Episode Discussion 2.01 "Vows" - Aired 9/25/09 (FOX-US)
- Thread starter Buffy Summers
- Start date
The Chosen
Time is all around
Holy crap. Words do not even begin to describe...
First off, this whole Paul/Echo working together thing, I can't wait to see how that plays out. Veeeery interesting situation light-side-of-the-Force Paul Ballard has gotten himself into. Also, Echo is already a far more interesting character. And The Whiskey thing...I can't really talk about that right now, 'cause I'm still trying to process the episode, but, the scene with she and Topher in the bedroom? Intense.
Best quote EVER (so not verbatim): "If you were to, I don't know, tie me down and spank me, I couldn't stop you..." Pretty much thinking that Asian-disliking Sierra is hilarious.
More thoughts may or may not follow...
First off, this whole Paul/Echo working together thing, I can't wait to see how that plays out. Veeeery interesting situation light-side-of-the-Force Paul Ballard has gotten himself into. Also, Echo is already a far more interesting character. And The Whiskey thing...I can't really talk about that right now, 'cause I'm still trying to process the episode, but, the scene with she and Topher in the bedroom? Intense.
Best quote EVER (so not verbatim): "If you were to, I don't know, tie me down and spank me, I couldn't stop you..." Pretty much thinking that Asian-disliking Sierra is hilarious.
More thoughts may or may not follow...
laianna
Potential
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2009
- Messages
- 203
Dammnn...
Great season premiere, I thought. Amy Acker, as always, completely shined in this episode. Her conflict with being Whiskey/Dr. Saunders and not wanting this part of her to "die" is a very relatable conflict. I'd never really thought of that angle before, but it's so awful to consider being in her position.
I was never a fan of Topher, but I have to admit, he's growing on me. I must say, him and Dr. Saunders don't look bad together... =P
That moment in the beginning with the rats was so funny. Made me think back of Gunn from Angel. <3
Echo remembering is also very intriguing. We didn't see much of Sierra and Victor, but I'm not sure about that hand-holding at the end; are they, too, beginning to remember? It's certainly suspicious.
The Ballard/Echo thing at the end was a little shocking. Was the Alpha incident what triggered this sudden self-awareness?
Something that's been kind of irritating to me is how all Echo wants is to find Caroline, her "real" self. I mean, I know it's technically her or whatever, but still. I feel like it would be a better journey if she had to find herself through the memories/engagements that she makes over the course of the show.
Not sure I like Adelle's new haircut. What do you guys think?
Great season premiere, I thought. Amy Acker, as always, completely shined in this episode. Her conflict with being Whiskey/Dr. Saunders and not wanting this part of her to "die" is a very relatable conflict. I'd never really thought of that angle before, but it's so awful to consider being in her position.
I was never a fan of Topher, but I have to admit, he's growing on me. I must say, him and Dr. Saunders don't look bad together... =P
That moment in the beginning with the rats was so funny. Made me think back of Gunn from Angel. <3
Echo remembering is also very intriguing. We didn't see much of Sierra and Victor, but I'm not sure about that hand-holding at the end; are they, too, beginning to remember? It's certainly suspicious.
The Ballard/Echo thing at the end was a little shocking. Was the Alpha incident what triggered this sudden self-awareness?
Something that's been kind of irritating to me is how all Echo wants is to find Caroline, her "real" self. I mean, I know it's technically her or whatever, but still. I feel like it would be a better journey if she had to find herself through the memories/engagements that she makes over the course of the show.
Not sure I like Adelle's new haircut. What do you guys think?
The Chosen
hated the haircut. maybe it'll grow on me. (see what I did there? pun!)
Joan the Vampire Slayer
[No message]
Angelic Slayer
Daydream Believer
Well, I can't say that it's my favourite episode of the series to date, but it certainly was a good start to the season. We didn't see a whole lot of every character, but I like that we get to see everyone at least once and it's nice to start to see some different, more human sides to the characters.
Adelle: Love her new haircut and it's nice to see her interacting a little more with the dolls (checking up on Victor's scars, being there when Echo gets a treatment). I'm hoping we get to see a little more of this for the rest of the season, for sure.
