Episode Discussion 2.03 "Belle Chose" - Aired 10/9/09 (FOX-US)
- Thread starter Buffy Summers
- Start date
WOW...dont know what to say really...
ok... i loved the whole brain switching thing!
So far this is my fave episode of this season.
Also i wanna know where Dr. Saunders went off to...and is she ok?
Any way,My Favorite part: in the club when Victor was Keke and he hugged Pual.
"You got a Problem??:lmao:
ok... i loved the whole brain switching thing!
So far this is my fave episode of this season.
Also i wanna know where Dr. Saunders went off to...and is she ok?
Any way,My Favorite part: in the club when Victor was Keke and he hugged Pual.
"You got a Problem??:lmao:
Look at that, Colonel Saul.
Now I'm looking forward to see Katee Sackhoff in some kind of role, or even better Grace Park. 🙂
Gotta say that Enver Gjokaj impress me, he's pretty good.
Did a great job as the maniac and was hilarious as a girl.
Really liked this episode, probably my favorite so far this season.
You knew the remote wipe would go bad though, felt a bit too obvious.
/SK
Now I'm looking forward to see Katee Sackhoff in some kind of role, or even better Grace Park. 🙂
Gotta say that Enver Gjokaj impress me, he's pretty good.
Did a great job as the maniac and was hilarious as a girl.
Really liked this episode, probably my favorite so far this season.
You knew the remote wipe would go bad though, felt a bit too obvious.
/SK
Tueuse de Vampires
Love will tear us apart..
Loved the episode! Most hilarious part was Victor's dancing, I was seriously all :lmao:
Although I do feel I should be a bit offended at Joss Whedon's idea of a college girl! For the record, we are really not that dumb 😛
Wow, Topher having some ethical concern, that's new! But I guess it's a good move for the character, showing that he is not completely reckless.
And you know what the best part of the episode was? All that screen time for Paul Ballard :love10:
Although I do feel I should be a bit offended at Joss Whedon's idea of a college girl! For the record, we are really not that dumb 😛
Wow, Topher having some ethical concern, that's new! But I guess it's a good move for the character, showing that he is not completely reckless.
And you know what the best part of the episode was? All that screen time for Paul Ballard :love10:
C
Crashing Doors
Not all college girls are dumb. I know plenty of idiot college girls--and guys, perhaps more guys to be honest.
MinwaraYana
Countess Von Drunkaton
OMG Victor. If I were a man, I'd go gay for him!
Enver did a super great job. 🙂
I miss Sierra, though.
Eliza as a psycho man is great too.
And I agree with Kristine. Paul is so yum-yum. It's the first time I think he's hot. Maybe it's because of his clothes and his investigating action. 😛😛😛
Anyway, I almost fell sleep on the first 20 minutes of the episode. But overall, this is my fav of season 2 so far.
Little note : What Terry did reminds me of House of Wax and Perfume. Love it!
Enver did a super great job. 🙂
I miss Sierra, though.
Eliza as a psycho man is great too.
And I agree with Kristine. Paul is so yum-yum. It's the first time I think he's hot. Maybe it's because of his clothes and his investigating action. 😛😛😛
Anyway, I almost fell sleep on the first 20 minutes of the episode. But overall, this is my fav of season 2 so far.
Little note : What Terry did reminds me of House of Wax and Perfume. Love it!
Buffy Summers
I totally thought they were encased in wax at first
Of course not. That's why the creepy professor needed to hire a doll with an imprint of an incredible dumb college girl. 🙂
A bit suprised that a college professor could afford it though...
/SK
I absolutely loved this episode!
The brain switching idea was awesome. When Ballard shows the guy himself lying in the bed, I was like 'Oooh Adelle, you are a manipulative woman' and then it turned out to be Paul's idea!
I see what you mean about the remote wipe going wrong but I think it still pulled it off. I knew it would go wrong, but at first I thought they'd all just be wiped back to doll state, then I thought that it was going to be all the active dolls would be the killer and THEN it was just that they switched.
I was literally cackling my heart out during the dancing scene. When he puts his leg over the DJ deck and bends backwards...ahahaha. And I think my highlight was also Paul stroking Victor's hair, saying 'You got a problem?' I really hope we get some more scenes with Paul and Victor, I think they could get some real comedy there.
