3rd slayer

[nerd4hire]

Yeah this is an interesting one. What to do about the "Slayer Line" question...

Usually I do post a step by step explanation when this question re-appears. I post the quote by Joss Whedon answering the question "why isn't there another slayer called after Buffy dies in the gift?" where he explains the line is only through Faith at that point. I post the earlier quote from Marti Noxon where she explains the only through Faith rule in the earlier seasons. I explain the controversy concerning the possibillity the way the line worked changed when Willow brought Buffy back magically in the Bargaining. I tell them how some say the line becomes through Buffy again at that point. Some say it's through Buffy or Faith. Then the arguement starts, and I have to repost all the pertinent information supporting the theory the way the line passes changes in Season 6. Hopefully Joss will answer this question concerning the possibillity of the line changing as a result of the Bargaining spell when he does his Buffy Season 8 series. That will save a lot of grief.

This time I tried something different. I posted a link to the oft-asked questions section of the Whedonverse Index. I see now though that although I can post that link I can't make people click on it. They just see it as another thread with a whole new grouping of posts.

I've tried posting an "ask a question" thread. That didn't work.

Maybe what I should do is create a specific thread where the most commonly asked questions are posted, then stake it. I'll try that when I get the time. I can then say, "the answer to this is posted in the staked Oft-asked Questions thread".

 

[The Arcane]

Hopefully Joss will answer this question concerning the possibillity of the line changing as a result of the Bargaining spell when he does his Buffy Season 8 series. That will save a lot of grief.

Somehow I doubt that, N4H. You know me well enough by now to know that I'm like you in that I prefer it when I know all the facts and like to have all the i's dotted and the t's crossed so I'd love for the whole "who was the active slayer after Buffy came back" debate to be given some definite Joss closure. I get the impression that the events of Chosen will ensure that never happens unfortunately. The question no longer matters.

I think it was in a thread here a while back where I said that I thought that the best opportunity Joss had to clarify this situation was where Giles and Anya get the information from the Beljoxa's Eye. Giles could very easily have been told that upon her mystical resurrection Buffy was once again made the active slayer through some cosmic hiccup in the line. We know Buffy coming back to life certainly disrupted the line somehow or other (that was how the First was able to act) so her retaking the role of active slayer from Faith would certainly be one way that she could have done so.

Had they simply had a short scene in Showtime were Giles explained this to Buffy and the Scoobies then this whole debate would have been avoidable.

 

[nerd4hire]

You know what I sometimes wonder about though. You know how people assign blame to Joss for the stuff that doesn't make sense in Season's 6 and 7? I wonder how accurate that is. As you said before right around Showtime Season 7 begins going for it's nosedive. Stuff that seems to require explanation, isn't explained. Questions go unanswered. Story and character developments are left hanging. Did Joss do that, or was that the point at which Marti Noxon started running the show? My impression is Noxon doesn't attach a lot of import to stuff making sense.

 

[The Arcane]

I'd have to agree. I actually don't blame Joss himself for the occasional storyline problems of the last two seasons, for exactly the reason you mention. Joss had a lot less to do with Buffy by that point and so the real blame is probably best placed at Marti's feet, if any has to be placed. That said, I tend to use Joss' name (as in my above post) to simplify the matter for the members around here that don't know (or don't care) as much about the behind the scenes goings on as we tend to do.

Certainly, you are correct when you say that Marti was a lot less bothered about the details of an issue than Joss. He tended to write stories with an eye for every little point being established were as Marti seemed more interested in getting the story told and the action delivered and not worrying about the hows and whys so much. That is very likely why the last season seemed a little more rushed than we were used to. Maybe if Joss had been more involved in Showtime then that scene I described would have appeared, in some way, shape or form.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

I'd have to agree. I actually don't blame Joss himself for the occasional storyline problems of the last two seasons, for exactly the reason you mention. Joss had a lot less to do with Buffy by that point and so the real blame is probably best placed at Marti's feet, if any has to be placed. That said, I tend to use Joss' name (as in my above post) to simplify the matter for the members around here that don't know (or don't care) as much about the behind the scenes goings on as we tend to do.

Certainly, you are correct when you say that Marti was a lot less bothered about the details of an issue than Joss. He tended to write stories with an eye for every little point being established were as Marti seemed more interested in getting the story told and the action delivered and not worrying about the hows and whys so much. That is very likely why the last season seemed a little more rushed than we were used to. Maybe if Joss had been more involved in Showtime then that scene I described would have appeared, in some way, shape or form.

See here is where we differ as I believe, particularly for season 7, Joss is 100% accountable.
By the beginning of this season, he must have known that he didn't want to continue with Buffy after it.
He would also have been aware at certain cast members beginning to consider leaving when their contracts were up.
There would also have been 'grumblings' that maybe the studio was considering it was time for the show to go.
Now if Joss was aware of any of this, let alone it all, he should have really been willing to give the show the 'send off' it deserved.
We have to ask ourselves why wasn't he so involved during these seasons, as opposed to the earlier seasons where he studied every script.
I'm sorry, but this was the show that made him. This was the show that told the world who this guy was and what he could do. The fans of the show(alot of them) have such a huge reverence for him, he owed it to everyone that was involved, be it making or watching, to have done a great season 7.

The more I think about it, the more I get the impression Joss has realised his mistake and thats why he is creating this comic.

Firefly didn't get him that other hit show, nor did Serenity get him that hit movie(he wanted sequels, sequels would have come if he had made a financially successful movie). Thats not to say his shows weren't good, he just didn't have the audience. I honestly feel he took his 'fans' for granted and alot of them noticed. They didn't wish to invest into his work because he wasn't willing to see his 'projects' to the end.
He now realises his mistake, so comes back with his 'Canon' Buffy Comic, hoping to win back the fans.

 

[The Arcane]

I'm halfway there with you in that opinion, BotD. Whilst I do think that Joss had the right to let others do the day to day stuff on Buffy so that he was able to watch over the other projects he was working on, I actually do think that he dropped the ball with Buffy in the final season.

Fair enough, he was a very busy guy by that point. It only made sense to hand over some of the work to his other writers. That said, as you pointed out, Buffy was the show that made him the fanbase he had and it deserved more of his attention in it's final season than I believe it got, particularly midway through the year.

On the other hand, I don't think it was ever a case of Joss taking the fans for granted. I think he has always been the type to take on way too much on not always be able to meet the demands he puts on himself. Flipping the coin over again though, you may well be correct in him regretting not being there to give BtVS the sendoff the show deserved and that may play a part in him wanting to go back and tell more of the story in comic form.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

I've always had the impression Joss wanted to make movies.
He wants to be a, albeit credible/indieish, Steven Spielberg.
Of the three shows he creates, Firefly was without doubt his best possibility of achieving another step by making it a film.
In Hollywood, you are only as good as your last movie, and in terms of financial, Serenity didn't live up to expectations.

Luckily for him, he had Wonder Woman in the works before the monies were counted, BUT if that fails to secure a decent profit, Joss might as well go back to script editting.
Problem with WW is, not only does he need to get his fanbase back, he also has to contend with the fact that Comic Book movies are very fickle. Ones that should do amazingly don't.
I think he is worried that if his fans don't go, then he will lose out big time...hence Season 8.

Joss Whedon once said 'I don't give the viewers what they want, I give them what they need' in reference to who he killed off at the end of Chosen.
This to me suggests nothing more than him stroking his ego. He tells us what we want, which again, I believe is part of his undoing.

I've had many a conversation with others about Joss.
I like Buffy and Angel, I really do BUT I don't worship at the alter of Joss. He is, after all, just a man. A man with a huge staff that helps him create good TV.