Boyd: I like the "nice suit" line in his scene with Adelle, and it's interesting to see him communicating on a more personal level with Saunders. Telling her that he wouldn't let Adelle wipe her away was particularly touching; one of the things I've always liked about him is that no matter what position he holds or what situation he's in, gaurding over those he cares about seems to be #1 priority. I would have liked for him to have some more on-screen time with Echo, but I suppose they'll be moving away from that as the story progresses (to allow more scenes between Paul and Echo). And as a sidenote, I thought he and Paul got along last season? Why all the suspicion with each other now? I was looking forward to seeing them all ex-cop-buddies. Apparently I was very much mistaken!
Topher: It's great to hear a little bit more about him and his thinking behind "programming" Saunders. When he said "you don't know me", I couldn't help but wonder if we as an audience really have him figured out, either. He seems to slowly be coming apart at the seams which, although not an ideal state of mind for anyone, is showing us a more vulnerable side to him which I can appreciate. Out of all the characters I think that I had the most misconceptions about him, and maybe he's not so cocky/uncaring towards the actives as I may have thought last season. And he's afraid of rodents: can I just say ADORAMABLE 🙂
Saunders: So she's going a little off the deep end; definitely not acting like the wholesome, kind Saunders from last season. It was GREAT to see her getting more screen time though, and her breakdown in Topher's room was heart-breaking. Acker I think did a brilliant job with her this episode, I hope we'll see more of her as the season progresses. I wasn't sure about the ending, if that was her leaving the dollhouse permanently or....? Maybe someone can enlighten me :silly:
Paul Ballard: Wow big day for him, becoming a handler and all! At first when Adelle offered it to him I wasn't sure how I felt about it (I still wish Boyd could fill those shoes again!), but after seeing him make the promise to Echo it makes sense for him to take on the role-- and at least we'll see her interacting with a handler again (I mean really, did we even see that other guy since he became her handler? At all??).
The airport scene was surprising, I remember reading somewhere that Paul hit Echo and being really shocked-- but I can really understand why. It was smart of him to tap into her other personalities, although I'm a little surprised that she didn't go into a meltdown when she started remembering everyone. Hopefully we'll learn more about the extent of her self-control with these personalities later on in the season.
In a way I really liked the scene at the beginning too, where Paul is waiting for Echo to return from her wedding night. He's anxious, jealous; not traits we saw a lot of in him last season. Again, as was the case with Saunders and Topher we got a glimpse of a very "human", perhaps flawed or vulnerable side of him. This is why I love Joss' writing so much, he shows you that there's always more to a person than meets the eye.
Echo: Again, I'm really interested to find out how much control she has over these personalities, and if she'll be able to keep them hidden for long. It's nice to see her developing as her own character though, rather than just as whatever personality she happened to be imprinted with that day. I think that's something that was very much lacking in her character last season-- a personality of her own. We saw the stirrings of one, but now even in her Doll state she's becoming her own person which should make the show much more enjoyable, I think.
And I was suprised in Eliza's performance this episode-- for me anyway she's definitely improved since last season. Switching in the airport scene from one personality to another couldn't have been an easy task, but I think she pulled it off.
Ivy, Victor/Sierra, Alexis Denisof: None of these folks played huge roles this episode I know, but I thought I best not leave them out. It was nice to see Ivy in the lab a little bit more (her scene with Sierra was PRICELESS 😀), and the Victor/Sierra scene at the end was very cute. Didn't see a whole lot of Alexis' character either, but it was nice that they introduced him. And I found it to be really wierd hearing him speak without the accent, wow!
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edit:
I thought it was interesting too that we saw an active who wants more than anything to find her "real" self (Echo), and then we see another active who had the chance to do just that and has turned it down (Whiskey/Saunders). It makes me wonder that if this Echo personality does develop in the end, will she really want to give all that up for a chance to become Caroline again?
Adelle: Love her new haircut and it's nice to see her interacting a little more with the dolls (checking up on Victor's scars, being there when Echo gets a treatment). I'm hoping we get to see a little more of this for the rest of the season, for sure.
Boyd: I like the "nice suit" line in his scene with Adelle, and it's interesting to see him communicating on a more personal level with Saunders. Telling her that he wouldn't let Adelle wipe her away was particularly touching; one of the things I've always liked about him is that no matter what position he holds or what situation he's in, gaurding over those he cares about seems to be #1 priority. I would have liked for him to have some more on-screen time with Echo, but I suppose they'll be moving away from that as the story progresses (to allow more scenes between Paul and Echo). And as a sidenote, I thought he and Paul got along last season? Why all the suspicion with each other now? I was looking forward to seeing them all ex-cop-buddies. Apparently I was very much mistaken!
