Episode Discussion 1.06 "Man On The Street" - Aired 3/20/09 (FOX-USA)
- Thread starter Lou
- Start date
Summerlilly
Covert Superhero
I'm so happy this thread finally started!! I'm even happier that everyone feels the same way as me! FINALLY. It was like "oh yeah, this is a Joss Whedon show...!" Hooray! I think the reason it finally drew us all in was because they focused on the Dollhouse, on the inside. Echo wasn't just doing some random job like usual, the real story line seems to be beginning. The dolls "aren't perfect", in fact they're too intelligent for their own good. Are they capable of falling on love? I like Victor, I don't fully understand him yet....
Echo as Rebecca, not how I see Eliza! ha ha She's just sooo not that. See is Eliza a chameleon actress thread for insight into that!!! 🙂 Fight sceens were AWESOME! Way more bad ass than any other Joss shows! Sorry Buffy!
I just hope they keep telling us more....and unraveling juicy details. All while of course kicking ass!
Echo as Rebecca, not how I see Eliza! ha ha She's just sooo not that. See is Eliza a chameleon actress thread for insight into that!!! 🙂 Fight sceens were AWESOME! Way more bad ass than any other Joss shows! Sorry Buffy!
I just hope they keep telling us more....and unraveling juicy details. All while of course kicking ass!
E
Edmund Blackadder
Erm, I don't mean to piss on your campfire here but I just wanted to point out not everyone feels the same way you do!
Airam
Aww, yay I'm glad you loved it!
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Carpe Spuffy!
Yes, I agree and definitely saw little Joss touches all over this episode. Whoo-hoo! Joss is back!
*does the Joss is back dance*
I also like Victor as well. Initially, this was no the case, but he's growing on me. Paul Ballard is my true love, though 😉
Edmund Blackadder
Scooby
So wait, I have a question.
Where was 'Joss' in the other episodes?
You're all seeming to be excited that there were Joss flourishes in this episode, the occasional comic moment - so why didn't he put these in the first episodes?
I always saw the Joss touches, although not as evident
What I didn't see was the Joss story up until now.
... things felt slapped together in the first few. The nature of the beast, pilots never interest me that much...i want to see things delve deep straight away...
Edmund Blackadder
Scooby
Which is fine, but people, not you obviously, are making the suggestion that Joss little flourishes weren't there and it seems to be alot of people - who will probably now back peddle and say 'I didn't mean that'.
white avenger
white avenger
I liked the fact that we're finally really getting an occasional bit of subtle comedy (Eliza's "Porn!" scene, the reaction of the interviewee's girlfriend at his comment about "getting it on with another guy," and the "Can I borrow a cup of sugar?" line, which will probably become their little private joke.) and the part where the computer genius made the blooper about "more zeroes than the Luftwaffe" and was corrected by someone who he obviously considered his intellectual inferior.
One thing that really bothers me, though, is just how tough the FBI agent seems to be. He's still got a bullet hole in his side from the week before, and he still manages to take a Taser shot (I kept getting images of Spike in Season 4 of "Buffy" being rendered helpless by the same thing. Different show, different plot device, I know, but still...) AND kick the crap out of three obviously very capable bodyguards, then a short time later have a smack down with supercharged Echo, and he doesn't even seem out of breath? This guy should be wearing tights and a cape.
One thing that really bothers me, though, is just how tough the FBI agent seems to be. He's still got a bullet hole in his side from the week before, and he still manages to take a Taser shot (I kept getting images of Spike in Season 4 of "Buffy" being rendered helpless by the same thing. Different show, different plot device, I know, but still...) AND kick the crap out of three obviously very capable bodyguards, then a short time later have a smack down with supercharged Echo, and he doesn't even seem out of breath? This guy should be wearing tights and a cape.
fly on the wall
you have but-face.
I always thought those were more mystical tasers. Or, at least, much stronger ones. They took down some pretty big demons after all, and they totally knocked out the one guy who was hit with them, remember?
But yeah, Paul does seem fairly supernatural in his physical abilities.
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Carpe Spuffy!
It just seemed like the other eps were missing that classic Joss touch; the wit, humor and emotional relatable awesomeness his others shows exhibit.
