Episode Discussion 1.11 "Briar Rose" Aired 5/1/09 (FOX-USA)

Oops I forgot it's November and Sierra who are bounty hunters not Sierra and Echo sorry...

BTW on Hulu and another forum for Buffy(im not allowed to say right?)There are discussions that Claire is a doll and after reading them I have to agree.

Examples
1.Dominique calls for help saying Whisky then Topher and Adelle. Whisky is a NATO code as W apparently from what I read in the other forum.

2.Maybe she doesnt leave the DH cause she has no where to go cause she has her own pod.

3.Her scene with Alpha
Alpha: You've always wanted to be a doctor?

Saunders: Yes.

Alpha: That's a lie.
 
I cant say I am as excited about this ep as the rest of you seem to be. We knew Alan was Alpha from casting, as we knew/suspected about Victor and November. It wasnt a big twist reveal thing for me at all. All I was trying to figure out when I first saw Alan was what he was up to. And then flashing back to Death at a Funeral and waiting for him to yell out "mon". LOL. The whole Ballard thing doesnt make sense to me. Why are they spending so much money on an FBI agent without a badge? Why not just kill him instead of sending dolls to watch him or send him silly messages? Its getting a bit dumb and there is no reason that I can see for him to still be alive. I hope they hurry up and reveal whatever his 'secret' is. In saying that, I dont mind him being on the screen (sw)

There are so many big bads in the show Im finding it real hard to follow. Rossum, NSA, FBI, Alpha, the dollhouse itself? Are they all connected? Who wants the dollhouse brought down and who wants it to survive? I dont see how all of this can be wrapped up by the final episode. Maybe Im just not paying enough attention. There is so much going on but nothing really moving forward.

I think Echos imprint is just of someone that Alpha loved/she loved. I dont think it is Caroline. But really I dont care enough to think that much about it. I liked that she started to recognise Boyd, its sweet. I wana know what is going to happen next, but Im not sitting on the edge of my seat. Maybe I will like the series better when I get it on DVD and rewatch a few times. For the moment, if it was on TV here I would have switched channels.
 
C
charmingslayer
What do you mean "get way with my sig"?
It's an interesting idea but I really think it's overkill to make everyone secretly a doll. They've already gone that route twice this season. I already felt that the second one was too much.
Three times if you count Victor/Lubov, November/Mellie and Alpha.

I cant say I am as excited about this ep as the rest of you seem to be. We knew Alan was Alpha from casting, as we knew/suspected about Victor and November. It wasnt a big twist reveal thing for me at all.

I don't know if it's really Joss' fault you spoiled yourself 😉
 
November
November
It was on here (and msn/twitter etc) from very early on and pretty much wherever Alpha was mentioned. I didnt go looking for spoilers, I only really go into the episode discussions now with Dollhouse.
Loved, loved, loved, loooooooooooooved this episode!

I think its going to be one of my favourites, it was just nail biting from start to finish. Alpha is so twisted and evil that I think I love him for it, he's so creepy but at the same time you feel sorry for him. A great portrail of him either way, loved the ending where he imprinted Echo, it came across to me like its a past girlfriend of his before he became a doll. Poor Claire and Victor though, being completely caught off guard by him but like everyone else in a way Claire being Whiskey could be a possibility. Once again I want to hug Victor for him being slashed up and being so scared when Paul fell on his chamber.

Those to me were some of the best bits of the whole episode along with Paul finally getting in to the dollhouse. It makes me feel sorry for Mellie/November though as shes getting it rough from Paul and being dumped. Then litereally left in her chamber when he found her. Can't wait for next weeks episode to see how the end of this is all going to play out, it would be great for this show to get a second season.
 
Great episode.

- I did NOT see the twist coming. Maybe I should have, but it took me by such surprise! (I've stayed away from all spoilers, lists of castings, etc etc, so I'm sure that played a part.)

- POOR VICTOR! 🙁 🙁 🙁 I felt terrible for him. And poor Claire, too.

- And now we know why Alpha didn't kill Echo. Creeepy.

I'm itching for next week's ep, even though it's the finale and therefore will make me sad.
 
Ive seen all the spoilers and still was shocked. Im glad the episode made Alpha pretend to be the creator for so long, because even if yu did see the twist, it wasnt a total letdown.I still was surprised. The episode descriptionled me to beliee he was the actual creator and i was expecting a wacky "Wash" like performance, which we got , but then he switched to alpha and surprised me.
 
Just watched this ep and I loved it!!! Best ep so far. The last ten minutes were amazing!! Can't wait for more
 
Every line out of Tudyk's mouth was quotable gold. I couldn't breathe from laughing so hard.

"This is like a buddy cop movie, and you're the hard-boiled FBI agent, and I'm the guy who doesn't like buddy cop movies!"

Mwahaha!
 
I laughed when he said "we should get rope, rope is always good" 😀

but yeah, amazing episode, what a twist, fine acting.

Just awesome, i cant wait for tomorrow!
 
