Fake Shemp
VH Hero
last week i thought "yes the show has hit its stride and now its really good" this week..not so much
Episode Discussion 1.08 "Needs" - Aired 4/3/09 (FOX-USA)
- Thread starter Lou
- Start date
For me, this ep was great. I haven't been happy at all with the direction of the series, but noticed a change in quality starting with ep 4, then again at ep 6, slightly more in 7, and a lot more in 8. The first three eps were crazy bad, so much so that I was a little shocked that Joss was behind it all. They had their good moments, there is no doubt about that, but overall, the best boost in through and through quality came with "Needs", for me.
I found the story compelling on all fronts. I was pretty horrified at Sierra's story and am still not sure how I feel about it, but I'm thinking that Joss is maneuvering Victor in there to eventually put a stop to it (somehow). So that makes me hopeful that at some point, something will happen again with the dolls that will get them out of there, safe, and beyond the grasp of Dr. Saunders. Very sad about Mellie; she looked so young and happy walking through the school yard, so the idea of her having a young daughter that had died just hit harder.
Also wondering if they're setting up Saunders to be the big bad. I'm still kind of flip flopping over her role in this ep, because I can see a lot of ways where it was a terrible thing to do to them, and ways where it was a good thing for everyone. But clearly she isn't willing to mess around with the people who run the Dollhouse, and I'm wondering if the scars on her face which were left by Alpha were left because of negligence on the part of her superiors. Just wondering if she has a reason to blame them for what happened to her.
I also am starting to wonder if Topher is doing something in his doll programming to cause glitches, or little tears in reality if you will. At this point I don't know enough about the guy to give him a motive for doing that, though.
I found the story compelling on all fronts. I was pretty horrified at Sierra's story and am still not sure how I feel about it, but I'm thinking that Joss is maneuvering Victor in there to eventually put a stop to it (somehow). So that makes me hopeful that at some point, something will happen again with the dolls that will get them out of there, safe, and beyond the grasp of Dr. Saunders. Very sad about Mellie; she looked so young and happy walking through the school yard, so the idea of her having a young daughter that had died just hit harder.
Also wondering if they're setting up Saunders to be the big bad. I'm still kind of flip flopping over her role in this ep, because I can see a lot of ways where it was a terrible thing to do to them, and ways where it was a good thing for everyone. But clearly she isn't willing to mess around with the people who run the Dollhouse, and I'm wondering if the scars on her face which were left by Alpha were left because of negligence on the part of her superiors. Just wondering if she has a reason to blame them for what happened to her.
I also am starting to wonder if Topher is doing something in his doll programming to cause glitches, or little tears in reality if you will. At this point I don't know enough about the guy to give him a motive for doing that, though.
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Carpe Spuffy!
Great points. I like your realization about Agent Ballard. I was just talking to Tahmoh yesterday at the comicon (squeel!), and he was surprised when I told him Agent Ballard was my favorite character on the show and the one I was most interested in. He said he hadn't heard that much from people.
Really, it's about how he see's the Dollhouse and of course, his obsession with Caroline. And that phone call at the end? Interesting.
It's like giving us candy and then taking it away. It was so awesome to get a glimpse into the characters personalities and pasts - and then boom, all gone again. Bleh. I agree with your frustration with that.
---------- Post added at 11:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:05 AM ----------
Pecho. Oh yes. That dream sequence at the beginning was HOT. 😉
I was thinking that was intentional...that Sierra's real persona (Priyah?) is an Aussie. It's hard to imagine that was just sloppy acting. Dichen is better than that, seems like. I gotta rewatch.
fly on the wall
you have but-face.
I would like to think that, too...After all, as a Doll, and in some of her personas, the accent isn't there at all so obviously she can shut it off. But in "Stage Fright," when she played a fan from Australia, her accent sounded normal. In this episode, it really did come and go...it was as if at times she was trying (and failing!) to hide it.
I'm really interested in Claire's position in the show as well. I don't know if it's too late to introduce a Big Bad (other than Alpha, maybe) and still be able to wrap it up nice and tidy in case the show gets canceled. But I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
I noticed that, too, but since she's in the US, I believe I just assumed that she's (the character) picked up the local dialect.
My ex was from London, spoke the very posh received pronunciation, but had been stateside so long that many things came out sounding Okie (we were in Oklahoma at the time), and decidedly Midwest otherwise, while still having a lot of the original accent layered on top.
Summerlilly
Covert Superhero
I think Joss is doing that on purpose. There's something more we're not seeing or there's a reason he's picked a pretty average person like Caroline. I dont think she's boring for no reason.
NEEDS
The good;
Excellent scenes with the actives planning their escape in true The Prisoner style. Very gratifying to watch Victor beat the stuffing out of the guy abusing Sierra.
The bad;
Seems all very reckless of Adele, Victor throttles one handler and beats up Sierra's client. Echo beats the crap out of another handler before raiding the armoury and threatening everyone with a gun. Perhaps Topher put in blocks to prevent them killing anyone but given how the wipes haven't been working lately this still seems very risky.
