How Memorable Is Buffy?

Probably the episode of Riley's that stays with me most is the one where he stakes Spike with the fake stake. That is an act of such dispicableness. I think a case could have been made for actually killing Spike on more than one occasion, (though there would be no justification for killing him for telling the truth other than plain vindictive rage) but I don't think cruelty is ever justified and that staking is seriously cruel, both physically and psychologically. Don't toy with your food, predator!

That is a Mengele-grade Nazi kind of act... that Riley could actually have a fake stake is a sign of a mind that is seriously sadistic depravity. I find myself wondering how many times he fake staked vampires to be cruel before killing them... It is the sort of act I expect of an UnSub on Criminal Minds NOT one of the so called 'good guys'. Honestly, I don't think Angelus did anything that turned my stomach the same way and he was pretty awful.

At that point, any empathy I ever had for Riley was gone for good. Initially, when he approached Willow to find out what Buffy liked... though it was a bit obsessive, it was also kind of cute... I didn't really 'want him as Buffy's beau' but I didn't think he was awful.

His trajectory... the spoiled little boy who wanted Buffy to worry about his feelings when her mother was circling the drain... nope. Did not like him.

The 'man' who got out of his lover's bed and went to get get sucked off by vampires... so much YUCK there...

Of course, we should have known it would end badly... Riley was so unhinged as to try to avoid the life-saving surgery so he could stay 'strong enough' for Buffy... And Riley was jealous of Dracula... seriously?

Buffy made herself so small for him... was afraid to impugn his precious manhood. Funny Xander was always weak compared to Buffy and yet, he's strong enough to simply accept that he's not Buffy... and never expected Buffy to dumb down to make him 'feel better'. No one is right for you if they make you feel that 'you are too much'... and Riley did this pretty much right out of the gate.

I really wish that Xander hadn't convinced Buffy to lower herself to run after that piece of pond scum... but then Xander really never knew Riley and I think lived vicariously through his 'strong soldier' avatar. I think to Xander, Riley represented the aspirational Xander... We, the audience, and Spike especially, saw the other side of Spike...

And of course, Riley comes back at the hardest time for Buffy and makes her feel even smaller. I really hate him after that episode. I feel sorry for his wife Sam, who I actually like. She deserves better. She's stronger than he is. He just hasn't figured that out yet.

Blue

Riley isn't forgettable... but the things I remember aren't memories I really need in my head.
This, and your next post, has gotta be satire or parody. 🤣 It’s like an assemblage of all the most biased/twisted criticisms of Riley. It’s even more funny when it comes from people defending Spike.

Honestly, I thought you were joking around for a bit then realized you were serious. Riley, cruel? Comparing him to Angelus? 😆

Riley was the best and most stable boyfriend Buffy had in the show. The dislike/hatred for him is both ridiculous and over the top.

As for OP, Buffy is very memorable. Extremely quotable, iconic characters, unforgettable episodes.
 
As for OP, Buffy is very memorable. Extremely quotable, iconic characters, unforgettable episodes
I think there's some episodes that are forgettable, which I guess was my question.
 
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Tome
Tome
Oh yea, some of the episodes in season 7 just blend together in your mind sometimes.
@hoponlilmama.

Writers made me feel that there was something missing in Riley and Adam's storyline before they got rid of them.

Smallville shaped my childhood standards for entertainment. John Glover, Michael Rosenbaum, Erica Durance, Tom Welling when Clark Kent is on red kryptonite, and Cassidy Freeman are my favorites on the show. At the start, its first couple of seasons are a bit corny. But it gets better afterwards, I promise. Rarely do I find myself liking a show more than 3-4 seasons in. But this one got me hooked.
 
Riley was the best and most stable boyfriend Buffy had in the show. The dislike/hatred for him is both ridiculous and over the top.

Best and most stable boyfriend for Buffy? Seriously? It's not April Fools day, so I'm guessing you're actually serious. Have you considered a career in stand-up comedy? Asking for a friend.

