8/24/08 - 8/31/08 Episode Discussion: I Will Remember You

[SpikedBuffy]

Episode title: I Will Remember You
Season: one


Calling all Bangel fans! 🙂

Discussion this episode here. What did you like about this episode? What did you dislike? I'm sure that this one will merit a lot of discussion!

 

[Blondie Bear]

One word: SOB! And also *sniffle*.

 

[Bangelxx]

aaw I LOVED this episode!
my favorite angel episode ever! Everything was just done perfectly. I cry every time i watch the end, its so sad *cry*.
I just wish that Buffy would REMEMBER!

 

[SpikedBuffy]

I'm not a Bangel fan (duh), but I do like two parts of this episode. The first part I like is when Doyle asks Angel "What do you want?" after he is told by the Oracles that he is free to be human, and then he goes and kisses Buffy, showing us what we really wants. It's not a surprise, but it's a nice break from the gloom and doom Angel. He knows what he wants, and he goes to get it.

I also like the end, when Buffy and Angel only have a minute left. I might not like their character relationship, but Sarah and David do have unbelievable chemistry. It totally gives me goosebumps.

 

[white avenger]

I am not a Bangel fan, so you might choose to disregard my comments here, but I truly believe that Angel's actions at the end of the episode were both selfish and downright cruel. I'm not talking about the sacrificing his humanity thing here, that was plain ego on his part. There was no reason whatsoever for him not to have been an affective demon fighter, even a champioh, and retain his humanity. Others on both shows are perfect examples of ordinary people who did exactly that.

My biggest problem with this episode was, after he had made the decision to give up his humanity without consulting Buffy about it, even though it affected her at least as much as it did her, why in the name of every hell dimension in the entire Buffyverse did the b**tard have to tell her what he had done and why in those last few moments? Why couldn't he have just kissed her, told her that he loved her, and held her while the last few seconds ticked away? Sure, it was dramatic for an ending to the episode, but as far as his actions in and of themselves, they were nothing short of sheer cruelty. Whatever else you might think of this episode, Angel raped Buffy's mind in a far worse way that Spike only attempted to do to her body years later in "Seeing Red," because Spike at least did something after what he had done to make himself a better man, to be more deserving of Buffy's love. All that Angel did afterward was brood.

And don't bring the Shanshu thing up here, because what sense did it make for Angel to reject humanity on one occasion, then "aspire" to it later? Whether he was given his humanity by accident or earned it through good deeds wouldn't make any difference as far as "protecting" the Slayer is concerned. If she was likely to die protecting her fully human ex-vampire lover, it wouldn't make any difference whether he was an ex-vampire by accident or as a reward for his accumulated good deeds.

I rest my case, and I'm sure that there are a whole bunch of folks just itching to rip me up for my opinions, so cut loose. I've called it as I saw it, and neither Spuffy nor Bangel entered into it in any way. Cruelty is cruelty, and that is exactly what I see in this episode.

 

[Kemy]

So, so wrong. But you old fogies and your silly ideas. I'll just go watch some more *cough*BANGEL*cough*

 

[Kean]

This is probably my favourite and least favourite episode of Angel all wrapped up in one. It was the episode every Bangel wanted to happen with the worst possible ending.

I agree with WA to a certain extent, it was cruel. The final scenes in Angel's apartment, like those in "Innocence" are gut wrenching at times. SMG and DB were at their best in those scenes in my opinion. I disagree though with WA's suggestion that somehow Spike's attempted rape of Buffy wasn't as bad as Angel swallowing the day. What Angel did brought him no joy, no pleasure. It killed him to do it but he was told that Buffy would die. If you were told the love of you life was going to die and you could somehow stop it, is there anyone here who genuinely wouldn't jump at any chance to save them? Spike may have gone on to be a better man after he attacked Buffy but I don't see why he should get a pat on the back for that when that is exactly what Angel did too and he gets lamblasted for being a martyr. He went on and tried to be a better man, to help people.

 

[white avenger]

This is probably my favourite and least favourite episode of Angel all wrapped up in one. It was the episode every Bangel wanted to happen with the worst possible ending.