Best line;
Dr Saunders; "Let the tide wash in"
Packing heat; Echo with a glock. The Dollhouse has it's own armoury in the handlers room with Glocks, M16 carbines and H&K MP5s.
Echo;5
Boyd; 6
Dominic; 6
Sierra; 3
Victor; 2
Echo kissage;
By request this new topic will be included.
Kinky dinky;
Mike suggests that they've been kidnapped to have sex with aliens, an idea that Mellie is understandably not too keen on (presumably she's seen Alien vs Predator; Requiem or Taboo Comics/Monsters and Angels-internet GOT-fic?). But she's quite ok with the thought of showering naked with both boys and girls unlike Sierra who's more hesitant.
Notches on the Dollhouse bedpost;
Echo; 3
November; 1
Ballard; 1
How'd they get away with that?
Dead Echo is plenty frightening! Check out Eliza as undead Bonnie and Clyde here Cutest picture ever (for fans of Buffy/Angel) - The Trek BBS
Victor is also pretty hardcore throttling the handler but that suits his soldier mentality. Echo beating up Sophie is also pretty savage.
This weeks fantasy; 1 each for everyone, their own personalities but without the memories. Echo is still the moral crusader we see in Echoes. Victor the level headed military man, November the maternal free spirit, Sierra kinda prickly and damaged.
Total number personalitites;
Echo; 15
Sierra; 6
Victor; 3
November; 2
Total dolls; 6, we meet 2 more, a blonde girl called Tango (who I think we've seen before as a background player?) and Mike who seems to be a conspiracy theorist and finds himself in the ultimate conspiracy. We also meet handler Sophie who like Topher's assistant Ivy will become a recurring minor character. We see another active in military garb (maybe filling in for Victor?) but we don't get a name.
Echo, Sierra, November, Victor, Mike, Tango
Addy is a bit British;
Topher is a bit geeky;
Astonishingly he's afraid of the dark
Subverting the Hollywood cliche;
Bondage;
Sierra tied up; 1
Knocked out; everyone passes out once they've achieved their closure
Echo; 2
November; 1
Sierra; 1
Victor; 1
Kills;
Sierra; 2 kills
Echo; 1
November;1
Dolls injured;
Capt subtext;
Ballard's dream suggests he has a sexual attraction towards Caroline at the expense of Mellie. Victor is appalled by the Village People-style leather chaps he appears to have in his wardrobe (Rid'em Cowboy?). Echo eyes Tango's legs in her stockings and suspenders. Tango closely resembles Liza Minelli's character in Cabaret. Is she off to a hetero client who wants to have sex with her or to a gay guy who wants to sing 'Money makes the world go round' with her as Buffy star Joel Gray (Doc from season 5) did in that movie. Boyd says he would have liked to have seen Echo leading everyone to freedom, he subconsciously wants to free everyone?
Happy hookers
Echo refers to the Dollhouse 'Pimping them out'
Know the face?
5 Whedon alumni-Mark Shepherd, Amy Acker, walking action figure, Eliza Dushku, Jim Piddock
Guantanamo;
Dominic suggests that the handlers think of the Actives as pets instead of children? Mike thinks they're goverment prisoners.
Fanfic;
Missing scenes;
Reminds me off;
The Buffy ep Tabula Rusa (a phrase used in this show), the characters all have their personalities and are trapped somewhere but don't have their conscious memories
Breaking the programming;
They all do so Adele allows them all to partially achieve their secret desires under controlled circumstances.
Questions and observations;
Victor very much the military man and does it very convincingly. November has a daughter called Kate who died, did she kill her? Even unprogrammed Caroline is pretty tasty in her fight with Sophie, maybe she retains some of her fighting skills from her imprints? Sierra's loathsome returning client (who appears to have forced her into the Dollhouse in the first place?) calls her Maria but is that her real name or the name of the personality he hires? Is he the guy who gave her the cut on her face in Echo? Victor's love for Sierra seems to be able to overcome even his mindwipe.
Presumably Mike didn't really have an awakening, he's the control entered by Topher to convince the others they have to make their escape quickly.
Marks out of 10; 8/10
The good;
Excellent scenes with the actives planning their escape in true The Prisoner style. Very gratifying to watch Victor beat the stuffing out of the guy abusing Sierra.
The bad;
Seems all very reckless of Adele, Victor throttles one handler and beats up Sierra's client. Echo beats the crap out of another handler before raiding the armoury and threatening everyone with a gun. Perhaps Topher put in blocks to prevent them killing anyone but given how the wipes haven't been working lately this still seems very risky.
Best line;
Dr Saunders; "Let the tide wash in"
Packing heat; Echo with a glock. The Dollhouse has it's own armoury in the handlers room with Glocks, M16 carbines and H&K MP5s.