Riley was insecure, possessive, demanding, and a complete moron. Sure, everything was lovely at first...but once he discovered Buffy was stronger than him, things changed. He realised that his girlfriend could beat his ass (if she so desired) and his fragile ego could NOT handle that fact.

As for him visiting the vamp brothel to drown his sorrows in blood and debauchery... this DEFINITELY illustrates what a complete tool he is. And last but not least, bringing his new chick to Sunnydale was beyond tacky.
 
spikenbuffy
spikenbuffy
I think it started to go downhill when he learnt about Bangel
Best and most stable boyfriend for Buffy? Seriously? It's not April Fools day, so I'm guessing you're actually serious. Have you considered a career in stand-up comedy? Asking for a friend.

Riley was insecure, possessive, demanding, and a complete moron. Sure, everything was lovely at first...but once he discovered Buffy was stronger than him, things changed. He realised that his girlfriend could beat his ass (if she so desired) and his fragile ego could NOT handle that fact.

As for him visiting the vamp brothel to drown his sorrows in blood and debauchery... this DEFINITELY illustrates what a complete tool he is. And last but not least, bringing his new chick to Sunnydale was beyond tacky.
Yes! By a long shot! Did we watch the same show? 🤣 There were good elements to both Bangel and Spuffy, but those relationships were questionable, chaotic, toxic (especially in the case of Spuffy), and dangerous for Buffy and the Scoobies. Isn't that why sooo many people cared more about those? Because they caused a ton of drama, conflict, and heartbreaks, and that was entertaining for the viewing experience? Even the show made it clear over and over that Buffy 'prefered' dangerous guys that hurt her and made her cry.

Riley definitely had flaws. He was stubborn. It took him a while to learn how to critically think for himself. He could be insecure about his relationship with Buffy. However, none of that compares to the shit that went down with Bangel and Spuffy. Buffy and Riley just had real life problems that a couple might have to talk through and grow through. He never put her life at risk or tried to hurt her. He wasn't dangerous for Buffy's family and friends. He was always there for her. The other two guys could never say the same.

The truth is, you (and other Riley haters) have to use hyperbole every time you want to successfully make him appear/sound worse than he was. Especially in contrast to Angel and Spike. Did it bother him that he couldn't be Super-Soldier anymore after the Initiative? Yes. He admitted himself that not being on par with Buffy strength-wise bothered him a little bit. However, from the get go what attracted him to her was her headstrong personality, her taking charge in difficult situations. He specifically highlighted that. Is it possible that Riley was a little bit more nuanced and complicated than what people like you want to make him sound like? Hmm. Maybe.

Also, Riley was right to feel a little insecure sometimes. Take the issue he had with Buffy not being emotionally intimate with him, Riley had a point there. Buffy was a lot more closed off with him than with Angel, for example. That wasn't on Riley. He had reasons to be unsatisfied in that relationship. That's why he ended up leaving. Buffy even admitted that this was a flaw of hers in 'Conversation with Dead People'.

As for him being possessive, so were Angel and Spike. More so, in fact. And, anyway, I doubt this part bothered you at all when it came to them. 🤣 You're picking and choosing when a behavior like that bothers you.

The "suck jobs" was definitely a low point for Riley. He should have just talked to Buffy instead of doing that. That was a mistake on his part. I won't defend that.

But yea, still the best, most stable guy Buffy had a relationship with in the show. He was kind, wholesome, attentive, and protective, among other positive traits.
 
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hoponlilmama
hoponlilmama
I think people are too harsh on Riley. Nor do I think he was threatened by Buffy's physical strength.
@hoponlilmama.

Writers made me feel that there was something missing in Riley and Adam's storyline before they got rid of them.
The Adam situation I touched on briefly, I think it was the loss of Walsh and the sudden pivot to this new Big Bad that caused the issue, I think.

Adam needed more to do, a clearer goal, not get philosophical with Spike.