Aw, Kristine, I think you're mean to say Topher has only just started developing ethical problems. At first, he obviously had to show that he thought the whole concept of the Dollhouse was correct, or he wouldn't devote his whole life to it, but I think towards the end of season one and the situation with Whiskey that there's a lot more to him than we're given to expect.
I will be so gutted if this does get cancelled. This episode definitely shows are what good there is to come...
The brain switching idea was awesome. When Ballard shows the guy himself lying in the bed, I was like 'Oooh Adelle, you are a manipulative woman' and then it turned out to be Paul's idea!
I see what you mean about the remote wipe going wrong but I think it still pulled it off. I knew it would go wrong, but at first I thought they'd all just be wiped back to doll state, then I thought that it was going to be all the active dolls would be the killer and THEN it was just that they switched.
I was literally cackling my heart out during the dancing scene. When he puts his leg over the DJ deck and bends backwards...ahahaha. And I think my highlight was also Paul stroking Victor's hair, saying 'You got a problem?' I really hope we get some more scenes with Paul and Victor, I think they could get some real comedy there.
Aw, Kristine, I think you're mean to say Topher has only just started developing ethical problems. At first, he obviously had to show that he thought the whole concept of the Dollhouse was correct, or he wouldn't devote his whole life to it, but I think towards the end of season one and the situation with Whiskey that there's a lot more to him than we're given to expect.
I will be so gutted if this does get cancelled. This episode definitely shows are what good there is to come...
Nix
[No message]
Kristine you have to stop getting so offended! 😛 She was intentionally made dumb - that was the point of the engagement 😉 Remember when Echo played a college student in season one? She wasn't dumb then 🙂
Kanazaka
Potential
The opening scene led me to believe that this episode would be a commentary on how the Dollhouse is equally as evil as Terry, but actually turned out to be a revelation of the Dollhouse's limits. Although, I was intrigued by the intercutting between Terry's speech and the professor's conversation. I don't agree that treating women as sex objects is the same as treating them as emotionless dolls with whom one can play. Neither does the Dollhouse, apparently, especially if lives are at risk, but it depends on the circumstance. After all, the Dollhouse has no qualms about turning dolls into assassins or thieves. I haven't seen any "torture porn" movies, but this episode kind of made me think of that genre. These women are Terry's playthings, just as Jigsaw's captives are his playthings (or so I imagine). What's worse, though, is that these women were not allowed to speak, think, or move--they are dolls in the most literal sense. At least the Dollhouse's dolls are allowed to speak, move and act human, even if those acts are superficial and/or archetypal. And Terry's case is an interesting borderline between misogyny and general misanthropy, as Terry clearly also hated his uncle and had no qualms about killing him. Great empathy from Adele, who showed that she clearly abhors senseless torture and murder. I, too, liked Victor as Kiki dancing in the nightclub, since it offered some nice comic relief to contrast with the terror. I also especially liked the build-up of suspense as Echo asked the women captives to kill her in order to kill Terry, and they took the bait. I knew that the Dollhouse would swoop in to rescue Echo and the captives, but the timing was excellent. Again, I think that the self-aware Echo is a more interesting character than her as a placid doll.
MinwaraYana
Wow, I never thought about comparing Terry's doll with Dollhouse's doll before. That's just great thought of yours. :)
Fusions2
Stark Industries Employee
Very interesting episode this week. It felt more like the Dollhouse we had come to know and love towards the end of season 1 with the twists and turns. You can start to see the little bits of what will become Epitaph One seeping in to this season. Especially with the remote wiping and what it does to technology and the dolls. I thought Victor as Kiki dancing that nightclub was freakin' hilarious I was laughing my arse off at him. I loved it when him and Paul were hugging and Paul just took it in his stride and played along.
Victor as Terry was rather creepy more so in the interview room and when he attacked his uncle in the car. I thought though the original Terry was more creepy and Echo having Terry dumped in to her mind was interesting. Loved the ending though with self-aware Echo saying the victims needed to kill her in order to kill Terry.
Overall a great episode, can't wait for next week's though with it being a Sierra centric episode.
Victor as Terry was rather creepy more so in the interview room and when he attacked his uncle in the car. I thought though the original Terry was more creepy and Echo having Terry dumped in to her mind was interesting. Loved the ending though with self-aware Echo saying the victims needed to kill her in order to kill Terry.
