A marine's Letter To The NFL

white avenger

white avenger

white avenger
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Someone sent this to my wife, and I think that it bears sharing. Agree or disagree, but just consider who wrote it, and the spirit in which it was written.

 
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white avenger said:
Someone sent this to my wife, and I think that it bears sharing. Agree or disagree, but just consider who wrote it, and the spirit in which it was written.

Click to expand...

I absolutely agree with this. And whenever I see those buffoons on the news, it passes me off. A bunch of hood rats who lucked out with a football contract...oh, so you're going to kneel when the anthem is played? Attention-seeking morons.
 
I FINALLY looked this up, though I ignored it as I've heard others mention it, not even bother to ask what it is because there's so many mountains made out of molehills these days and this sounded like another one...and after clicking on a couple of sites I still don't know what it's about. It sounds like more Trump drama (and I'm unclear if it started out as a response to something Trump said or if Trump made a statement over a stunt pulled within the NFL). Maybe if I knew more about the NFL then I'd understand the nuances and thus what exactly is happening. I'm not going to click on several more sites (many of them thinly veiled propaganda sites and fake news that will also try to attach a lot of unwanted crap onto my computer) to learn about what seems to me to be a tempest in a teapot (though if I were a major football fan then it probably would seem a lot more important to me).

I don't romanticize military service enough to buy what that marine says (nor is the music, etc, going to manipulate me), but at the same time it doesn't seem proper to be be disrespecting the national anthem (and thus a great many people, including fans) or whatever the hell they're doing, especially if it's over whoever is in office. It was bad when people were asses over Obama, and still is when it's over Trump, and I can't take someone's complaints about Trump seriously if they sink to his level of pettiness and churlishness (just FYI, I tend to skip over any online posts that describe "Trump" as "Dump" even though I don't like that he's the POTUS either--not because he's a Republican, but because he's himself). And it strikes me as worrisome for reasons I'm sure no one here would understand.
 
Marines die fighting for their country yes, but black people die for being black. I support any black person who chooses to kneel during the anthem. It has nothing to do with the military, it has to do with people of their own race getting murdered for who they are. I'd kneel too if I were them.
 
Democracy = Fighting in a politically controversial war overseas gives you the right to dictate when it is appropriate for others to protest bigotry inland.

I love America. I still believe it is a city on the hill in many respects, and I take a lot of shit from my peers for saying so 😛 However, there are skeletons in the closest. Some are old, such as systematic genocide and slavery. Others are fresh and still stinky. I think it should be all right refrain from a unconditional celebration of a society that is deeply flawed.

ABK calls the footballers "a bunch of hood rats who lucked out with a football contract." That is probably an apt description. This people are not poor. They are filthy rich. They have no reason to fear the police, because they lucked out. It did not have to be this way for them. I am sure they often think about the lives they would have led if they had not gotten that golden ticket, so they protest on behalf of others.
 
Blaze
Blaze
And we need those people in a position to protest to do so. A regular Joe might get shot for protesting, but an NFL star won't. They must use that power to make change happen
I don't see the big deal, what's so disrespectful about kneeling? When your at a game and the flag comes out and they sing the national anthem there are hundreds if not thousands of fans who aren't standing with their hands over their hearts, many are worrried about getting their beer and popcorn quick enough not to miss the start of the game. How come no one is up in arms about that disrespect?

And for every vet you see write a litter like this you can find one who will tell you this is the exact type of thing they fought for...The right to protest. So who he is and the spirit in which he wrote it doesn't hold much weight.

How come no one seems upset over American flag bikinis, bandanas, advertising images, uniforms etc that are all listed as disrespectful in the Flag Code of Conduct? Speaking of which, standing and/or kneeling isn't even mentioned in it.

This is a bizarre hill to die on.

Edit:

Here is the Federal Flag Code that was put into place in 1923.
 
*deep sigh*. I had to come back to this thread multiple times and gather my thoughts, cause ignorance abounds in this world, (and unfortunately in this very thread) and I want to preserve my energy. I won't get that in depth with this subject, ( or maybe I will 😉) because it pisses me off that people still don't get it, but here's what I will say. America has never, and I repeat never, treated black people with any semblance of respect. (If so, I want proof.) Not in the past, not in the present, and certainly not in the future unless we stop being so ignorant and right our wrongs. As far as the anthem, if you actually read it, you should already know that it celebrates slavery in the third verse, which is conveniently left out:

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country, should leave us no more?
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave,
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