I agree with WA to a certain extent, it was cruel. The final scenes in Angel's apartment, like those in "Innocence" are gut wrenching at times. SMG and DB were at their best in those scenes in my opinion. I disagree though with WA's suggestion that somehow Spike's attempted rape of Buffy wasn't as bad as Angel swallowing the day. What Angel did brought him no joy, no pleasure. It killed him to do it but he was told that Buffy would die. If you were told the love of you life was going to die and you could somehow stop it, is there anyone here who genuinely wouldn't jump at any chance to save them? Spike may have gone on to be a better man after he attacked Buffy but I don't see why he should get a pat on the back for that when that is exactly what Angel did too and he gets lamblasted for being a martyr. He went on and tried to be a better man, to help people.

I think that Angel's "swallowing the day" was just as bad as Spike's attempted rape, not worse. Angel raped her mind, Spike attempted to rape her body. Both are equally heinous. As for Angel suffering because of his decision, I fully agree. He hurt the woman he loved in the worst way possible. What I meant was that he did so unnecessarily. Within one minute, all memory of that day would be gone. Why did he have to tell her? One minute wasn't enough time to do anything other than watch her cry when there was no need in it. He could have just as easily not said anything, and had the memory of those final few seconds be of a smiling happy girl, not one crying and whimpering "That's too soon..." He didn't tell Buffy beforehand about the decision, he made it on his own. He should have taken the pain on himself as well. He should either share both or keep both to himself. He didn't even have to lie about it. He could have just told her he loved her and let the moment pass.

 

[Kean]

I think that Angel's "swallowing the day" was just as bad as Spike's attempted rape, not worse. Angel raped her mind, Spike attempted to rape her body. Both are equally heinous. As for Angel suffering because of his decision, I fully agree. He hurt the woman he loved in the worst way possible. What I meant was that he did so unnecessarily. Within one minute, all memory of that day would be gone. Why did he have to tell her? One minute wasn't enough time to do anything other than watch her cry when there was no need in it. He could have just as easily not said anything, and had the memory of those final few seconds be of a smiling happy girl, not one crying and whimpering "That's too soon..." He didn't tell Buffy beforehand about the decision, he made it on his own. He should have taken the pain on himself as well. He should either share both or keep both to himself. He didn't even have to lie about it. He could have just told her he loved her and let the moment pass.

As I seem to recall Angel tried to pass off his absence as nothing but Buffy saw through him, said he had "something face". Your right, it would have been alot easier to try and play out their last moments as if they hadn't a care in the world but Buffy had already twigged something was wrong, if he had maintained the contrary they would have spent their last moments fighting, because we both know Buffy would not have let that go.

You seem to insuate that Angel told her just to be cruel. We both know how much I disagree with that notion. Why did he do it? Personally, I think it was a moment of weakness. His world had pretty much just fallen apart and needed to share it with the one person who would get it. I'm not saying it was fair on Buffy but he didn't exactly get the good end of the deal. Also I think he needed her approval. True he didn't ask her before he went to the Oracles but he didn't know he would be giving up his life when he went to see them. Buffy told him that she understood why he did it, that was the green light he needed. Also I think he may have been undecided about whether to tell her or not afterwards. Buffy's plea of "How am I supposed to go on with my life knowing what we had what we could have had" answered that qustion for him. How could he ever tell her after that?

 

[white avenger]

As I seem to recall Angel tried to pass off his absence as nothing but Buffy saw through him, said he had "something face". Your right, it would have been alot easier to try and play out their last moments as if they hadn't a care in the world but Buffy had already twigged something was wrong, if he had maintained the contrary they would have spent their last moments fighting, because we both know Buffy would not have let that go.

You seem to insuate that Angel told her just to be cruel. We both know how much I disagree with that notion. Why did he do it? Personally, I think it was a moment of weakness. His world had pretty much just fallen apart and needed to share it with the one person who would get it. I'm not saying it was fair on Buffy but he didn't exactly get the good end of the deal. Also I think he needed her approval. True he didn't ask her before he went to the Oracles but he didn't know he would be giving up his life when he went to see them. Buffy told him that she understood why he did it, that was the green light he needed. Also I think he may have been undecided about whether to tell her or not afterwards. Buffy's plea of "How am I supposed to go on with my life knowing what we had what we could have had" answered that qustion for him. How could he ever tell her after that?

Angel wasn't intentionally cruel, but, intentional or not, his actions most certainly were. If the woman who I loved more than anything else in this world asked me why I was wearing my "something face" under those circumstances, I would have looked her in the eye, lied to her, and done whatever it took to distract her. If that didn't work, then I would have told her that if she could just trust me for a few more minutes, I would explain everything. See, I'm a coward. If it comes down to lying to avoid hurting someone I love, I'll lie every time, and under those circumstances, the lie would have been far less cruel than the truth. Angel was already prepared to bear the pain and responsibility of his decision alone. Living with a lie under those circumstances wouldn't have hurt him any more, and it would have spared Buffy a lot of pain, even if she would have forgotten it within a few moments.

