Episode Discussion 1.01 "Ghost" - Aired 2/13/09 (FOX-US)

[Lindsey McDonald]

I'd say 19 was a reasonable number...there weren't that many, were there?

Actually, make that 18. Forgot about Alpha.

No, wait, what if Amy is actually Delta or some other ex-active. That's 17. Maybe someone should go count. I really don't remember seeing that many, and there were other people wandering about - handlers and the likes.

 

[nerd4hire]

I just remembered the name of the other active from the promo for the original pilot. It was Victor. How many dolls is that then?

In The Island the names of the main characters were Lincoln Six Echo / Tom Lincoln, and Jordan Two Delta / Sarah Jordan.

I saw a spy show last night where they numbered agents. The main character was XIII.

 

[AndrewCrossett]

I'd say 19 was a reasonable number...there weren't that many, were there?

Actually, make that 18. Forgot about Alpha.

No, wait, what if Amy is actually Delta or some other ex-active. That's 17. Maybe someone should go count. I really don't remember seeing that many, and there were other people wandering about - handlers and the likes.

Assuming they go in alphabetical order, with some names reserved for men and some for women, they're up to "V" (Victor) for men, and "S" (Sierra) for women. But Dolls are only there for a limited time, so probably they re-use names.

The fact they use alphabetic names probably means they have a maximum of 26 at a time, but not all the names are necessarily taken at any given time.

 

[Lindsey McDonald]

I just remembered the name of the other active from the promo for the original pilot. It was Victor. How many dolls is that then?

In The Island the names of the main characters were Lincoln Six Echo / Tom Lincoln, and Jordan Two Delta / Sarah Jordan.

I saw a spy show last night where they numbered agents. The main character was XIII.

Ah, I'm forgetting, they don't have to do it like hurricanes, do they? They could go through the masculine names faster than the feminine ones, couldn't they? So, judging on Sierra being the latest female, and Victor being the latest male, that would place us at 20. Tango and Uniform would have to be designated as feminine, otherwise it doesn't make sense why we have a Victor and a new Sierra. Minus one for Alpha, and we're at roughly 19 (possibly 18 if Amy's character was Delta). Although, if Amy's character was Delta (considering Bravo and Charlie aren't exactly feminine names) that would imply that Bravo and Charlie have served their time too... So we'd be at only 16 then.


Of course, they could be named at random. I hope not though.

---------- Post added at 05:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:58 PM ----------

Assuming they go in alphabetical order, with some names reserved for men and some for women, they're up to "V" (Victor) for men, and "S" (Sierra) for women. But Dolls are only there for a limited time, so probably they re-use names.

The fact they use alphabetic names probably means they have a maximum of 26 at a time, but not all the names are necessarily taken at any given time.

I got the impression that Alpha was Doll number 1, and so they are still on cycle number 1. But that's just a guess.

And weren't they on a fixed term? For some reason I'm remembering 5 years, but I could be making that up. If that's the case, there shouldn't be any gaps, unless a doll was killed in action.

 

[definition of insane]

Okay, I vaguely remember the beginning where Caroline was told at the end of her 5 year term she'd have the option to go either stay or go....so depending on how long the dollhouse has been operational, perhaps (if they were telling the truth about that) Echo might be like the 2nd Echo they've activated? But I'm also thinking that there are a bunch of people that aren't actives that are needed for this sort of operation (handlers, technicians, medics, etc). Also assuming that there are cases where actives have died in battle as well....I don't know, just a rambling thought.

 

[Lindsey McDonald]

Now that I think about it, Whiskey, X-ray, Yankee and Zulu are all conceivably masculine, so we could possibly have another four kicking about. How bad would that be though, to become a kickass doll with friends with names like Echo, Sierra, India, or Delta...and you get X-Ray. Or Golf. Golf. Yes, Golf.

You wait. Circa season 3, if this takes off, Golf will leave the Dollhouse for LA. Golf: the Series. It's gonna be MASSIVE.

At least they don't remember their names...