---------- Post added at 01:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:38 PM ----------
No, I totally meant what I said. I have just felt, until now, that there was something "missing" in Dollhouse.
---------- Post added at 01:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:39 PM ----------
Good point. Agent Ballard is ridiculously skilled in fighting. Do they teach all the FBI agents those mad skillz??
Fusions2
Stark Industries Employee
I know what you mean by that. When watching the first five episodes whilst they were really good it was lacking something. Then when episode 6 came it felt so much more better, you could tell there was more thought in the plotline. The humour and emotion were so much more it felt like how Dollhouse should have started. With a true bang, and now we're about to role in to episode 7 I feel there will be even more of Joss's touches. Personally I can't wait. 😀
Edmund Blackadder
Scooby
So then, I have to ask then, why didn't Joss put those into the first 5 episodes?
The 'yuks' thread that N4H put up doesn't quite cover it.
Joss isn't a comic writer, he's a writer that can be funny and humour isn't the only thing he adds to a show.
So, if 'Joss' isn't noticable in the episodes, where was he?
Was he smarting because someone else (the network) were stepping on his toes?
Was he trying to make a statement?
Was he simply not that into it to begin with?
I've read a few things on this board about Dollhouse that when added together seems like this show wasn't created because Joss really wanted to, but because the network wanted to try out the new advertising, that this was also an Eliza show reel (isn't there an interview where Joss actually says this?) and it wasn't meant to succeed.
I don't mean it was designed to fail, what I mean is that it was an experiement on many things to try out for the next season - if the show does make money on top of that, its a bonus.
Even the story seems limiting once you have Echo becoming self aware.
Airam
the network did step in and make him rework the first few episodes, they wanted them to be more stand-aloneish
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Carpe Spuffy!
I think he's just trying to go a totally different direction with this project. Maybe he wants to do something non of his fans expect of him. Who knows.
I agree about the story being limiting. Although, with this new revelation of the various Dollhouses around the globe - that opens the story up for way more development (and I imagine, a bigger budget lol).
I also think it does have something to do with what the network expects. They probobly gave him a deal where they told him he had to make a show that would appeal to the general audience - i.e. hot chicks and action and all that.
Dollhouse, thus far to me has been great..... overall. I think a lot of that is due to the newness of the 'guesswork show' to me, those that hook you on speculation plus my favorite personal theme, sci-fi/horror. (I know, but I never got into Lost, seems like a skitzo Gilligans island to me.)
It has had some disposable episodes that laid ground work, much like I find early season one of Angel is doing for me. But episode one was strong, as it suprised me with Elizas role, and episode two was not expected but wanted for Echo's role...especially in contrast to episode 1!. And the ending was classic.
#3 and #4 were ok, with ground work and all, but on the weak side. I liked 5, as it was riveting to me and suprised me at the near end.
This episode repeats what 1 and 2 did for me, very good television that suprised me, and suprisingly with that said 9as suprises are generally big reveals) built on further mystery.
I aslo liked the more visable humor. Overall, it was buffyrific for me.
nuff said.
It has had some disposable episodes that laid ground work, much like I find early season one of Angel is doing for me. But episode one was strong, as it suprised me with Elizas role, and episode two was not expected but wanted for Echo's role...especially in contrast to episode 1!. And the ending was classic.
#3 and #4 were ok, with ground work and all, but on the weak side. I liked 5, as it was riveting to me and suprised me at the near end.
This episode repeats what 1 and 2 did for me, very good television that suprised me, and suprisingly with that said 9as suprises are generally big reveals) built on further mystery.
I aslo liked the more visable humor. Overall, it was buffyrific for me.
nuff said.
Edmund Blackadder
Scooby
This actually sounds like you're making excuses for him.
Firefly was completely different to both Buffy and Angel, yet his fans never felt he hadn't entered the building.
And so we know that the Dollhouse is bigger than you expected?
I see that as limiting himself even further.
I mean OK you go to the other Dollhouses, I would assume that will come into play more when Echo is has regained her senses, and then she begins liberating the others - doesn't that just turn into a group of fighters helping the helpless?
Hot chick with action - where have I heard that before?
If thats what they want, why would they be stepping on his toes because thats what he does?