Topher: It's great to hear a little bit more about him and his thinking behind "programming" Saunders. When he said "you don't know me", I couldn't help but wonder if we as an audience really have him figured out, either. He seems to slowly be coming apart at the seams which, although not an ideal state of mind for anyone, is showing us a more vulnerable side to him which I can appreciate. Out of all the characters I think that I had the most misconceptions about him, and maybe he's not so cocky/uncaring towards the actives as I may have thought last season. And he's afraid of rodents: can I just say ADORAMABLE 🙂
Saunders: So she's going a little off the deep end; definitely not acting like the wholesome, kind Saunders from last season. It was GREAT to see her getting more screen time though, and her breakdown in Topher's room was heart-breaking. Acker I think did a brilliant job with her this episode, I hope we'll see more of her as the season progresses. I wasn't sure about the ending, if that was her leaving the dollhouse permanently or....? Maybe someone can enlighten me :silly:
Paul Ballard: Wow big day for him, becoming a handler and all! At first when Adelle offered it to him I wasn't sure how I felt about it (I still wish Boyd could fill those shoes again!), but after seeing him make the promise to Echo it makes sense for him to take on the role-- and at least we'll see her interacting with a handler again (I mean really, did we even see that other guy since he became her handler? At all??).
The airport scene was surprising, I remember reading somewhere that Paul hit Echo and being really shocked-- but I can really understand why. It was smart of him to tap into her other personalities, although I'm a little surprised that she didn't go into a meltdown when she started remembering everyone. Hopefully we'll learn more about the extent of her self-control with these personalities later on in the season.
In a way I really liked the scene at the beginning too, where Paul is waiting for Echo to return from her wedding night. He's anxious, jealous; not traits we saw a lot of in him last season. Again, as was the case with Saunders and Topher we got a glimpse of a very "human", perhaps flawed or vulnerable side of him. This is why I love Joss' writing so much, he shows you that there's always more to a person than meets the eye.
Echo: Again, I'm really interested to find out how much control she has over these personalities, and if she'll be able to keep them hidden for long. It's nice to see her developing as her own character though, rather than just as whatever personality she happened to be imprinted with that day. I think that's something that was very much lacking in her character last season-- a personality of her own. We saw the stirrings of one, but now even in her Doll state she's becoming her own person which should make the show much more enjoyable, I think.
And I was suprised in Eliza's performance this episode-- for me anyway she's definitely improved since last season. Switching in the airport scene from one personality to another couldn't have been an easy task, but I think she pulled it off.
Ivy, Victor/Sierra, Alexis Denisof: None of these folks played huge roles this episode I know, but I thought I best not leave them out. It was nice to see Ivy in the lab a little bit more (her scene with Sierra was PRICELESS 😀), and the Victor/Sierra scene at the end was very cute. Didn't see a whole lot of Alexis' character either, but it was nice that they introduced him. And I found it to be really wierd hearing him speak without the accent, wow!
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edit:
Very well said, I totally agree. And on your Echo point: I can see where you're coming from, but I think that's ultimately how she is going to find herself in the end. Maybe I'm wrong (obviously I have no idea where the series is going!), but I think that unless something major happens, for at least another 3 years Adelle won't be imprinting her with her original personality. So maybe Echo will become a person on her own after all, like you said through taking bits and pieces of her engagements over the course of the show.laianna said:
I thought it was interesting too that we saw an active who wants more than anything to find her "real" self (Echo), and then we see another active who had the chance to do just that and has turned it down (Whiskey/Saunders). It makes me wonder that if this Echo personality does develop in the end, will she really want to give all that up for a chance to become Caroline again?
B
Buffyverse Fan
HIMYM not just for American Alexis, but Alyson (Willow) & Neil (Dr. Horrible) are two of the stars after all!
Buffyverse Fan
* The 28th *
I'm pretty sure the implication was that Echo started off "special," and has been gradually regaining self-awareness from day one, but the Alpha Incident and now the concussion have expedited her understanding.
She's her soul (Echo), experiences (imprints), and her memories (Caroline). She has two of the three now, but she need to get Caroline back to be whole.
---------- Post added at 10:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:51 PM ----------
I got used to it on HIMYM. I'm so happy he's back in the Whedonverse!
