the book, though. And I LOVE Faith taking care of Angel. And Buffy being The Slayer again is awesome.
 
I kinda agree that Willow was acting selfishly wanting to protect the Seed, but I also think Buffy acted a bit to rashly destroying it like that, she couldn't fully comprehend the importance magic has in the running of the world.
It'd also be interesting to see Buffy's reaction if she were disconnected from her power.

Without Magic that would mean theres no more Powers That Be interacting with the world steering good, the universe is essentially shut off from all others and with no magic flowing in there's only bits and pieces left. To me that sounds like universe will eventually fall in on iteself, which is maybe what we were seeing with Fray.
 
Buffy Summers said:
I think Buffy would be ecstatic to be disconnected from her power, if that meant the world was normal and she could live a normal life lol
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I think she would at first but I think she'd eventually get antsy and want to get back to protecting the world.
 
Buffy's back to waitressing, as if that's the only job a high-school graduate can do. But the hours are flexible. "On the plus side, I'm not... wearing a hat with a chicken on it...." No, it had a cow face on it, with a chicken tail. How did the writers forget this vital detail?

Giles leaving almost everything to Faith and snubbing Buffy is just a trope of advice columns. I love the Book of Vampyr, but have we ever actually seen anyone open it? (Plot twist: Buffy tries reading it at last, and finds a key to a safety-deposit box with a fortune in it!)

I like that Spike shows up to deliver one of his patented "I believe in you" speeches. Buffy needed to hear that. I felt sure that she had invited Spike into Giles's apartment in S4, but I just checked, and it doesn't show the invite. It does seem if magic has disappeared that the invite thing shouldn't be needed anymore.

And now Buffy has to fight other slayers as well as vampires. This is the end of S8, but really does feel like the beginning of S9. It has a whole different feel to it, and is a breath of fresh air.
 
Stake fodder said:
Buffy's back to waitressing, as if that's the only job a high-school graduate can do. But the hours are flexible. "On the plus side, I'm not... wearing a hat with a chicken on it...." No, it had a cow face on it, with a chicken tail. How did the writers forget this vital detail?

Giles leaving almost everything to Faith and snubbing Buffy is just a trope of advice columns. I love the Book of Vampyr, but have we ever actually seen anyone open it? (Plot twist: Buffy tries reading it at last, and finds a key to a safety-deposit box with a fortune in it!)

I like that Spike shows up to deliver one of his patented "I believe in you" speeches. Buffy needed to hear that. I felt sure that she had invited Spike into Giles's apartment in S4, but I just checked, and it doesn't show the invite. It does seem if magic has disappeared that the invite thing shouldn't be needed anymore.

And now Buffy has to fight other slayers as well as vampires. This is the end of S8, but really does feel like the beginning of S9. It has a whole different feel to it, and is a breath of fresh air.
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Wouldn't be the only one. Joss admitted he forgot that Warren was already dead when he brought him back for this
 
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