Overall a great episode, can't wait for next week's though with it being a Sierra centric episode.
Willow-Tree
Your Childhood Trauma
Perhaps each of the episodes will be character-centric. Like Episode 2 was mainly about Echo, 3 was Victor/Echo, and 4 will be Sierra/Echo?
faeriegrrl27
Resident Jew
GREAT episode! Victor was funny, Paul didn't annoy me, the villain was creepy... and I thought it was kinda cool that the professor's fantasy was a modern-day Wife of Bathe. That's my kind of nerd!
Bluebird
two by two, hands of blue
- Joined
- May 17, 2008
- Messages
- 6,416
I thought it was a great episode, even if it took a bit of time to get going. Loved the comparison between Terry's 'dolls' and the actives. He was a real creep. Enver Gjokaj impresses me more and more each episode, he really is a wonderful actor. And funny too. 😀 That dancing scene was classic.
Nix
🤪
I have to jump on the "I loved it" bandwagon as I did. I thought it was brilliant and explored the darker side and I am interested in how this accendental imprint will effect Echo in the future.
LittleMissLikesToFight
Into Every Generation...
Enver was fantastic. I think he really got the speech and mannerisms down of the other actor who portrayed Terry just right. Also as Kiki... hilarious.
I love when Paul reads Terry's full name and goes "what part of that is not a girl's name?" and Terry/Victor is like "what?" And then Paul just continues on. it was so great.
I didn't feel Eliza was as strong in portraying Terry, but then, she only had a few lines as him so I guess to judge just on that is kind of harsh.
The professor thing was sort of creepy, but at the same time it's one of thos "taboo" things that people think about but don't talk about, which Joss loves to cover lol.
Def a great episode, riveting and kept me thoroughly entertained.
I love when Paul reads Terry's full name and goes "what part of that is not a girl's name?" and Terry/Victor is like "what?" And then Paul just continues on. it was so great.
I didn't feel Eliza was as strong in portraying Terry, but then, she only had a few lines as him so I guess to judge just on that is kind of harsh.
The professor thing was sort of creepy, but at the same time it's one of thos "taboo" things that people think about but don't talk about, which Joss loves to cover lol.
Def a great episode, riveting and kept me thoroughly entertained.
Frketson
The Late Goodbye
Really liked the ep, this is finally a good standalone. If first season had episodes like this it would have had stronger ratings.
Enver really showed how much better he is at acting than eliza.
Enver really showed how much better he is at acting than eliza.
Tsquared
self inflicted
Ha-ha, yeah Enver's scene as a woman was hilarious. I was laughing throughout it, I mean I guess because the switch in personalities was so drastic and realistic (acting). It was awesomeness!
But yeah, I really enjoyed this episode. I hope we see more like this -- that can actually make me laugh as hard as I did.. and I'm digging Echo's continuing self-awareness, even if it's kinda getting old. She's definitely evolving, even if it's slower than what I personally like.
But yeah, I really enjoyed this episode. I hope we see more like this -- that can actually make me laugh as hard as I did.. and I'm digging Echo's continuing self-awareness, even if it's kinda getting old. She's definitely evolving, even if it's slower than what I personally like.
BELLE CHOSE
The good;
Ballard and the other handler consoling one another whist waiting for their charges to select clothes makes me laugh out loud every time. Victor's girly dancing is just fabulous as is him as Terry (Enver really is the best actor in the cast). I like the fact that Victor's chip is missing due to bureaucracy and oversight, it has that element of truth to it even in a place as sophisticated as the Dollhouse. Echo/Terry stabbing the professor is a real shocker.
The bad;
I know a lot of people say that you can see the human statues move (as you can in the Angel ep 'Just desserts') but you would expect that, they're not real statues they're parlaysed women and the drugs are wearing off. Why not just let Victor go and track him (when he's got his chip in)? How does a guy as lamely dressed as Terry get into a trendy club? Terry's victims seem to accept the Dollhouse tactical team awfully easily, they don't even have 'Police' written on their overalls.