Angelic Slayer
I'll have to find some HIMYM on youtube and see him all Americanized! ;)... And good point about the three parts of Echo, cool way of looking at it :)
faeriegrrl27
Resident Jew
I was soo happy to see Alexis Denisof! Even though I knew he would be appearing, I still got *way* excited!
Never really did like Ballard. He still annoys me and I can't say I'm terribly surprised at him becoming Echo's Handler (I keep wanting to type Watcher... lol). The one time I ever liked him is when he chose November/Millie/whatever to go free instead of Echo/Caroline. I figured he'd done that because he'd actually known her and loved her and Echo was just a creepy obsession of his, but Adele's theory is more consistent with his character and annoys me quite a bit. But I do give him kudos for the airport scene and the "drawing out" of a useful imprint. Quite clever.
LOVE what's going on with Topher and Whisky/Dr. Saunders. It's soo intense! That scene in the bedroom was really amazingly beautiful.
Wish we'd seen more of Adelle, although she did get to engage in some pretty impressive witty repartee. Her dress seemed plainer than her other outfits, which is disappointing, and I liked her hair better long. It's not bad as short, though.
And Boyde looked pretty freakin' sharp in his suit at the end of the episode.
Never really did like Ballard. He still annoys me and I can't say I'm terribly surprised at him becoming Echo's Handler (I keep wanting to type Watcher... lol). The one time I ever liked him is when he chose November/Millie/whatever to go free instead of Echo/Caroline. I figured he'd done that because he'd actually known her and loved her and Echo was just a creepy obsession of his, but Adele's theory is more consistent with his character and annoys me quite a bit. But I do give him kudos for the airport scene and the "drawing out" of a useful imprint. Quite clever.
LOVE what's going on with Topher and Whisky/Dr. Saunders. It's soo intense! That scene in the bedroom was really amazingly beautiful.
Wish we'd seen more of Adelle, although she did get to engage in some pretty impressive witty repartee. Her dress seemed plainer than her other outfits, which is disappointing, and I liked her hair better long. It's not bad as short, though.
And Boyde looked pretty freakin' sharp in his suit at the end of the episode.
Skanky Vamp
Sniffin' the Slayer
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2008
- Messages
- 26,460
I was going to mention that dichotomy, as I think that will be the basis of the entire show. One thinks the past makes the self, while the other thinks current situation makes the shelf. I really was impressed with the episode and was not very fond of last season at all.
I think Joss had a subtle jab at the networks as well.. did anyone catch the phrase "honeymoon's over" and see it as breaking the 4th wall, meaning LAST season is over..
Washburne
Protector of the key.
It's great to have the show back and the first episode was good enough even if it wasn't mindblowing. But I can't help to wonder what possibly new viewers would think. Because lets face it the show needs more viewers. Was this an episode that will draw in lots of new viewers if this is the first they watched? Call me sceptical but I'd love to be wrong.
To answer the hair question I think I need a little time to get used to it. What I likes best in this episode was Saunders and Topher.
To answer the hair question I think I need a little time to get used to it. What I likes best in this episode was Saunders and Topher.
I thought the episode alone was better than the majority of season 1. It delved deep into certain characters such as Topher and fleshed them out, no longer was Topher the annoying geek prodigy guy but you see deeper emotions within him. But I have to say the best in the episode was Amy Ackers, I mean wow, she played her role perfectly, it makes me want to have more episodes with her in it than just the 5 I've heard about
Bluebird
two by two, hands of blue
- Joined
- May 17, 2008
- Messages
- 6,416
I really loved this episode. It just gave us so much more of everything, a great season opener I thought. Season 2 is looking to be quite different from 1, and I like that - more of an arc. And there's some real narrative here, now with Echo remembering. Amy Acker just blew me away in all her scenes, she really is a fantastic actress.