Now, here's the part where someone tries to explain why descendants of slaves should respect that. Calling Kaepernick and the people that kneeled out for being "disrespectful" to the anthem and flag must've used that same logic to condemn Rosa Parks for refusing to give up her seat. Why, because she hates buses? And what about those players that kneeled? Do we know where they're from? Do we know what they go through on a daily basis? Nearly every single black celebrity has said that it doesn't matter how much money you have or how famous you are, they are black first, people second. Chris Rock has been repeatedly harassed and stopped by the cops, Henry Louis Gates explains how he was harassed and searched by cops for lurking around his own residence, and believe me, these are no isolated incidences. So now that the myth of "black money=better treatment" is thrown out the window, we can get down to the root of the protest. There is no right time to protest. Ever. The whole point of protests are to make people as uncomfortable as possible so that they'll get off of their high horses and realize we have a serious problem that we need to address. Why not protest during one of the most watched televised events in America? Why the hell not? Seem to me like people didn't an opinion about black people being murdered for no reason until Kaepernick started his protests.

But his protest is valid, just like the Montgomery bus system protest was. You can disagree with their methodology all you want, but the point still stands. We need to address and combat police brutality in America. That's it. It's about human beings, not ideology. I'm wary of any person who shows intense patriotism, honestly. Now I have nothing against veterans and people who served this country. Most of them genuinely believed they did for the right reasons. But patriotism is a lie. It is blind subservience to the state. And it censors the realities of war. Why should anybody celebrate and be proud of a country that was built on the backs of other people, and still operates as such? Why should I automatically respect you because you have a uniform? Do those people know exactly what they're fighting for? Are all veterans "good people" who love and want to protect and serve all people? These are the questions we need to ask ourselves instead of blinding following the orders of an historically violent regime. It serves nobody any favors, especially the people who have been historically treated like cattle: black people. All in all, people need to take a step back and figure out why these people are risking their careers and livelihoods for this protest, and if you don't have any other alternatives for what should be done to address these problems then disrespectfully speaking, you should keep your mouth shut.

Over and out. 🙂
 
Evil Seal
Evil Seal
In France, if you're too patriotic, you're considered an extremist. As a French person, I've never understood this intense American patriotism. Thanks for showing us that not everybody thinks alike
Everyone should have a right to protest, yes, but I would like to see people actually address the bigger problems that Black Americans face, and work to combat that too, rather than only focusing on the police. If every person who was a part of Black Lives Matter mentored a child, for example, what a different world this would be. Police reform is most definitely needed, but using a convenient target to sweep other problems under the rug helps no one.
 
The BLM movement isn't just about police brutality, yet it does play a significant part in the continued oppression of black people. How do you know that BLM activists aren't out here mentoring children? Cause I know quite a number of them. The media has bashed and tarnished the BLM movement so badly, that it's impossible to bring it up without hate being thrown at it. The whole point of the movement (as stated on the site) was not only to combat police brutality, but housing discrimination, job discrimination, the school to prison pipeline, among many other problems. Don't people realize the media used the same tactics to tear the Black Panther movement apart, and quite successfully, despite the original goal of the Panthers, which was to combat police brutality. My question is why are we still asking the same questions?
 
Surely some people are, but what I'm saying is that if every person who marched in a rally went out and did something to effect real change (which, we can see that that is not happening), it would make a real difference, to much bigger problems than just the police. Let's also not pretend we are talking about the 1960s and the heroes who stood up to police in those times. Let's be real and go after the big problems as well as the smaller ones.
 
You're definitely right about that, of course not every person out here in these rallies are going to effect real change. But is it any better than sitting at home doing nothing? I think that the police brutality is an ENORMOUS problem, and it's enormous because of its brutality. People are routinely stopped, frisked, and beaten every single day. Sure, we have other problems to face, which as far back as I can remember, there's been people on the streets helping their community on a grassroots level. Yet we can't do everything all at once, and since the problems are so vast, I think we should start by taking it one issue at a time. Do you have any suggestions as to how the black community should improve? Honest question, and in order for any movement to succeed, we need as much ideas as possible.
 
I think we need to look at violence in our streets, person against person, which is far more immediate threat than police violence. Which it feels like people today want to pretend doesn't exist. Education and positive role models would go a long way to breaking the cycle of poverty in a lot of our communities, and keep kids away from violence and crime.
 