 

[WhiteHat]

Some posters have raised very interesting questions about the naming conventions shown thus far. I just assumed that the Dollhouse was new enough that the Actives shown are the first and only generation. I think if Joss revealed that Echo was in fact, say, Echo-Nine, and Sierra was really Sierra-Twenty Eight it would potentially confuse viewers. It would certainly befuddle me! 😀

 

[Lindsey McDonald]

Some posters have raised very interesting questions about the naming conventions shown thus far. I just assumed that the Dollhouse was new enough that the Actives shown are the first and only generation. I think if Joss revealed that Echo was in fact, say, Echo-Nine, and Sierra was really Sierra-Twenty Eight it would potentially confuse viewers. It would certainly befuddle me! 😀

I agree. There's no need to make things unecessarily confusing. I mean, we don't really know how far into her five years Caroline is - I'd assume it was near the end. Otherwise, it wouldn't make so much sense for her personality to be re-surfacing. Also, having her be only the fifth doll ever made makes it more understandable why she's not quite right.

Moreover, I think around 6-10 years is a reasonable amount of time for the FBI to get wind and start an investigation, especially considering they were forced to tread softly by the higher-ups. I mean, if she was Echo 2, or even 3, think how long that would have been!

 

[Warlock Angel]

The Sierra character is probably taking the place of a previous Sierra who was killed. I don't think it really matters. I think it's okay for the audience to make that leap since it has already been revealed that the Dollhouse has an urban legend type of status in the FBI. That alone should tell you this place has been around. Also, Ecko has a relatively new handler. We don't know how new yet but you can tell that he has yet to gain the trust of his superiors. It will be interesting to find out what happened to Ecko's previous handler. I would also be curious to find out how one becomes a handler. Also what happened to Amy Acker's character's face. Will Fox keep it around long enough for us to find out?

Ugh, I'm so mad with the reviews now. How many people were probably turned off by the reviews? I hope the numbers go up. I thought Eliza did very well in the role. Her job is to make us believe that she is a character who believes she is a person she isn't. She was so convincing as Mrs. Penn. There is such a sadness to the character because we are in on it but she isn't. She is being manipulated by those around her who want to change her into whatever they desire. Good stuff. I'm sure Joss has some femme message he will want to mine with this one.

 

[Lindsey McDonald]

The Sierra character is probably taking the place of a previous Sierra who was killed. I don't think it really matters. I think it's okay for the audience to make that leap since it has already been revealed that the Dollhouse has an urban legend type of status in the FBI. That alone should tell you this place has been around. Also, Ecko has a relatively new handler. We don't know how new yet but you can tell that he has yet to gain the trust of his superiors. It will be interesting to find out what happened to Ecko's previous handler. I would also be curious to find out how one becomes a handler. Also what happened to Amy Acker's character's face. Will Fox keep it around long enough for us to find out?

I'd say 6-10+ years is more than long enough for the Dollhouse to gain Urban Legend status. I'd agree about the Handler though, he doesn't seem to have been around long. Although, I suppose that doesn't mean much - since the Doll is wiped there is no reason for there to be a relationship like between Watcher-Slayer.

 

[TabulaRasa]

I was right there in front of the tv with my chinese food ready to watch this wonderful new show that I had been impatiently waiting for all this time. Well, I watched it thru and I liked it a bunch. But wasn't sure if I loved it. Then, right after that thought I called my mother and 2 other people and while I was talking about it I was getting sooooo super excited and at that moment I realized that I not only liked it, but i LOVED it.

Now, I have some major issues to discuss of course...

First of all, I don't like Paul Ballard. I'm really sorry for those of you who do. And I'm sorry to the actor. But I don't think he was the man I'd of cast for the show. Which who knows, I could change my mind and all, but I dunno. I just...don't like him.

I LOVE Adelle Dewitt. She is awesome and evil and the Leader of the dollhouse and a woman. How awesome. I saw Lilah when I looked at her. So yes, love her. She's going to be something to watch.