The whole episode just left me wanting more. I can't wait to see the next one! 😀
The whole episode just left me wanting more. I can't wait to see the next one! 😀
Crazy Flakes
Velma
I'm not really sure how I felt about the episode. The plot with Whiskey was absolutely, positively, mind-blowingly brilliant. The scene in the bedroom with Topher nearly had me in tears, as did the ending scene with her driving away from the Dollhouse. It's SUCH a shame that we won't get to see her that much this season, because the plot revolving around Whiskey has easily become the best, most compelling part of the show. Still, even though I love Whiskey the most, Topher, Adelle ("Ah, Tempura Joe...such a lonely soul), Boyd, Victor, and Sierra were all great, too. Plus, ALEXIS DENISOF! 😀
However, on the flip side, I thought Echo and Paul's plot was just so incredibly dull. In fact, I was so bored by their scenes that I had to literally force myself not to fast-forward through them to get to the rest of the characters. And I'm disappointed by Jamie Bamber...he looked hot as hell, yeah (although I highly prefer the darker, shorter hair, ridiculously huge muscles, and American accent he had on BSG to his mild-mannered Brit look), but his character was so damn boring. I can't even begin to express how upset I am that the rest of the season is gonna center around them, since everyone else is just SO much more interesting and fun to watch than they are. Argh, whyyyy couldn't Joss have just made it "The Whiskey Show"?! 🙁 Still, as much as I hate Echo as a character, I must admit, Eliza's acting has definitely improved since last season. She's still no Amy Acker, that's for sure, but at least I was actually able to watch her scenes without cringing. Also, the scene at the end in the airport with the kicking ass and exploding cars was cool.
So, shortened version; Echo's plot sucked (as usual), Whiskey's plot was incredible. So I guess if I average it out and take the fact that Echo had more screen time than anyone else (or maybe she actually didn't and her scenes just dragged on a lot so it seemed that way) into account, the episode was just okay.
However, on the flip side, I thought Echo and Paul's plot was just so incredibly dull. In fact, I was so bored by their scenes that I had to literally force myself not to fast-forward through them to get to the rest of the characters. And I'm disappointed by Jamie Bamber...he looked hot as hell, yeah (although I highly prefer the darker, shorter hair, ridiculously huge muscles, and American accent he had on BSG to his mild-mannered Brit look), but his character was so damn boring. I can't even begin to express how upset I am that the rest of the season is gonna center around them, since everyone else is just SO much more interesting and fun to watch than they are. Argh, whyyyy couldn't Joss have just made it "The Whiskey Show"?! 🙁 Still, as much as I hate Echo as a character, I must admit, Eliza's acting has definitely improved since last season. She's still no Amy Acker, that's for sure, but at least I was actually able to watch her scenes without cringing. Also, the scene at the end in the airport with the kicking ass and exploding cars was cool.
So, shortened version; Echo's plot sucked (as usual), Whiskey's plot was incredible. So I guess if I average it out and take the fact that Echo had more screen time than anyone else (or maybe she actually didn't and her scenes just dragged on a lot so it seemed that way) into account, the episode was just okay.
F
faeriegrrl27
[No message]
Crashing Doors
Potential
I missed most of it because of freaking work, again this year. I tried to get off Friday nights but it wouldn't happen. So, here's to Hulu. Or perhaps it's time to get a DVR.
Although I was able to catch a bit of Alexis's speech. I decided to turn it off though since by that point I'd already missed most of the show.
Although I was able to catch a bit of Alexis's speech. I decided to turn it off though since by that point I'd already missed most of the show.
MinwaraYana
Countess Von Drunkaton
First of all, I love the new opening credits. But as much as I love Eliza, I prefer seeing everyone in it better than only Echo.
I really liked the Whiskey's plot. Every scenes of hers is heartbreaking. I didn't pay attention at Echo much except when she started kicking ass and that scene with Whiskey. 😀
Little babbling :
- Victor and Sierra holding hands is so cute.
- "I'm running out...of excuses" <--- Brilliant!
- I think Adelle looks good with both hairstyles. I kinda like the hew hairstyle more. 🙂
- Topher does care, awwww.
- Paul with darker hair is much hotter.
- Alexis Denisof without English accent is unbelievable awesome. 😉
I really liked the Whiskey's plot. Every scenes of hers is heartbreaking. I didn't pay attention at Echo much except when she started kicking ass and that scene with Whiskey. 😀
Little babbling :
- Victor and Sierra holding hands is so cute.
- "I'm running out...of excuses" <--- Brilliant!
- I think Adelle looks good with both hairstyles. I kinda like the hew hairstyle more. 🙂
- Topher does care, awwww.
- Paul with darker hair is much hotter.
- Alexis Denisof without English accent is unbelievable awesome. 😉
W
WhiteHat
Guest
It was enjoyable, but I could not escape the palpable feeling that I was missing something.
I was not able to watch the missing episode.
Was seeing "Epitaph One" so essential to fathoming S2's premiere?
It seemed as if they were trying to cram far too much relationship-oriented material into the ep at the expense of some action, 'though the very end had some cool combat moves. 😀
I was not able to watch the missing episode.