Echo;5
Boyd; 6
Dominic; 6
Sierra; 3
Victor; 2
Echo kissage;
By request this new topic will be included.
Kinky dinky;
Mike suggests that they've been kidnapped to have sex with aliens, an idea that Mellie is understandably not too keen on (presumably she's seen Alien vs Predator; Requiem or Taboo Comics/Monsters and Angels-internet GOT-fic?). But she's quite ok with the thought of showering naked with both boys and girls unlike Sierra who's more hesitant.
Notches on the Dollhouse bedpost;
Echo; 3
November; 1
Ballard; 1
How'd they get away with that?
Dead Echo is plenty frightening! Check out Eliza as undead Bonnie and Clyde here Cutest picture ever (for fans of Buffy/Angel) - The Trek BBS
Victor is also pretty hardcore throttling the handler but that suits his soldier mentality. Echo beating up Sophie is also pretty savage.
This weeks fantasy; 1 each for everyone, their own personalities but without the memories. Echo is still the moral crusader we see in Echoes. Victor the level headed military man, November the maternal free spirit, Sierra kinda prickly and damaged.
Total number personalitites;
Echo; 15
Sierra; 6
Victor; 3
November; 2
Total dolls; 6, we meet 2 more, a blonde girl called Tango (who I think we've seen before as a background player?) and Mike who seems to be a conspiracy theorist and finds himself in the ultimate conspiracy. We also meet handler Sophie who like Topher's assistant Ivy will become a recurring minor character. We see another active in military garb (maybe filling in for Victor?) but we don't get a name.
Echo, Sierra, November, Victor, Mike, Tango
Addy is a bit British;
Topher is a bit geeky;
Astonishingly he's afraid of the dark
Subverting the Hollywood cliche;
Bondage;
Sierra tied up; 1
Knocked out; everyone passes out once they've achieved their closure
Echo; 2
November; 1
Sierra; 1
Victor; 1
Kills;
Sierra; 2 kills
Echo; 1
November;1
Dolls injured;
Capt subtext;
Ballard's dream suggests he has a sexual attraction towards Caroline at the expense of Mellie. Victor is appalled by the Village People-style leather chaps he appears to have in his wardrobe (Rid'em Cowboy?). Echo eyes Tango's legs in her stockings and suspenders. Tango closely resembles Liza Minelli's character in Cabaret. Is she off to a hetero client who wants to have sex with her or to a gay guy who wants to sing 'Money makes the world go round' with her as Buffy star Joel Gray (Doc from season 5) did in that movie. Boyd says he would have liked to have seen Echo leading everyone to freedom, he subconsciously wants to free everyone?
Happy hookers
Echo refers to the Dollhouse 'Pimping them out'
Know the face?
5 Whedon alumni-Mark Shepherd, Amy Acker, walking action figure, Eliza Dushku, Jim Piddock
Guantanamo;
Dominic suggests that the handlers think of the Actives as pets instead of children? Mike thinks they're goverment prisoners.
Fanfic;
Missing scenes;
Reminds me off;
The Buffy ep Tabula Rusa (a phrase used in this show), the characters all have their personalities and are trapped somewhere but don't have their conscious memories
Breaking the programming;
They all do so Adele allows them all to partially achieve their secret desires under controlled circumstances.
Questions and observations;
Victor very much the military man and does it very convincingly. November has a daughter called Kate who died, did she kill her? Even unprogrammed Caroline is pretty tasty in her fight with Sophie, maybe she retains some of her fighting skills from her imprints? Sierra's loathsome returning client (who appears to have forced her into the Dollhouse in the first place?) calls her Maria but is that her real name or the name of the personality he hires? Is he the guy who gave her the cut on her face in Echo? Victor's love for Sierra seems to be able to overcome even his mindwipe.
Presumably Mike didn't really have an awakening, he's the control entered by Topher to convince the others they have to make their escape quickly.
Marks out of 10; 8/10
Tasha
Dn'* letthespacebugsbite!
MinwaraYana
Countess Von Drunkaton
I was SO excited before this episode was aired. We all thought "Yay, they're gonna escape from the Dollhouse!". Then, bam, thanks for nothing. 😛 Not that I mind, though. It's a good episode. I almost feel sorry that
About Echo kissage? What's the number now? 3 or 4? I'm not sure if she has kissed Joel(Man on the Street) and Matt(Echoes).
So sad about Mellie. I didn't even know more about her daughter. Just seeing her cries made me cry with her. And poor Sierra. That Nolan guy is a creep. He deserves Victor's right hook and backhand. 😀
Just 8/10
Dr. Saunders suggested this idea. Because, you know, she's actually a Doll just like them.
About Echo kissage? What's the number now? 3 or 4? I'm not sure if she has kissed Joel(Man on the Street) and Matt(Echoes).
So sad about Mellie. I didn't even know more about her daughter. Just seeing her cries made me cry with her. And poor Sierra. That Nolan guy is a creep. He deserves Victor's right hook and backhand. 😀
Just 8/10