I think people tend to forget just how much being born into poverty culture influences how you're going to act in life. If you were raised into violence, depravity, broken homes due to mass incarceration, and failing schools, then that's literally all you know. How can we combat the violence and crime in our streets unless we look at the circumstances that create it? Individual liberty and free will means nothing when you live in a neighborhood and society that sets you up to fail, and that's the part I think a lot of people don't understand. Until every race gets paid on an equal level, and until we stop underestimating how much the government is in on all of this, we will always have violence and crime. Always. If a group of people can build the fabrics and the structures and the foundations of this country without receiving ONE CENT, how can we improve anything? We had nothing to start out with. And if you look at the statistics, damn near half of all black people in this country live below the poverty line. That doesn't exist in a vacuum. It's largely due to government neglect. The middle and upper class always needs a lower class. Without the lower class, all of it falls. That's exactly what the people in power don't want, they just want to keep the money to themselves while everyone else fights and scraps for leftovers. Don't you see how all of that factors into inner city crime? And it doesn't only affect black people, black people just receive the shitty end of the stick due to not receiving any sort of financial compensation to start building better communities. We've tried, and failed. Time and time again. It affects all Americans, and until we all come together on something, anything, we will always have these problems.
 
@ Living Dead Boy

I'm not for looking it all up again, but I thought I'd toss in that even a person not raised in such an environment who then enters poverty will have their general brain capacity reduced. Poverty kicks in other areas of the brain more concerned with survival which makes it harder to concentrate, and of course it makes it a lot harder to use opportunities to improve one's self, even if no one actually tries to hold you back, or otherwise act on ignorant assumptions.

And interesting enough, there was some study or research that showed a teacher's attitude affected student grades, the long story short is that teachers who actually believed in their students inspired students to believe in themselves. My memory is vague and I did just try a search but can't find the right search terms to find it, so all I can say is the gist was telling teachers that students who had been failing were actually gifted caused the failing students put into those classes to improve their grades remarkably. (On a similar note, kinda hard to be positive when there's so much internalized racism.)

But I did look one thing up. Many like to praise this teacher for what he did (he actually believed his students were capable, even if they were failing at the time), conveniently overlooking that he's the exception to the rule, and much more importantly, what was done to him and his program that look as if failing schools were actually the goal (for that matter, if a school sports team that became winners were to suddenly start to lose when the coach gets replaced then you can bet the community would demand an analysis and or corrective measures, including the reinstatement of the previous coach, but not for math). Here:

Jaime Escalante - Wikipedia

It doesn't give a lot of details (at least not that I saw in the skim I just gave it), such as how school faculty were trying to sabotage him from the start for the most trivial of reasons (despite that the school should've been desperate for improvement!), and it wouldn't have happened at all if one member of the faculty in particular hadn't been so supportive in fighting for him and his methods. IIRC, he also went to Washington DC to speak with the US Department of Education and even politicians who invited him (because of his name recognition that they wanted to capitalize upon) but all were completely uninterested in replicating his success, or even helping him at all, and IIRC this was the last straw that discouraged him so that he returned to his native country.
 
Btw, just for the record, I still don't know what the NFL hooplah is all about. I guess I'm too jaded by with how ridiculous our news media has gotten in which they say too little unless it's intentionally trying to rile us up for ratings or tell us what to think about it (cherry picking what they report to make that happen). Trump has only made it even easier for them to do that. I don't just mean sites like Brietbart, either. Reading this thread makes me want to take another crack at trying to understand what the NFL did, but I find myself too disgusted with the media and their methods for me to do so just yet.

Now if the BBC were to report on it then please let me know. Wait, they DID! Oh yeah, that's the stuff.

Gonna have to completely disagree with that specific marine. That's not disrespect to the national anthem (disrupting it or the crowd, singing it wrong, singing it badly, etc), this is a protest against Trump's words and in solidarity with Colin Kaepernick. Trump has said much worse things, and if a marine fights so that people are fired when they don't stand during the anthem then they fought for a nation I don't want to live in anyway. (That aside, it's still very much a tempest in a teapot to me, though this thread is a good thing to come out about it.)
 
@thrasherpix great post. I definitely agree with you as far as what poverty does to an individual. How could there not be any consequences? I find it so strange that the majority of the people online that post various "opinions" about black and brown people, and poor people in general, have no idea what its like to be another race and or poor. Or both, for that matter, which makes the odds even worse for you. Hope is what's desperately needed, and that's why I'm glad you turned me on to Jaime Escalante. I've never heard of him at all until you brought him up, and the synopsis of what I've read is very inspiring, and very telling at the same time. Of course the school faculty tried to sabotage his efforts. I find that a general theme when dealing with people with authority. Whenever someone rises up and speaks truth to power, there's always interference, through intimidation, or death. There seems to be a deliberate interest in maintaining the status quo, and whoever calls out the hypocrisies and the lies, that's when things start to go south, and the powers that be either try to smother the light that you've sparked, or kill you, simply put. You're trying to tell me the government had nothing to do with the assassination of MLK? Funny, as soon as Martin Luther King started talking about "reparations" is when the smear campaigns kicked into overdrive. Why would a leader who only sought out true justice be labeled as "the most dangerous man in America" according to the FBI? That's why I have no problem believing that the powers at be didn't want Jaime Escalante to do what he was trying to do, which was to inspire hope. To wake up people from their slumber. When you truly believe you could amount to something in this life, then you'll act like it. You know? So when you know that the government is complicit in all of this horrible shit, right, why would you be proud of that? To be proud of America is to be proud of it's virtues as well as its sins, and believe me, America has a lot to atone for.
 