Boyd, sweetie pie! Going to be my new Giles I believe. He's going to protect Echo and be that father figure with her.

Topher, total and pure evil. Ok maybe not so bad. But I know he's not a good person. He has this power trip that he's on and reminds me a lot of Warren. So, it will be interesting to see what he brings to us.

Echo...Eliza did a very good job, and I loved her in the first episode.

Sierra. I'll tell ya. If every week she was as kick a** as she was at the end of Ghost. Then she would be my favorite. But since they'll change up every show, Echo will always be. But Sierra is awesome nonetheless.

Goodness I have so much to say. I'm just trying to clear my thoughts so it can make sense when I write what I want to.

Something I don't feel good about, and it's cool and all cause it's part of the show. But I hate the fact that the women (and I'm sure men) get pimped out as...fill in the blank here....
It is really bad that that is how they are used. I know they are used for other missions and such. But imagine that? Imagine working for an organization that pimps you out. Terrible!

Victor is hilarious and when he had to say dollhouse over and over I cracked up!

And spoiler alert for anyone who hasn't seen it...

Do we believe that those people dead at the end were Echo (well, Caroline's) parents? Tis what it seemed like to me. And if anyone said that already. My bad, I need to finish reading thru this whole thread.

Which I will do right now.....

btw, I've watched Eliza dance in that dress at least 300 times. YOWSA. Thank gosh for the rewind button on DVR.

 

[AndrewCrossett]

One thing I really like about the show is how none of the Dollhouse leaders are just one-dimensional greedy villains. They actually think (or have convinced themselves) that they're really doing good for both the Dolls and the clients.

Even Topher, who carries out the most unpleasant aspects of the process, has moral misgivings which he covers up with sarcasm and gallows humor.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

I re watched it again today with a bunch of friends (I will spread it!!) and have to say I think I enjoyed it more this time.

We also all agreed on the same thing, not the best 60 mins of TV, but totally awesome and you can see it's gonna be a good series!

Anyone think there may be more of a connection between Caroline and The women who runs the DH, just from what Caroline said "Oh your loving this" - like that seemed pretty personal, like they knew each other before?

 

[atticus]

Finally got around to watching the pilot, and i think it was ok.
I'll go through the positive and the negative points. Be warned, there are more bad than good.

Positive.
. I liked the character of Langton. He seems invested in the job he has to do, and seems to care about Echo far more than his employers would like him to. The moment he talked about her finding a guy she liked, was nice. And managed to make the memory wipe more significant and sad, probably more so than Eliza's portrayal.
. Amy Acker, another interesting character, again like Langton, a character that seems to have depth. And again like Langton, can say very much with a look. You can tell there is a lot beneath the surface.
. The young girl. The kidnap victim, was great. I know, she is not a regular, but i tend to cringe, when kid actors appear. But she did really well, and you really felt for her. The simple conversation, on the phone with her dad, was probably one of the most natural performances in the show.

Negative.
. The set design. I found the Dollhouse to one of the ugliest set designs i've seen. Don't like the thought of so much of the show taking place here. Looks really cheap. I fear it will be Angel season 5 all over again. Scene after scene in front of ugly wood paneling, and windows, with a big photo of a skyline outside. No thanks.
. The characters of Adelle DeWitt, Topher Brink and Sierra, barely registered, they didn't draw me in at all.
. Paul Ballard, had a lot of screen time, and again, no impact. Dull performance. And the boxing scene, was, uh, i don't know what that was. Probably Joss figuring having his leading man, take his shirt of, has been helpful in the past.
.The opening Bike chase, was probably meant to be exciting, but seemed slow, and cheap. If there are going to be a lot of action set pieces, i hope they're directed better than this.
. And I hate to say it, i really do, but Eliza's performance just didn't work for me. The doe eyed, confused echo was silly. and the "she hurts" line, actually made me laugh, which i'm pretty sure was not what they were going for.
- The overly analytical negotiator, was dull, and trying to throw in more human moments like her asthma, seemed like a forced attempt to try and care and relate to a walking robot.
- Echo's personality, coming face to face with her kidnapper, did not work for me either. She was a dull character, so when this human side, came out it was hard to care, we didn't get to learn a thing about her. And, Eliza's one shot to get us to care, when talking about ghosts, seemed silly, and over acted. God i hate writing that, because I love Eliza.