BRIAR ROSE

The good;
Totally had me fooled with Alpha (partly because his agorophobic uber-geek and Ballard makes such a great team). Stunning performance on both counts. You really feel for Mellie when Ballard dumps her. Great performance from the actress who plays the little girl too. Dominic asking for 'Whiskey' is a masterful bit of foreshadowing and Ballard is one smart cookie with his plan (but not as much as you-know-who).

The bad;
Alpha's plan seems unecessarily complicated? Ballard says he doesn't have a badge any more but then he shows one to 'Kepler' (did he swipe Loomis'?)

Best line;
Adele; "There's indignation enough for everyone to have seconds"
reprogrammed Echo upon seeing Alpha
"My prince"

Packing heat; Both Boyd and Ballard with their pistols again. Ballard also uses a stungun on Topher.
Echo;6
Boyd; 7
Dominic; 7
Sierra; 3
Victor; 2
Ballard; 8

Echo kissage;2
She plants a big old smackaroo on Alpha, so much so it cuts her lip

Kinky dinky;

Notches on the Dollhouse bedpost;
Echo; 3 definite, 1 possible
November; 1
Ballard; 1
Victor; 1
Adele; 1
Sierra 1 possible
Topher; 1 possible

How'd they get away with that?
Watching Alpha slicing up Victor is HORRIBLE! The little girl's plight is also horrific but at least she has a chance to recover. Also hard to watch Ballard cruelly dumping Mellie and her near suicide. Plus Alpha's recycled urine.

This weeks fantasy;
Topher has made Echo into a grown up, healthy version of the damaged little girl in order to counsel her, Alpha turns her into a white trash princess. Sierra is a CSI girl (her technobabble may be a subtle joke on them). Victor is Dominic

Total number personalitites;
Echo; 19
Sierra; 9
Victor; 6
November; 2

Total dolls; add Alpha so 7
Echo, Sierra, November, Victor, Mike, Tango, Alpha

Addy is a bit British;

Topher is a bit geeky;
He actually uses the phrase 'All frakked up'.

Subverting the Hollywood cliche;
Amanda lets Echo sit near her, not because she trusts her but because she has flicknife concealed on her.

Bondage; Boyd puts Ballard in handcuffs (presumably his own?)
Sierra tied up; 1
Ballard; 1

Knocked out; Toper get's tasered into unconsciousness by Ballard
Echo; 2
November; 1
Sierra; 1
Victor; 1
Topher; 1

Kills;
Sierra; 2 kills
Echo; 1
November;1

Dolls injured;.
Poor Victor, traumatised by Ballard and Boyd crashing down on top of him and then cut to ribbons by Alpha.

Capt subtext;
Check out the very caring, maternal way Dr Saunders helps Victor who really comes across as a frightened child. The Briar Rose story has a feminist slant on it similar to Buffy, Amanda and Echo prefer the ending where the Briar Rose saves herself. Echo says that Amanda is "Close to moving forwards but it'll hurt" just as she is. Interestingly when Ballard asks Alpha is he Kepler he replies "Well there are a lot of aspects to that question" . He also refers to the Dollhouse as 'The New Eden' which it just might be. He asks Dr Saunders if she always wanted to be a Dr and when she says yes tells her that's a lie.

Happy hookers
The little girl seems to have been exploited as a child prostitute by her mother's boyfriend. All the Dolls in the Dollhouse are above the age of consent but only those we've seen (and only in LA).

Know the face? Alan Tudyk was Wash on Firefly/Serenity
7 Whedon alumni-Mark Shepherd, Amy Acker, walking action figure, Eliza Dushku, Jim Piddock, Gregg Henry, Alan Tudyk

Guantanamo;
Drugging and torturing Dominic who's on a day trip out of the attic, very hard to watch (great performance from Enver, really nails Reed Diamond in his mannerisms). Sending Echo to help the little girl is everybodys way of living with themselves.

Fanfic;
The adventures of doomed lovers Echo and Alpha disturbingly popular. The little girl's story reminded me of a Buffy fanfic where we learn why Faith is as screwed up as she is and Buffy, Joyce and Dawn help her get over it and adopt her as a new Summers girl Thanks for taking care of my body, Faith!, a Buffy: The Vampire Slayer fanfic - FanFiction.Net

Missing scenes;.

Reminds me off;

Breaking the programming;

Questions and observations;
So, the headquarters for the whole Dollhouse project is in Tuscon? Can anyone tell me exactly WHY Alpha is hiding naked in a dumpster when he kills the homeless man? Or am I trying to find logic in the actions of a madman? Note when Ballard finally gets into the Dollhouse he says 'It really exists', he'd obviously begun to doubt his own sanity. 'We call that editing' may be a subtle joke on the crew. Alpha thinks the Dollhouse is a good place but with bad people. I hate stairs without risers too, always fear I'm going to fall through them. Note Boyd gives Ballard a way out, he's not going to turn him in if he can help it. Surely consensual slavery is a contradiction in terms, if it's consensual it's not slavery? The Dollhouse we see was only built ten years ago despite the rumours dating from the 80s.

Marks out of 10; 9/10 really good
 
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