^^^^Because it's all in approach. or better said, how approachable something is. The big wigs felt that their early influence may have been needed to make the show more approachable. i may agree, as I love the layer of episode 1 and 2 with this one. i would not have enjoyed this one so much without the early backstory, detail, and guesswork/ involvement
people look at Buffy and say, wow there is a hit with that kind of dynamic you mentioned, when in reality you are only as good as your advisary.
mythos have been building vampires for how long?
Dollhouse is about corporate greed, ethics, business, brainwashing, dispensable people, yada yada. It's a new evil without the old street cred.
It's still a quest about identity and perhaps about heroism, but thats nothing new. Only the amount of detail needed to relate it is, because t is an urban myth, not a village myth.
seems obvious enough to me, at least.
people look at Buffy and say, wow there is a hit with that kind of dynamic you mentioned, when in reality you are only as good as your advisary.
mythos have been building vampires for how long?
Dollhouse is about corporate greed, ethics, business, brainwashing, dispensable people, yada yada. It's a new evil without the old street cred.
It's still a quest about identity and perhaps about heroism, but thats nothing new. Only the amount of detail needed to relate it is, because t is an urban myth, not a village myth.
seems obvious enough to me, at least.
Edmund Blackadder
Scooby
Some of that was you just simply posting words online wasn't it?
Sounds to me that again that its excuses.
The problem I am seeing is that with the limited premise the only way to break out of that is to go down routes Joss has already explored.
Sounds to me that again that its excuses.
The problem I am seeing is that with the limited premise the only way to break out of that is to go down routes Joss has already explored.
And there is nothing wrong with a heroic storyline. Buffy is not Echo, actually, i find her closer to Angel in overall storyarc and potential. it's all been done before by someone afterall.
At least Joss has the audacity to 'ape' himself, at least as far as observant minds like you claim, when he 'copies' Ange....I mean Buffy, (see, i see it to, just because it is what it is, a good story) and makes the vampire/and or slayer into a girl with a mind wipe trying to figure out her identity controlled by big business and world politics.
Would you prefer his next work be SMG reading the phonebook?
Oh and I'm not into posting words just to see my own type, Ed. thats more your forte. (along with the "I'm always right" blinders you wear in your happy land over opinion pieces that can not have fact derived to them, but more power to you, as you'd seem to 'view it'. whatever, and ever, amen)
At least Joss has the audacity to 'ape' himself, at least as far as observant minds like you claim, when he 'copies' Ange....I mean Buffy, (see, i see it to, just because it is what it is, a good story) and makes the vampire/and or slayer into a girl with a mind wipe trying to figure out her identity controlled by big business and world politics.
Would you prefer his next work be SMG reading the phonebook?
Oh and I'm not into posting words just to see my own type, Ed. thats more your forte. (along with the "I'm always right" blinders you wear in your happy land over opinion pieces that can not have fact derived to them, but more power to you, as you'd seem to 'view it'. whatever, and ever, amen)
Edmund Blackadder
Scooby
There is everything wrong with it IF you are trying to tell people you're different.
Joss likes to play the 'big I am' and all he seems to have is a few stories he regurgitates.
Does that mean his shows are terrible (I dislike Dollhouse BUT its not a terrible show - Charmed is a terrible show!) no, but it does he isn't all he is cracked up to be.
Ohh and on the other point, Relic, I beg to differ and here is my evidence!
---------- Post added at 10:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:09 PM ----------
See, maybe re-read before posting then people can comment on what you actually say.
See I THINK I get what you're trying to say but you seriously could not be more wrong.
I know when I am right I post and make sure everyone knows, but when its opinion I still make sure everyone knows it, but I know its opinion.
The argument that I force my opinion through as 'fact' is actually getting old because thats just not the case.
Until the time someone says something that intelligently disproves my opinion, I keep it and continue saying it when called up, just obviously I do so in a way that people understand.
Joss likes to play the 'big I am' and all he seems to have is a few stories he regurgitates.
Does that mean his shows are terrible (I dislike Dollhouse BUT its not a terrible show - Charmed is a terrible show!) no, but it does he isn't all he is cracked up to be.
Ohh and on the other point, Relic, I beg to differ and here is my evidence!
---------- Post added at 10:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:09 PM ----------
See, maybe re-read before posting then people can comment on what you actually say.