See, so many negatives for me. Shame. But i know a pilot is a hard thing to pull of, there is a lot to fit in, in a small time frame. So i will stick with it, and hope it improves. And i won't give up on Eliza either.

 

[TabulaRasa]

Does anyone here really like Paul Ballard? Or find him highly annoying like I do?

 

[charmingslayer]

I don't like Paul(FBI guy right?)either he seems annoying.

 

[LaneMeyer]

I don't have a problem with the character, but like Angel, I think Dollhouse is better served to drop the law enforcement agency angle (I never liked Kate either). It's just too mundane for my liking.

I was someone that doubted whether Eliza's acting chops would keep me interested. I'm glad to see that's not an issue for me. I thought she did just fine. Loved Ms. Penn, especially after her 'faults' came to the forefront of the character. Plus, Eliza really delivered the key line in the episode after getting hit by that guy, "You can't fight a ghost." Great delivery by her.

I also thought the conversation Ms. Penn had with her client was excellent... especially the line, "All those horrible memories those men put into your head." Great double meaning there since she just told him about her abduction, but he was speaking of the memory implant. You could see the sympathy on his face. I liked him as an actor.. thought he had a presence.

There so many places this story can go. Topher, Adelle, and Dr. Saunders all appear to have conflicted emotions about what they're doing. Watch again how concerned Topher looks when he asks Boyd if something went wrong with Echo's first engagement (the motorcycle one). I think the only one that believe in his job 100% is the director of security (who was played brilliantly).

Completely rambling now, but I could see the Dollhouse eventually used as an instrument of good. I can see Echo as a fully developed character with memories she retains from week-to-week, thus allowing her to have a personality we (as an audience) can connect to. This thing is just getting started, and I have a feeling it could turn out to be completely different than we all expect as soon as the second season. Let's hope it gets to that.

 

[JCC]

Watching the first two minutes was the most painful experience of terrible acting and juvenile writing that I can remember for a long time. The next few minutes weren't much better, but from then on I was interested, if not entirely absorbed. I reserve complete judgment at this point, since this episode has just floated right past me without making an impact.

 

[Allycat]

I convinced my girlfriend, a non-whedonfan (yes, I know, that's bad karma for her), to watch it with me. Unfortunately, she didn't want to watch it at the first chance, so that's why I'm joining the discussion late.

I personally liked the episode. Stylistically it was reminiscent of Angel season 5. It also had hints of Tru Calling. The acting was great. I especially loved Amy and Tamoh (sp?). And the story functioned well as an opener.

My girlfriend didn't quite agree, although she didn't think it was bad necessarily, she just thought it was confusing, far-fetched, and overall strange. I'm sure that over the course of the next few episodes, I'll be able to explain to her what's what. But I'm afraid more people might have trouble understanding it and/or suspending their disbeliefs into this relatively new range of Sci-Fi.

I was most impressed with the characterizations. And they make me have hope that this show is going to catch on. I'm looking forward to the next episode.

 

[Lou]

You know, it's funny you say she was confused. My sister also seemed to be confused. Although, she also admitted to not really be watching, which I'm guessing was a big part of the problem since she didn't even notice Amy Acker.

As for Paul....
I can't say he annoyed me. I kinda liked him. But, I think it was more that he didn't seem to be getting support from his people. Maybe he'll be a Rogue Agent. That could be fun.
His part will depend a lot on what direction it takes. I also didn't like Kate...well, I liked Kate just not the police part. And I also was never thrilled with the Initiative. I'd prefer to keep authority out of it. But, maybe it will be okay. Like I said, it depends a lot on where this goes with him.