Episode Discussion 1.01 "Ghost" - Aired 2/13/09 (FOX-US)

I liked it. As far as Eliza's acting it was good. For all thos saying theyd rather see Amy give Eliza the BOTD, She didnt have drastic makeup on like that of Illyria to aid her in her performance. Not to say that Amy cant act but the makeup definitely aided in you beleiving it more. Give Eliza a chance.
 
As I was saying on irc, what if the guy isn't Alpha? What if he's some psycho that's been stalking Caroline for whatever reason (perhaps an ex lover) who she has utimately led her to hide her identity within the Dollhouse, and has now taken to murdering those in Caroline's life to try and find her?

It's a stretch...I know....but it's just a little bit possible. I love speculating!
 
definition of insane said:
As I was saying on irc, what if the guy isn't Alpha? What if he's some psycho that's been stalking Caroline for whatever reason (perhaps an ex lover) who she has utimately led her to hide her identity within the Dollhouse, and has now taken to murdering those in Caroline's life to try and find her?

It's a stretch...I know....but it's just a little bit possible. I love speculating!
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That seems like a pretty big stretch. 😉 I'm sure Caroline's reason for going to the Dollhouse is more dramatic than just some random stalker, her killing someone for example (like sweet said). Besides, don't you think getting your mind wiped is a pretty drastic measure to be used against a stalker? The guy also knows about a secret FBI investigation so random stalker seems unlikely!
 
You never know...the FBI have a lot of wierd people in there according to what you see on tv! 😉

With the FBI guy though...that talk with his superiors...he's obviously on the Dollhouse case for a reason, if they can't take him off it.....

It's all about connections....connections with psychotic stalker/murderer type people.... I could get this story to work! Honest! 😛
 
My take on the guy surround by dead bodies is that it could be someone how is trying to get revenge on Caroline becuase she may have killed someone they knew/someone important to them. Which is why she went in to the dollhouse to escape. And that person needs the dollhouse to be exposed so they can get at her. just my random thoughts 😀
 
definition of insane
definition of insane
See? Random thoughts are fun! :D
I didn't say this before, so I'll say it now.

I love the symbolism involved in the Eleanor Penn personality. That's probably worded wrong. What I mean is, I love how even though she was abused, suffered horrible trauma, and ended up killing herself, she was able to make a comeback and reclaim her power in a way, through Echo. She was able to face her abuser, stand up to him, and save a little girl from suffering the same fate that she had. I thought that was lovely, and empowering, and a great start to what I hope will be a great show.

I love how the personalities have histories. They're more than just personalities, they're people--with memories and chips on their shoulders and asthma. They may even be dead people, but they're still able to right wrongs and do things they weren't able to in life.

Of course, I feel horrible for the actual Dolls. They signed up for it, sure, but Caroline for one seemed coerced into it. The reasons why weren't explained fully, but she definitely felt like she didn't have a choice. Also, I wonder how honest the organization is. Will Caroline be let free after five years? Or will they keep her there until they can no longer use her? I don't know, but I get a sneaking feeling that the "contract" the participants sign in the beginning won't actually be upheld. I mean, the Dolls don't have any control over when they're actually released. They could be promised to be let go in five years, but they have no way of seeing to it that the Dollhouse holds up its end of the bargain.

Did the programmy guy remind anyone else of Warren? *creepy*

Oh, and I also adored the "Grr argh!" at the end. Made me squee a little. 🙂
 
Airam
Airam
loved the symbolism aspect of it too :)
Hm...
Maybe it wasn't Alpha but some guy that Faith roughed up and he now wants revenge.
(Perhaps Faith was one of Echo's earlier assignments!) 😀
 
I was kind of wondering if Caroline REALLY knew what she was signing up for. Maybe it's the whole "The Dollhouse Looks Like WR&H" but I was suspicious from the get go that she actually KNEW everything she was going into or how long it would last.
We never heard it actually explained, it just kind of skirted the issue.

Granted, she was TOLD 5 years, but for all we know, she was also told she had to agree to "medical testing" in exchange for getting the trouble she was in erased. And for all we know, she's been there for 6 years now, because if you can erase someone's mind, once their inside, you could have them extend the contract or sign something else anytime you wish.

But, I think it was more that it looked like WR&H and I was suspicious!
 
It's implied that Caroline volunteers for the program instead of jail, knowing that she will "go to sleep" for 5 years.
 
EmptyColours said:
Lol. So you're saying you were expecting the entire show, throughout its whatever-how-many seasons, to be based on Echo being wiped and reimplemented with a different personality... every episode? I mean, if so, we obviously would not have to deal with repetitiveness in the character department, but we'd get no character growth either. How would we grow to hate/love Echo if that were to happen? I say you shouldn't expect it, because the chances of it happening are incredibly frail. Even the first scene, I believe, was behind the true Echo.
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Joss explains it in a TV Guide interview.