T
thrasherpix
It's nice to know my long posts get read sometimes. :-)
Living Dead Boy said:
Of course the school faculty tried to sabotage his efforts.
Click to expand...

I've long been cynical of the school system, though since then I've gotten a more complex view. (Now I feel a lot of sympathy for teachers as well as students.) I've learned quite a bit about school board politics and while it's too simple to say "the government" messes the schools up, it's not entirely wrong. Many who get on have ulterior purposes, and many also hope to use their time on the board to catapult themselves into greater politics (which means pandering to the public rather than acting with actual concern for the school, and sad truth is many in the public don't have values that support people like Jaime Escalante). Some are just shady trying to get unethical business arrangements through the school (that the taxpayers pay for), a few don't know what they're doing and acting more like clueless dilettantes (one I heard of was easily manipulated by the scum on the board, and her stupidity was mind boggling), and there are many with a political agenda that are contrary to a school's best interests, and this includes those who don't reveal their actual agendas until they're elected onto the school board.

This was particularly organized in Texas (it was also tried in California with limited success) because if they can control which textbooks are bought (and not bought) then the corporations that make textbooks will cater to them, and as it's cost effective to make the same ones (different ones can be made, but will be more expensive so most schools will skip it) and that means they get to push their propaganda upon kids even in other states since Texas has so many customers. I'm grudgingly impressed, as well as deeply disturbed, since many of those involved in this would probably give full support to a Republic of Gilead if they thought they could get it in one fell swoop (and that's the long story made short). It would make sense that a group like that would want to get rid of someone like Jaime Escalante as well.

In addition, there are state and federal agencies that manipulate through funding, and also have tricky ways to steal from the school budgets for corrupt purposes that they wouldn't dare openly vote for (libraries are also a favorite target for politicians to steal from). Some corporations find tricky laws to pass that SEEM like they're friendly to schools but are actually about taking from schools for the profit of the people who actually sponsored the bill. Naturally, people like that at best won't be supportive of Jaime Escalante, and many would see him as a possible threat (especially if they take a long term view which prefers a dumbed down population).

Living Dead Boy said:
You're trying to tell me the government had [I]nothing [/I]to do with the assassination of MLK?
Click to expand...

That would not be me. In case you haven't heard of it, I'm sure you'll want to see this:

COINTELPRO - Wikipedia

It didn't just focus on racial minorities, but they were a high priority, including MLK. I'm not going to say they were directly behind his assassination (we're a violent nation of obnoxious jerks and it doesn't take much to get us ready to shoot someone), but I won't dismiss the possibility either.

A silver lining at least was this lesson plan she came up with that turned out quite effective (though she warned only someone properly qualified and detached should be allowed to do something like this or it could do more harm than good):

Jane Elliott - Wikipedia

I'm not going to sort through all the interviews and such, but I recall when she did this on a room full of adults that one white person claimed "black people need to get over it, it shouldn't effect them" but himself got threatening towards her when she did that experiment, as he realized what it was actually like and felt somewhat traumatized by the experience.

And btw, going with my previous post, an interesting bit is that the academic performance of whichever eye color was being treated worse among schoolkids actually declined (that is to say how kids are treated, including on things like color, make a difference--and that was just being treated badly for a couple of days or so, not everyday!).

And how could I forget...this was not the only project of its kind, but perhaps the most infamous:

Tuskegee syphilis experiment - Wikipedia

More that might be of interest to you (warning, this stuff can easily upset people just learning about it):

Unwanted Sterilization and Eugenics Programs in the United States | No Más Bebés | Independent Lens | PBS



And that aside, people complaining about people kneeling during the national anthem have actually caused me to think about the issues being brought up, which wouldn't have happened had people not reacted as if this was a terrible misdeed...and I bet I'm not the only one.
 
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The practice of kneeling came about during the Obama administration when one player refused to stand for the national anthem and one of his white teammates who was a veteran advised him to kneel on one knee as is the practice of veterans at the grave of a fallen comrade. The blacks who have been shot by police for no reason are his fallen comrades and until the police have to answer for their crimes, this practice should continue. The fact that they are rich has nothing to do with it - rich blacks are targeted by police as well as poor.

BTW don't think you can avoid police brutality if you are black and come to Canada - we are just as bad.
 
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