Was seeing "Epitaph One" so essential to fathoming S2's premiere?
It seemed as if they were trying to cram far too much relationship-oriented material into the ep at the expense of some action, 'though the very end had some cool combat moves. 😀
laianna
Potential
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2009
- Messages
- 203
Epitaph One took place in... I think it was 10 years into the future? I don't think it was essential to get this episode because in E1 you see how it's all going to end... this one is starting down the road to getting to that place but isn't there quite yet. In this episode we saw the beginnings of some of those plot threads though.
While you probably don't need to see it, Epitaph One is a brilliant episode in my mind, and I think anyone who saw that would regain their hope in a show. Amy Acker as Whiskey/Dr. S in both E1 and yesterday's "Vows" is pretty awesome.
Buffyverse Fan said:
Ah, that makes more sense to me. I hadn't thought of it like that. I keep imagining it like Echo will be erased and Caroline will just be back but that really isn't so, is it? If Caroline does make another appearance, it should be over Echo right? So both Echo & Caroline are the same person again? Sorry if that was confusing.
I felt like Paul's sting of this weapons dealer guy was just too compressed and sketchy to get involved in as a viewer. This operation would realistically take months to set up, execute, and we came in at the tail end. I thought Bamber did really well with what he had to work with. And the way Paul got Echo to kick in with her killer ninja skills at the end was cool.
Whiskey/Topher, brilliant stuff. Sierra and Ivy's scene, hilarious.
Whiskey/Topher, brilliant stuff. Sierra and Ivy's scene, hilarious.
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Carpe Spuffy!
Great episode overall I thought. The conversation between Whiskey and Topher at the beginning was very illuminating. It's so sad to see how disturbed she is since finding out she had been a Doll and Topher programmed her to be a doctor.
Whiskey/Topher? Officially my new favorite ship. They are HOT together! Delicious sexual tension between these two. I would have never thought of these two together, but as usual, Whedon has pleasantly surprised me. And what is the preoccupation with always putting Topher in his underwear??!! lol
And yes, the rats scene totally reminded me of Fred and Gunn 🙂
I'm intrigued by Topher's recent change in attitude. His cocky attitude from last season is crumbling and he is becoming much more of a relateble, human character I can sympathize with. He seems to be losing it, really. I think he's starting to question whether or not working for the Dollhouse is morally "right" anymore.
Last season, Topher seemed so full of himself - a little cocky even - and completely comfortable with how he was treating the Actives and with his place in the Dollhouse. Now, he seems uncomfortable with how he treated Whiskey and with how she was programmed. Everything seems to be falling apart, and he feels quite powerless I think. Interesting stuff. Can't wait to see what happens next. Do you guys think Topher has feeilngs for Whiskey? It seems so - why else would he have programmed her to hate him and the smell of him? Because he knew it was enviable she'd fall for him? Very interesting dynamic they're developing between these two.
And what was up with that flashback with Echo and Whiskey?! Woah.
Interesting twist with Paul becoming Echo's Handler, although can't say I didn't see it coming. Wasn't that Paul's and Caroline's plan from the beginning? To break Echo out "from the inside"? I'm not sure what Paul's handle is, though. What is he trying to do? I don't think he knows what he's messing with.
Woot! Alexis is back in Whedonville! - and as a senator - very interesting! Can't wait to see his part in all of this. Maybe as a customer? Or as a adversary to the operation? And was it implied Paul or Adelle...knew him maybe? Wasn't sure on that.
As unbelievable as it sounds, the plots seems to have become more convoluted since last season. I love all the layers Whedon is already starting to uncover in each character.
I still think this show has great potential. I'm very excited for next week!
I'm noticing an interesting theme popping up in this show: how do we create our identities, or who decides them for us? Where do our "own" selves end and the other, "created" self begin? Whedon's playing with some really relevant and relatable stuff here, and questions of identity and where one fits in the world (especially with the future and relating to technology) have always been popular themes in Science fiction.
Whiskey/Topher? Officially my new favorite ship. They are HOT together! Delicious sexual tension between these two. I would have never thought of these two together, but as usual, Whedon has pleasantly surprised me. And what is the preoccupation with always putting Topher in his underwear??!! lol
And yes, the rats scene totally reminded me of Fred and Gunn 🙂
I'm intrigued by Topher's recent change in attitude. His cocky attitude from last season is crumbling and he is becoming much more of a relateble, human character I can sympathize with. He seems to be losing it, really. I think he's starting to question whether or not working for the Dollhouse is morally "right" anymore.
