You're beneath me

[redtent]

Ok, so I just completed BTVS for the first time, and I wonder what others think about this.
In Fool for love, when Buffy says to Spike "You're beneath me", does she say it because Spike told her that Cecily said the same words to him, or do you think it is a coincidence? Because I keep thinking about it, and it sound so cruel for Buffy would to say that. Maybe she deliberately tried to hurt him even more than just reject him. What do you think?

 

[SunnydaleGlitz]

That's so cool that you've completed BtVS for the first time!! 💓Did you watch in order?? Do you have a favourite season yet? 🙂

Re: "beneath me" - we don't know for certain, but it was probably coincidental. I don't think Spike actually revealed to Buffy he was rejected by Cecily, or that she used those words. The flashbacks we saw were somewhat at odds with Spike's account - he started by saying "I've always been bad".

So he may just have omitted that part. Buffy probably didn't know it was the most hurtful thing she could have said, given his history.

 

[redtent]

Wow, thank you! Yes, I watched it in order and I am going to watch AtS next. When I was in elementary school, I watched some episodes on tv, but never all the seasons, until now. For now, my favourite seasons are 2 and 5, but I am starting to like season 6 more and more. I plan to do a complete rewatch in summer.

On the topic: Now that I think about it, If it is coincidental, it makes it even more sad.

 

[Btvs fan]

I think that was a coincidence, I doubt Spike would tell Buffy about that, why would he 🤷‍♂️

 

[KatrinaL]

I agree, I think that it was coincidental. But I also think that Buffy was trying to hurt him.

The issue is that so far we've seen Spike telling the Scoobies that he hates them and he has been telling Buffy that he wants to kill her. So, in principle, words exchanged between them don't emotionally damage each other.

However, as the audience, we've seen Spike fall for Buffy. Suddenly words have a real meaning. I see Buffy's words not "worse" than telling him that "he's a pig" or "a pain in the ass." However, they cut deep because now we know that there are feelings, and we have the background story. I see her doing it on purpose, but not really expecting to hurt him. Does it make sense?

 

[vznspike]

Yeah she didn't know exactly how hurtful that would be to him, in her defence she couldn't as she wasn't aware of his feelings for her at the time, nor that those exacts words were the quote of his rejection centuries beforehand.

As someone who closely relates to Spike throughout the series, I imagine the words hurt me as much as they hurt him, but as an audience member I never held it against Buffy. For me it has the same tone in her mind as when she ripped the cash in half at his request of half of it upfront in Out Of My Mind

 

[r2dh2]

Yeah she didn't know exactly how hurtful that would be to him, in her defence she couldn't as she wasn't aware of his feelings for her at the time, nor that those exacts words were the quote of his rejection centuries beforehand.

As someone who closely relates to Spike throughout the series, I imagine the words hurt me as much as they hurt him, but as an audience member I never held it against Buffy. For me it has the same tone in her mind as when she ripped the cash in half at his request of half of it upfront in Out Of My Mind

I agree. As much as I love Spuffy and as much as it pains me how Buffy treats Spike in S5 (post-awareness of romantic feelings), it is within character for Buffy. They've been antagonistic for such a long time that bickering is expected and she keeps treating him as before. But as the audience and as somebody who likes Spike and roots for Spuffy, their interaction is painful to watch sometimes.

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

The phrase makes zero sense without that piece of trivia. I mean, that's not a common thing for an American to say.

 

[r2dh2]

I was thinking about this thread and some thoughts jumped out regarding the metaphorical meaning of the recurring phrase “beneath you” and about some of its consequences (maybe I’m stretching them out a bit, but I’ve always had questions about this recurring topic).

1. First, within the FFL episode, we are presented with two pieces of information. Cecily rejects William, effectively rejecting the man. Buffy rejects Spike, effectively rejecting the demon. I think that Spike has to face the rejection of his human self and his demon self. He’s pushed away (by them) because he’s a lesser entity. More importantly, the rejection always comes from the object of his affection: Cecil and Buffy (although his vampire mother and Drusilla also reject him). These rejections can explain his extremely enraged response: getting a weapon for killing Buffy.

2. The show, however, purposely uses the phrase in several occasions after that, the most recognized one is The First’s motto “From Beneath You, It Devours,” which is reinforced by having a doggy-eating worm when first introduced: “there is something coming soon, and it comes from a place of evilness, lurking beneath us.”

3. The other well-known occasion is the episode “Beneath You.” In the church, Buffy tries to touch the chest of shirtless Spike, he recoils as Buffy attempts to touch him. He pushes her hand away and then goes on rambling about only being “flesh” to her. Ensouled!Spike *finally* realizes that he was merely convenient in the past (just as Buffy stated in S6). In other words, he accepts that he has been beneath Buffy all along: “She’d never lower herself that far” (having a real relationship with him -- Seeing Red S6). But more importantly, after getting his soul he also believes that he’s still beneath Buffy, possibly at the same level of the Big Bad lurking in the shadows:

Spike: And - and now everybody's in here, talking. Everything I did...everyone I - and him...and it...the other, the thing beneath - beneath you. It's here too. Everybody. They all just tell me go...go...to hell.

4. Now, moving into the last scene of the episode where Spike reveals that he has a soul, he ends his monologue by asking Buffy if they can rest now. This phrase brings to mind the song of Spike in OMWF: “he wants to rest in peace.” However, the only way for resting in peace (or being "free of life" -- Gone S6) is by dying and thus by being placed “beneath people,” aka buried.

5. I also see another metaphor tied directly to nature of demons in the Buffverse. As a vampire, Spike is beneath humans by definition (“the animal inside? Always the same” -- Potentials S7). By introducing a trigger into Spike’s mind, The First is making use of the Monster/Ensouled!Spike, who is effectively still beneath humanity (still not a man, not a monster -- Smashed S6).

6. Lastly, a slightly more complex metaphor is Buffy’s statement that she feels “beneath them (boyfriends and friends)” because she feels ashamed of feeling superior. But we could also interpret that phrase as Buffy perceiving herself as a lesser being too and it might later help her accept more easily the revelation that she’s given in “Get it Done:” her power is indeed rooted in darkness, which is beneath us.