Best line;
Boyd; "Topher has ethical problems. TOPHER!"
plus
Dollhouse fashion guru; "Not exactly a rocket scientist. Normally that's irony but around here you never know"
and
Echo/Kiki; "I mean how hard can it be, it's medi-eaval, it's not even advanced eaval"
Packing heat; nope, croquet mallets and letter openers
Echo;8
Boyd; 8
Dominic; 9
Sierra; 4
Victor; 3
Ballard; 10
November; 1
Echo kissage; 4
Kinky dinky;
The villain appears to be a fan of ASFR, that is a fetish for transforming people into statues/living waxworks/robots. (I know what you're thinking, "Girl, now you're just making this stuff up" but I'm really not, just type ASFR into your search engine and you'll see what I mean.) The shower scenes are back, the fans must have complained that they missed them. Echo comments 'I'm wet' when appearing naked in front of Ballard but she probably means from the shower. Kiki is hot to trot and is delectable in her mini-skirt and knee socks, lovely sexy dance she does for the prof. Nice analogy of female power in Kiki's discussion with the Professor of Chaucer and interesting use of the term 'whippe', Echo/Kiki also seems a fan of wearing spurs "Nasty!" (where would this assigment have gone had it continued?).
Capt subtext;
Topher once again worries that he's creating a 'man reaction' in another male. The head of the Dollhouse clothing department is extremely fey and obviously in his dream job (I originally thought that this might be Harry Groener, Mayor Wilkins from Buffy but it's not). Victor/Kiki and Paul make a rather cute gay couple "Gotta a problem?".
Notches on the Dollhouse bedpost;
Echo; 4 definite, 2 possible
November; 1
Ballard; 1
Victor; 1
Adele; 1
Sierra 1 possible
Topher; 1 possible
How'd they get away with that?
Women imprisoned and struck on the head with a croquet mallet. The poor Prof knifed in the neck.
This weeks fantasy;
Echo AND Victor are Kiki, a scatterbrained but fun-loving student. Victor/Echo are also the villain, creepy dweeb Terry Karrens.
What do we think of the client?
Hard to know what to make of Echo's professor client. He wants to have an affair with one of his students but rather than do it for real he hires Echo to act out the fantasy for him instead, getting to live the dream without tarnishing his professional ethics. I guess that's actually ok, he can't help how he feels so he's doing this to avoid real temptation. The Uncle also seems not a bad guy, keen to rescue his nephew but also wanting to save his victims.
Total number personalitites; 2 for Victor and Echo
Echo; 27
Sierra; 12
Victor; 9
November; 3
Total dolls;
8-Echo, Sierra, November, Victor, Mike, Tango, Alpha, Whiskey
Addy is a bit British;
Topher is a bit geeky;
Love the face to face scene between him and Ivy as they try to reboot everything, very Juggernaut.
Subverting the Hollywood cliche;
. Victor/Kiki goes from gaybashed to bigotbasher. Nice to see the captured girls are actually escaping on their own rather than needing to be rescued "We're not his toys".
Bondage;
Sierra tied up; 1
Ballard; 1
Knocked out;
Echo; 2
November; 1
Sierra; 1
Victor; 1
Topher; 2
Kills;
Sierra; 2 kills
Echo; 3
November;1
Dolls injured;
Poor Echo get's seriously roughed up by the escapers and the guy in the bar tries to punch Victor.
Happy hookers;
Misogynist creep Terry seems to have a hard time with 'Whores' (is he related to Mal Reynolds?)
Know the face? Maybe I should start listing BSG alumni, Michael Hogan the 4th
9 Whedon alumni-Mark Shepherd-2 (Dollhouse/Firefly), Amy Acker-2 (Dollhouse/Angel), walking action figure-2 (Buffy/Dollhouse), Eliza Dushku-3 (Buffy/Angel/Dollhouse), Jim Piddock-2 (Angel/Dollhouse), Gregg Henry-2 (Dollhouse/Firefly), Alan Tudyk-2 (Dollhouse/Firefly), Felicia Day-2(Dollhouse/Buffy), Alexis Denisoff-3 (Buffy, Angel and Dollhouse), Kristoffer Pohala-2 (Dollhouse/Angel), Stacey Scowley-2 (Buffy/Dollhouse)
Guantanamo;
Ballard takes great joy in roughing up Terry, freed from the constraints of the FBI.