Smallville shaped my childhood standards for entertainment. John Glover, Michael Rosenbaum, Erica Durance, Tom Welling when Clark Kent is on red kryptonite, and Cassidy Freeman are my favorites on the show. At the start, its first couple of seasons are a bit corny. But it gets better afterwards, I promise. Rarely do I find myself liking a show more than 3-4 seasons in. But this one got me hooked.
I will keep that in mind when I eventually get to it! Got a few other TV shows I'd like to tackle first.
 
Best and most stable boyfriend for Buffy? Seriously? It's not April Fools day, so I'm guessing you're actually serious. Have you considered a career in stand-up comedy? Asking for a friend.

Riley was insecure, possessive, demanding, and a complete moron. Sure, everything was lovely at first...but once he discovered Buffy was stronger than him, things changed. He realised that his girlfriend could beat his ass (if she so desired) and his fragile ego could NOT handle that fact.

As for him visiting the vamp brothel to drown his sorrows in blood and debauchery... this DEFINITELY illustrates what a complete tool he is. And last but not least, bringing his new chick to Sunnydale was beyond tacky.
I was going to respond to the person who wrote about my 'Riley hatred'. I don't hate him. I think he's a pathetic person who can't handle the idea of a girlfriend who is a better human than him and a stronger and more competent fighter who has saved the world many times to his ZERO.

This totally sums up Riley (thank you!!):

Riley was insecure, possessive, demanding, and a complete moron. Sure, everything was lovely at first...but once he discovered Buffy was stronger than him, things changed. He realised that his girlfriend could beat his ass (if she so desired) and his fragile ego could NOT handle that fact.

He simply is UNQUALIFIED to be the partner of anyone with any power. He cannot deal. He's a lot like a lot of men and some women... they don't want anyone to be 'above' them in anyway... even if that person isn't trying to lord it over them.

The truth in the military is that there's always someone better, faster and stronger. He could not handle losing his edge. If he'd been regular military he's the guy who would have been doing steroids. Just no. That's not someone who has any sense or any self worth or even self preservation.

Giles undercut Buffy at times, but he never fails to see her power, or to see that she has value as a person and as a fighter. Riley's demand that Buffy's role be 'girlfriend' before 'slayer' or 'sister' or 'daughter' is ridiculous... All relationships are give and take but Riley expected his 'wifey' to 'fall in' and obey orders. We saw how he treated his actual wife... someone who WAS weaker than him... and he was dishonest to both Buffy AND his wife in that episode... Were I his wife, I would have felt really disrespected both by his pulling 'rank' and his flirtation with Buffy while not bothering to tell Buffy he was married.

Buffy is well rid of him.

Sorry, I can't compare Riley with Spike. There's NO comparison. After the soul, Spike dies for the planet... but even before Spike SACRIFICES for Buffy without a soul (and her little sister) and takes care of Dawn when Buffy was dead and not coming back, simply because of a promise he made to a dead woman who had stated she did not and never could love him. Spike came to Buffy to help her save the planet when they were enemies... yes, he did it for selfish reasons, but he did do it and the result was that Acathla was stopped. All that makes SPIKE orders of magnitude better than Riley. And Spike also sacrificed over and over for his mad girlfriend. Anyone here ever care for someone with serious mental and physical illness who could not be faithful? it's not pretty. So again... this makes him better, IMO.

Even though they were exes by then, when Buffy's mum died, Angel showed up to comfort Buffy... EVEN though there was nothing he could get from that. That makes Angel better in my sight than Riley. And whatever we think of Angel's sometimes erratic behaviour when he first arrives in Buffy's life... remember that after living on the streets for decades he wasn't equipped to be around ANYONE. He still helped... Buffy helped him find his way back to being a social 'person'... but until Angelus, Angel always helped, no matter the state of the 'romance'.

Oh, and Angel went on to save the world multiple times with his teams. Whatever his flaws and they are many (this is the human condition btw), he's a bona fide hero and champion.