See I THINK I get what you're trying to say but you seriously could not be more wrong.
I know when I am right I post and make sure everyone knows, but when its opinion I still make sure everyone knows it, but I know its opinion.
The argument that I force my opinion through as 'fact' is actually getting old because thats just not the case.
Until the time someone says something that intelligently disproves my opinion, I keep it and continue saying it when called up, just obviously I do so in a way that people understand.
What I'm saying without you trying to fit my words to what you want is this.....
Buffy is a heros story, a partial quest for identity and a young girl growing up.
Angels is a story about redemption, a man who escapes reality by way of unknown nightmare, finds the fallout to be horrifying and does his best to rectify crimes past.
Echo's is a blend of the two.
What i was trying to point out in your quote you think you know something "i got you" about is that they are all (potential)stories of heroism and that heroism is judged by both the advisary and degree of depth to overcome it. Some is more recognizable than others (vampires vs. Dollhouse) and may need some explaining and backstory.
Vampires vs. something called a Dollhouse and/or its mysterious serial killer like escapee. What needs more backstory? All heroic stories have heros and villians and consequence, are they all copies of themselves then, better question do I care. i'll anwer it for you. No, I don't. as long as the story is epic.
I thought my opinion was pretty easy, are you being daft on purpose to make yourself argumentative and somehow to yourself the brightest mind in the room. (LMAO!)
It's opinion piece Ed, we are all just saying words into the net that reflect both or opinions and observations, ones you try to bend to meet your definitions and problems with others opinion
I'm not going to atgue trival BS with you, your attacking other positions with your opinions saying "there just words" like that means something.
To be honesty, without considering the sanctamonous BS of it all on your part, I could give a flying bats ass.
Buffy is a heros story, a partial quest for identity and a young girl growing up.
Angels is a story about redemption, a man who escapes reality by way of unknown nightmare, finds the fallout to be horrifying and does his best to rectify crimes past.
Echo's is a blend of the two.
What i was trying to point out in your quote you think you know something "i got you" about is that they are all (potential)stories of heroism and that heroism is judged by both the advisary and degree of depth to overcome it. Some is more recognizable than others (vampires vs. Dollhouse) and may need some explaining and backstory.
Vampires vs. something called a Dollhouse and/or its mysterious serial killer like escapee. What needs more backstory? All heroic stories have heros and villians and consequence, are they all copies of themselves then, better question do I care. i'll anwer it for you. No, I don't. as long as the story is epic.
I thought my opinion was pretty easy, are you being daft on purpose to make yourself argumentative and somehow to yourself the brightest mind in the room. (LMAO!)
It's opinion piece Ed, we are all just saying words into the net that reflect both or opinions and observations, ones you try to bend to meet your definitions and problems with others opinion
I'm not going to atgue trival BS with you, your attacking other positions with your opinions saying "there just words" like that means something.
To be honesty, without considering the sanctamonous BS of it all on your part, I could give a flying bats ass.
Edmund Blackadder
Scooby
I was actually commenting less about your opinion and more about how your sentences make no sense.
It wasn't the content.
I don't need to pretend I am 'the brightest mind in the room' because I actually am one of those people that isn't afraid to admit I am intelligent.
There are a few of people who come to Buffy-Boards that I would say equal or maybe even better me on the intelligence front, but then there are so many that really don't.
I don't need to beat it around peoples head because it is evident in what I say.
The problem is, I have to use that intelligence to formulate a coherent argument and when I do that, often it is a rebuttal to another point.
You don't like it, thats fine, but don't get all pissy because the incoherent babble of some of your posts doesn't make sense to other people other than yourself.
It wasn't the content.
I don't need to pretend I am 'the brightest mind in the room' because I actually am one of those people that isn't afraid to admit I am intelligent.
There are a few of people who come to Buffy-Boards that I would say equal or maybe even better me on the intelligence front, but then there are so many that really don't.
I don't need to beat it around peoples head because it is evident in what I say.
The problem is, I have to use that intelligence to formulate a coherent argument and when I do that, often it is a rebuttal to another point.
You don't like it, thats fine, but don't get all pissy because the incoherent babble of some of your posts doesn't make sense to other people other than yourself.