Fanfic;
All the ASFR you can shake a human mannequin at; http://www.many-realms.net/LTBSA/index1.html
Missing scenes;.
I heard that the original scene between Ballard and Adele at the end was supposed to go a little differently;
Ballard; "You think there's any chance he's ever going to wake up?"
Adele; (hard as nails) "I wouldn't let him leave here if I did"
Reminds me off;
The concept is a little reminiscent of the Angel eps 'Just desserts' and 'Billy' and the Buffy ep 'Ted'.
Whedon cliches;
Rich and powerful famillies who cover up the evil deeds of their wayward sons (like those from the Angel ep 'Billy). Top security installations which aren't secure at all. Loving self-sacrificing mothers who risk all for their children (Joyce, Darla)
Breaking the programming;
Echo is now able to rebel against Terry and save the girls. Topher is now able to do remote wipes although he screws it up royally.
Questions and observations;
Topher can diagnose psychopaths just by looking at their brainscans. Well this seems a useful skill, let's do that with everyone. This client is so twisted he gives even Topher an ethical dilemma. Rather creepy ending implying that the villain lives on inside Echo's mind but I guess Eleanor Penn, Esther from True Believer, Margeret from Haunted, the mom from 'Instinct', the Dominatrix, the midwife etc inside her can keep him outnumbered and pinned down. Kiki confuses 'middle english' with Tolkiens 'middle earth'. What book is Boyd reading in the van? Why not just have Terry hire out Echo, Sierra and co to act out his fantasies, no one would get hurt and it might help him regain his sanity? No Sierra whatsover this ep.
Marks out of 10; 7/10, fairly funny for an ep with such a dark central subject matter.
The good;
Ballard and the other handler consoling one another whist waiting for their charges to select clothes makes me laugh out loud every time. Victor's girly dancing is just fabulous as is him as Terry (Enver really is the best actor in the cast). I like the fact that Victor's chip is missing due to bureaucracy and oversight, it has that element of truth to it even in a place as sophisticated as the Dollhouse. Echo/Terry stabbing the professor is a real shocker.
The bad;
I know a lot of people say that you can see the human statues move (as you can in the Angel ep 'Just desserts') but you would expect that, they're not real statues they're parlaysed women and the drugs are wearing off. Why not just let Victor go and track him (when he's got his chip in)? How does a guy as lamely dressed as Terry get into a trendy club? Terry's victims seem to accept the Dollhouse tactical team awfully easily, they don't even have 'Police' written on their overalls.
Best line;
Boyd; "Topher has ethical problems. TOPHER!"
plus
Dollhouse fashion guru; "Not exactly a rocket scientist. Normally that's irony but around here you never know"
and
Echo/Kiki; "I mean how hard can it be, it's medi-eaval, it's not even advanced eaval"
Packing heat; nope, croquet mallets and letter openers
Echo;8
Boyd; 8
Dominic; 9
Sierra; 4
Victor; 3
Ballard; 10
November; 1
Echo kissage; 4
Kinky dinky;
The villain appears to be a fan of ASFR, that is a fetish for transforming people into statues/living waxworks/robots. (I know what you're thinking, "Girl, now you're just making this stuff up" but I'm really not, just type ASFR into your search engine and you'll see what I mean.) The shower scenes are back, the fans must have complained that they missed them. Echo comments 'I'm wet' when appearing naked in front of Ballard but she probably means from the shower. Kiki is hot to trot and is delectable in her mini-skirt and knee socks, lovely sexy dance she does for the prof. Nice analogy of female power in Kiki's discussion with the Professor of Chaucer and interesting use of the term 'whippe', Echo/Kiki also seems a fan of wearing spurs "Nasty!" (where would this assigment have gone had it continued?).
Capt subtext;
Topher once again worries that he's creating a 'man reaction' in another male. The head of the Dollhouse clothing department is extremely fey and obviously in his dream job (I originally thought that this might be Harry Groener, Mayor Wilkins from Buffy but it's not). Victor/Kiki and Paul make a rather cute gay couple "Gotta a problem?".
Notches on the Dollhouse bedpost;
Echo; 4 definite, 2 possible
November; 1
Ballard; 1
Victor; 1
Adele; 1
Sierra 1 possible
Topher; 1 possible
How'd they get away with that?