** We overcome IN SPITE of our flaws. **

Riley got a bug up his butt and instead of working with the scoobies, he flew off in a big 'manhood' show and went to a vamp nest alone to prove to himself he could 'kill them all' ALL BY HIMSELF.... That's idiotic and suicidal. NOT STABLE. Not remotely sane.

I'm not a Bangel fan, but frankly, I think it was always clear that Angel always saw Buffy as a woman of power. I think he got involved with her when he did because neither he nor Buffy expected her to live long enough to have a 'full life'... so he was what she 'could' have... Neither knew it would end with his demon taking center stage. He might not have been able to bring things home for an adult relationship after she killed him and he came back from hell even more broken than before - and he didn't know how he could get his soul anchored but he ALWAYS loved her and RESPECTED who she was.

I don't believe Riley loved her. He loved being with this 'special' woman... His TROPHY... as long as she did not show him up and knew her place and 'made him feel needed'. In my opinion, it's Buffy who he thinks should play 'girlfriend'... he never really played 'boyfriend'. he was too selfish to be there for her.

It is no surprise that Buffy did NOT turn to Riley for support. He wasn't emotionally capable of anything more than getting resentful when she didn't 'do it right'. Sadly, I know men like him.

In my book, any man who cheats on his woman and PUTS HER LIFE and her friend's lives at risk is a sleaze of the Nth order. HE got SUCKED OFF by vampires in suck houses for pleasure... and could at any time have showed up at her door as a vampire.... he could easily have turned ANY OF THEM - he was bigger and stronger than all but two people... Buffy and Spike. Only Giles and Willow had any chance of fighting him off... Giles with skills and magic and Willow with magic... Dawn was a little girl. But none of them would have seen it coming.

What he did was worse than going out and having unprotected sex... it was sexual and a violation of the boyfriend code - they had an agreement as a couple to be faithful. It was also a life threatening act. HE WAS like a man having unprotected sex with people he KNEW were infected with AIDS and coming home and sleeping with his GF. B/C there was no instance he did this that he did not put everyone in danger.

Which means
Riley's behaviour put the planet at risk... because had he killed or turned Buffy, the world might well have been without a guardian and protector. This is not the behaviour of a good and decent man OR a good soldier, who swears to protect and defend others (his country).

US army oath:
I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God. (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).
the above is taken from here: (also find a lot more about military and warrior values and morals here)

And it was a slap in the face of the slayer and everything she stood for. So, that's slimy act number... not sure what number...

Stable? Seriously? Stable people don't play Russian Roulette by vampire nor do they gamble with other people's lives as well.

And yes, cruel. As I said, Spike in several instances after the chip might have justifiably been staked... but crushing someone's heart and basically torturing them with the terror of death... that's cruel. That's an unhinged act. Depraved indifference. Because he was angry. I wouldn't do that cruelty to an animal. Doing it to any creature with human intelligence and the ability to feel pain and terror... That is TORTURE. In war that kind of thing would probably be considered a war crime.

In my opinion, Spike would have been justified in shooting him after that. But... Spike didn't. Which again makes him a better man. If someone stabbed me in the chest in cold blood, I am not sure what I'd do... but I'd want them off the street and not hurting anyone at minimum.

______________________EDIT:________________


To those who accuse some of us of loving the drama? Maybe some do. I actually don't like most other vampire based shows for that very reason. I actually don't think either Bangel or Spuffy are ideal relationships... though I do think both of them brought more to Buffy's life than Riley. Angel supported the new slayer as she grew into her power... remember that first season when she didn't know her strength and even Xander had to help her escape that tunnel...

Spike probably saved Buffy's life. Is sleeping with a bad boy a good way to deal with depression? Probably not, but it's way better than doing drugs, committing suicide or drinking to excess. He gave her sex, a degree of connection when she couldn't connect to the people who dragged her from heaven and left her in her COFFIN, a sounding board, and when she was about to hand herself over to the cops, he stopped her... (which she thanked him for... by giving him the beating of his unlife and left him for dead in an alley... No wonder Spike thought violence was a way to get thru to Buffy! Nope, no justification for what he did... or for what Buffy did to him, something NO one ever says anything about). If she'd handed herself in, there would have been no slayer, no protector for Dawn and possibly, Warren could have killed her in her cell.