Watch Dollhouse Joss Whedon opens up his DOLLHOUSE. - Online Video Guide

The impression I've always had is yeah it's Echo wiped, then reprogrammed, then wiped again pretty much throughout, until we hear different, but in between Echo is growing as she becomes more and more self-aware.

That doesn't mean they couldn't do something like with Prison Break where there's an evolution into a slightly different format though. In fact that wouldn't surprise me.
 
Airam
Airam
agreed, it wouldn't surprise me either and if done right it could very well work.
What I'm wondering is did they delete Caroline's imprints?
Cause if so then what's the point of letting the active go after their term if theres nothing to let them go with?
 
They probably put Carolines imprints onto a hard drive also. Saving it for when her 5 year term is up.
 
Gonna agree with TR that they probably have her personality still on file. I'm still not sure about the 5 year term thing. I think it's something they just say in order to think there is an out clause. Who's to say they don't keep them there and then just kill them off when they get too old/faulty/whatever?

Just how and where do they get these personalities to imprint on the dolls? Who knows, it's quite possible that if the situation were to arise, Caroline might in imprinted into Sierra or something.
 
Definition of Insane - Keep up your random thoughts, I like reading them. 🙂 Personally, I HOPE the guy at the end isn't Alpha. That just seems to obvious and too simple for something Joss normally writes.

definition of insane said:
Just how and where do they get these personalities to imprint on the dolls?
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That's a question I had myself. Echo was imprinted with a girl that was abused. She killed herself last year. How did they get her memories? She didn't sound like the type of character that would go to a place like that... I would have thought maybe she went there to have her memory of that incident removed, but based on the fact she killed herself, that probably didn't happen.
 
definition of insane
definition of insane
Awww shucks!
It didn't even cross my mind that the man at the end was Alpha, but it very well could be. It doesn't seem like something Joss would do, though. There was hardly any build up.
 
I want to say it's not Alpha. I can't see Joss doing that either. So, guess we'll have to see. And I doubt that their terms are really only 5 years. Especially if they become a real asset, like Echo seems to be. So, I really think that with some people they keep them around as long as they want. I doubt tho that they kill them because they need to be under the radar. Then again, they do what they do and get away with it and I'm sure have come up with tons of dead bodies and they def know how to dispose of them. So it's really just...I dunno. There is so much to think about.
 
I thought it was a pretty good pilot. It gave us some intriguing characters to contemplate about -- what, with their various motivations behind working in the Dollhouse, or in the FBI Agent's case, finding out about the dollhouse. It's also a stand-alone story, but with arc-y tones intertwined, which Joss is a pro at. I can't wait to see more of the show. Though, I don't know if I'll tape the episode or view it online.

I also found it funny that I knew all of the credited people at the beginning of the show (after the main titles).
 
So are we to assume that after 5 years of this mind crap that they just can't handle it and become vegetables? Sad really. But I'm sure some can make it past 5 years. And hope that not all veggie out on us. Cause that's really sad.

So there are a lot of theories too. We have to look at a lot of different angles when it comes to some of what we've seen. And I know it's not been long, one whole episode, but it's fun to speculate.

Alpha. Can we believe Alpha is a person? And if so, do we think Alpha is the naked guy at the end. I want to say no, too easy. But either way, who or what do you think Alpha is?
And the naked guy at the end. Who is he if not Alpha? Do we think he's a former active gone 'rogue' haha I just really wanted to say that. Or is he just some guy who knows about Dollhouse? Or found out about it, got tortured, got away? There is so much to look at there.

Also the people at the end, dead. Carolines parents? Who else besides close family would have that video of her. UNLESS...he had that video he stole of her and she's his obsession? And maybe those people he killed were some kind of Dollhouse Agents tryin to get to him to kill him, and in turn, got killed?

Some of this may make you go hmmm...and some of it may make you go, what? That makes no sense. But I have a lot going on in my mind from all this and it's because Joss' work is so complex that you have to look at every angle. And then in the end, it's never anything you thought it would be.

I mean, who the heck thought the beast could be killed with his own knife thing? I mean REALLY?!!
 
TabulaRasa said:
So are we to assume that after 5 years of this mind crap that they just can't handle it and become vegetables?
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Why do you think that? The conversation at the beginning of the episode was pretty vague but I thought it was clear that they were offering her a 5-year "contract" after which she would be free to resume her life. But some of us have been speculating that it would be much more profitable and safer to just keep them forever!

Alpha. Can we believe Alpha is a person?
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If Alpha isn't a person, then Joss has been deliberately deceiving us. Of course, I wouldn't put that past him. 😉
 
L
Lou
I kinda think that too. I mean once you have control of someone's brain the contract could go on FOREVER!
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