 

[Tranquillity]

I think he should have told Buffy about it afterwards. I think it was fundamentally wrong to let Buffy head back to Sunnydale without telling her the truth about taking the day back. He tells his buddy Doyle all about it, who then tells Cordelia, but Buffy herself is left in the dark with no knowledge of it and the fact that Angel rejected his chance at humanity and chose to go back to being a vampire. His reasons for doing so are undeniably noble, but the nobility of his actions are undermined by his omission of the truth. Buffy heads back to Sunnydale none the wiser, and still with her glowing ember of hope regarding Angel and the future and yet he has categorically turned the future she dreams of down. I can't help but wonder if maybe her whole outlook on love/romance would have been altered if she's known what really happened.

 

[ItMustBeBunnies]

This is freaky I JUST watched this episode before I came on here! so its all fresh in my head!. Im not a bangel but I use to be, and remember finding this episode incredibly romantic and I guess I still do. My favourite bit is near the ending "I felt your heart beat..." (sniff). In terms of should he have told buffy the truth? Ive got mixed feelings on the subject, but I think Tranquillity summed it up quiet nicely though. I think she would be extreamly ticked off if she found out, look how she reacted just to him coming to sunndale and tring to help her.

 

[Karol]

You know, I´m no Bangel, so... xD

But the episode is cute, and it´s very funny to watch Angel in love for food =P

 

[Bluebird]

I'm really torn about this episode. I love it but I think the story is a bit wonky. It's one last chance for us to see Buffy and Angel together but we all knew how it was going to end. But for all it's inconsistencies and plot holes I can forgive it, if only for that last scene. Beautifully done. Buffy's cries of 'I'll never forget' are so sad. ::crying2:

 

[Aleris]

I love this episode for a lot of different reasons.
But I'm kind of iffed by WA saying that the end was equal to Angel raping her. His actions being selfish or not ... that comment just doesn't sit right with me. I'm going to leave it there or I might start to get narky.

Yeah it was selfish of him to tell her, instead of just creating a beautiful memory for himself alone to cherish rather than leaving it on that sad note, but I think in his mind there was also the hope that being the Slayer that maybe she would remember somehow.

Everyone says things or do things in order to explain or clear their consciences for reasons they probably think are acceptable but to the outside eye gets judged as very selfish. He thought he was doing the right thing not only by giving Buffy all the info, even if she wasn't going to remember it, but by giving himself some clarity or closure or whatever. Why should he be held to a higher standard than anyone else?

*shrugs*

 

[Skanky Vamp]

I think in his mind there was also the hope that being the Slayer that maybe she would remember somehow.

I always thought it had more to do with the fact that SHE didnt tell him she was running him through with the sword and why. She created this beautiful moment for him (at the end of season two) and then ran him thru with a sword for no reason - as far as he knew.

 

[hannahfngrl26]

As I am a huge Bangel fan this episode is right up there with The Prom for me. Oh where to begin. For me this episode encompasses everything that I wanted for them both for about 22 minutes and then it is all ripped away. Just thinking about it now kills me. There are so many things about this episode I love. First, I love the dialogue between Cordy and Doyle in regards to Bangels relationship. I love how she explains its all pain and fighting and then bring on the hurt. So true. I love how Doyle is kind of just watching in the background taking in the wonder that is Bangel. Additionally, that first scene when Bangel are in the kitchen having tea or whatever after Angel gets all humany and they are talking about being all responsible but that goes out the window and it is all chocolate chip cookie dough ice cream and bed which is the best combination ever. Seeing them like that only reaffirmed my undying love for Bangel. And then, when Angel makes the ultimate sacrifice (for Buffy and the world and himself) and decided to keep the powers that made him a champion. C'mon people. I know that there were people who were normal that helped. But lets be real. How effective could he have really been totally human. Regardless of the person, each "human" involved in the saving of the world had something that made them more than normal. I think Angel deciding to continue to fight evil only shows how amazing he is. If it were me, I would have chosen to be human and be with the one I love versus saving the world which is what truly shows what he is made of. And additionally, that scene when Angel does tell her what he did, I cry everytime. BTW, if Buffy had been consulted prior to the switch do you think she would have let him do it or made sure he did not?