Last season, Topher seemed so full of himself - a little cocky even - and completely comfortable with how he was treating the Actives and with his place in the Dollhouse. Now, he seems uncomfortable with how he treated Whiskey and with how she was programmed. Everything seems to be falling apart, and he feels quite powerless I think. Interesting stuff. Can't wait to see what happens next. Do you guys think Topher has feeilngs for Whiskey? It seems so - why else would he have programmed her to hate him and the smell of him? Because he knew it was enviable she'd fall for him? Very interesting dynamic they're developing between these two.
And what was up with that flashback with Echo and Whiskey?! Woah.
Interesting twist with Paul becoming Echo's Handler, although can't say I didn't see it coming. Wasn't that Paul's and Caroline's plan from the beginning? To break Echo out "from the inside"? I'm not sure what Paul's handle is, though. What is he trying to do? I don't think he knows what he's messing with.
Woot! Alexis is back in Whedonville! - and as a senator - very interesting! Can't wait to see his part in all of this. Maybe as a customer? Or as a adversary to the operation? And was it implied Paul or Adelle...knew him maybe? Wasn't sure on that.
As unbelievable as it sounds, the plots seems to have become more convoluted since last season. I love all the layers Whedon is already starting to uncover in each character.
I still think this show has great potential. I'm very excited for next week!
I'm noticing an interesting theme popping up in this show: how do we create our identities, or who decides them for us? Where do our "own" selves end and the other, "created" self begin? Whedon's playing with some really relevant and relatable stuff here, and questions of identity and where one fits in the world (especially with the future and relating to technology) have always been popular themes in Science fiction.
laianna
Agreeing on Whiskey/Topher ship. Very sexy. =P
Skanky Vamp
Sniffin' the Slayer
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2008
- Messages
- 26,460
Before the first episode aired that is what Joss said the show would be about, which is why the lil sociologist in me got excited. And the major reason why I was utterly disappointed with the first season. The second looks very good. First episode of second season was deeper (thanks to the Saunders character) than anything in the first season.
spikeluvr185
Lawyer at Wolfram & Hart
Overall, I LOVED this episode! A little confused on something, though:
When we see the scene with Echo and Paul in the PRIVATE room or whatever, Echo's handler tells Paul that Echo needs a treatment because "long-term engagements are tricky. Gotta check the wiring." If this is true, then why hasn't Dr.Saunders/Whiskey needed a treatment since Topher made her? ???
Priceless scenes:
Sierra and Ivy. HILARIOUS!!!! :lmao:
Topher and the rats. gotta love it! 🙂
And the scene in Topher's bedroom!
I like Adelle's new haircut and her new feelings towards the actives. Last season, she wouldn't have checked up on them like she did with Victor's scars.
LOVED Dr. Saunders/Whiskey! I loved the way she put the rats in Topher's room, and when she was about to give Echo the sucker but she took it instead. The scene near the end with the note: "I'm running out of excuses" I was so sad when she left! But the scene in Topher's bedroom was awesome!!!!!!
Another thing I loved was Alexis trying to have an American accent! I'm so used to him with the British accent!!! 🙂
When we see the scene with Echo and Paul in the PRIVATE room or whatever, Echo's handler tells Paul that Echo needs a treatment because "long-term engagements are tricky. Gotta check the wiring." If this is true, then why hasn't Dr.Saunders/Whiskey needed a treatment since Topher made her? ???
Priceless scenes:
Sierra and Ivy. HILARIOUS!!!! :lmao:
Topher and the rats. gotta love it! 🙂
And the scene in Topher's bedroom!
I like Adelle's new haircut and her new feelings towards the actives. Last season, she wouldn't have checked up on them like she did with Victor's scars.
LOVED Dr. Saunders/Whiskey! I loved the way she put the rats in Topher's room, and when she was about to give Echo the sucker but she took it instead. The scene near the end with the note: "I'm running out of excuses" I was so sad when she left! But the scene in Topher's bedroom was awesome!!!!!!
Another thing I loved was Alexis trying to have an American accent! I'm so used to him with the British accent!!! 🙂
I think it's because with long term engagements they could start to retain that imprint. But with Dr. Saunders it doesn't matter because she's supposed to be Saunders forever.