Before they even got together he saved her sister at risk of his unlife and he saved her from dancing herself to death by Sweet... No, I wouldn't want my daughter ending up with either of them, but I would prefer either by a country mile compared to a dishonest, weak and selfish Riley. who was a sulky little boy who didn't value the queen he had in his life.

As a woman who has lived a long time and been in several adult relationships... the ones with toxic people who were willing and able to change actually worked better than those with perfect little 'momma's boys' who didn't think they needed to look at themselves at all. A relationship is what it can become.

Angel saw he couldn't give Buffy even what he wanted to give her and he left -- and he kept on changing and growing and ended up with true friends.

Spike saw (after the most appalling proof of the absolute failure of soullessness to offer anything good to anyone human) he was failing at 'human' and went a fought for his soul.

Riley got suck jobs and when she found out and didn't like it, he gave her an ULTIMATUM... take me back as i am or I am leaving... And then came back a year later, already with another woman in tow and he didn't seem to think this was a horrid thing to do to the woman he cheated on then abandoned as she went into the hardest fight of her life (that killed her). Wonder if he could have helped her survive had he been there trying to protect Dawn from Glory?? (On his return to Sunnydale, he didn't even say 'hi slayer, i'm married now, I am only in need of you as the slayer, is that ok?) NO self awareness whatsoever.

In the course of the series both Angel and Spike GREW immensely. Riley actually became LESS.
 
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Anyanka Bunny Slayer
Anyanka Bunny Slayer
I love how you managed to use the term 'SUCKED OFF' in your post. Well done!!! 😅😅😅
The Adam situation I touched on briefly, I think it was the loss of Walsh and the sudden pivot to this new Big Bad that caused the issue, I think.

Adam needed more to do, a clearer goal, not get philosophical with Spike.
Yeah, they messed up big time. Unlike season 3, everything was introduced in a cluster jam including characters here. Focusing on Spike more than others doesn't help, either.
I will keep that in mind when I eventually get to it! Got a few other TV shows I'd like to tackle first.
Ah, yes. I've been in that situation before. Even though I watched some reruns of BTVS on cable television, they were from season 4 when Spike got chipped. But when I realized how better the Angel series was, watching season 1 of BTVS made sense to me for understanding its lore. I waited until many years later when Netflix had BTVS to watch its seasons before watching the Angel series. Was definitely worth the wait.
 
hoponlilmama
hoponlilmama
I don't think they focused on Spike too much in s4. Now if we're discussing s7, that's a different story...
@hoponlilmama, they could have added more Tara scenes to flesh out her character development much better. But instead, Spike got some spotlight for his character's development. Just felt like they added Tara in there and she didn't do enough. But that's just me.
 
The majority of the actors showed great quality of acting, that is what the viewers saw and why the viewers kept watching the show despite the very poor directing/ continuation.
It makes me wonder why the director was allowed to direct the marvel films
 
@hoponlilmama, they could have added more Tara scenes to flesh out her character development much better. But instead, Spike got some spotlight for his character's development. Just felt like they added Tara in there and she didn't do enough. But that's just me.
Tara deserved a bit more time, but probably not in s4. I love s4 Spike, still snarky and funny too.
S5 is where it all goes pear-shaped...


The majority of the actors showed great quality of acting, that is what the viewers saw and why the viewers kept watching the show despite the very poor directing/ continuation.
It makes me wonder why the director was allowed to direct the marvel films
First Avengers film JW did was great. Age of Ultron? Not so much.
 
I think the current Marvel 'phases' are wishing for Age Of Ultron ratings/writing quality/accolades right now. The biggest controversy of that film was a single Black Widow quote.
 
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