Women imprisoned and struck on the head with a croquet mallet. The poor Prof knifed in the neck.
This weeks fantasy;
Echo AND Victor are Kiki, a scatterbrained but fun-loving student. Victor/Echo are also the villain, creepy dweeb Terry Karrens.
What do we think of the client?
Hard to know what to make of Echo's professor client. He wants to have an affair with one of his students but rather than do it for real he hires Echo to act out the fantasy for him instead, getting to live the dream without tarnishing his professional ethics. I guess that's actually ok, he can't help how he feels so he's doing this to avoid real temptation. The Uncle also seems not a bad guy, keen to rescue his nephew but also wanting to save his victims.
Total number personalitites; 2 for Victor and Echo
Echo; 27
Sierra; 12
Victor; 9
November; 3
Total dolls;
8-Echo, Sierra, November, Victor, Mike, Tango, Alpha, Whiskey
Addy is a bit British;
Topher is a bit geeky;
Love the face to face scene between him and Ivy as they try to reboot everything, very Juggernaut.
Subverting the Hollywood cliche;
. Victor/Kiki goes from gaybashed to bigotbasher. Nice to see the captured girls are actually escaping on their own rather than needing to be rescued "We're not his toys".
Bondage;
Sierra tied up; 1
Ballard; 1
Knocked out;
Echo; 2
November; 1
Sierra; 1
Victor; 1
Topher; 2
Kills;
Sierra; 2 kills
Echo; 3
November;1
Dolls injured;
Poor Echo get's seriously roughed up by the escapers and the guy in the bar tries to punch Victor.
Happy hookers;
Misogynist creep Terry seems to have a hard time with 'Whores' (is he related to Mal Reynolds?)
Know the face? Maybe I should start listing BSG alumni, Michael Hogan the 4th
9 Whedon alumni-Mark Shepherd-2 (Dollhouse/Firefly), Amy Acker-2 (Dollhouse/Angel), walking action figure-2 (Buffy/Dollhouse), Eliza Dushku-3 (Buffy/Angel/Dollhouse), Jim Piddock-2 (Angel/Dollhouse), Gregg Henry-2 (Dollhouse/Firefly), Alan Tudyk-2 (Dollhouse/Firefly), Felicia Day-2(Dollhouse/Buffy), Alexis Denisoff-3 (Buffy, Angel and Dollhouse), Kristoffer Pohala-2 (Dollhouse/Angel), Stacey Scowley-2 (Buffy/Dollhouse)
Guantanamo;
Ballard takes great joy in roughing up Terry, freed from the constraints of the FBI.
Fanfic;
All the ASFR you can shake a human mannequin at; http://www.many-realms.net/LTBSA/index1.html
Missing scenes;.
I heard that the original scene between Ballard and Adele at the end was supposed to go a little differently;
Ballard; "You think there's any chance he's ever going to wake up?"
Adele; (hard as nails) "I wouldn't let him leave here if I did"
Reminds me off;
The concept is a little reminiscent of the Angel eps 'Just desserts' and 'Billy' and the Buffy ep 'Ted'.
Whedon cliches;
Rich and powerful famillies who cover up the evil deeds of their wayward sons (like those from the Angel ep 'Billy). Top security installations which aren't secure at all. Loving self-sacrificing mothers who risk all for their children (Joyce, Darla)
Breaking the programming;
Echo is now able to rebel against Terry and save the girls. Topher is now able to do remote wipes although he screws it up royally.
Questions and observations;
Topher can diagnose psychopaths just by looking at their brainscans. Well this seems a useful skill, let's do that with everyone. This client is so twisted he gives even Topher an ethical dilemma. Rather creepy ending implying that the villain lives on inside Echo's mind but I guess Eleanor Penn, Esther from True Believer, Margeret from Haunted, the mom from 'Instinct', the Dominatrix, the midwife etc inside her can keep him outnumbered and pinned down. Kiki confuses 'middle english' with Tolkiens 'middle earth'. What book is Boyd reading in the van? Why not just have Terry hire out Echo, Sierra and co to act out his fantasies, no one would get hurt and it might help him regain his sanity? No Sierra whatsover this ep.
Marks out of 10; 7/10, fairly funny for an ep with such a dark central subject matter.