A terrible choice

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A cousin of mine was recently given the very sad news that she was dying of an agressive form of cancer.

It is terminal.

She was told her options.

Option 1 - Die in 6 months. Stay relatively strong until about the last month of her life where she will begin to deteriorate.

Option 2 - Take treatment that will give her an extra 6 - 12 months of life BUT as the cancer is agressive so must the treatment, which will make her feel extremely ill and make her last 12 - 18 months painful HOWEVER she will be alive.



Now, the family discussed the options, and my cousin has decided to do the 5 months of comfort and one month of illness.

My family obviously want the second option because they have this false hope that in that time a 'cure' might be developed (its a natural process) but I can't help but agree with my cousin and believe in the same situation, I would opt for the same.

My question is, with these two decidely bad options, which would you:

a) choose for yourself
b) choose for a loved one
 
I just discussed this with Mr. Bear, and we both agree that: a) it's the choice of the person who is dying; b) we will die on the day that we are meant to die regardless of medicine; and c) we'd both go with choice A. Because why drag it out? It's selfishness to want someone to go through a treatment that will make him/her feel lousy just so you can have him/her for a few extra months.
 
I have two things to say here- 1, that I'm very sorry for your cousin and 2, this is a very loaded question.

But I have to say that I agree with your cousin. If it were me in that situation I would rather have the shorter time that I could fully enjoy with my family and friends rather than the extended time in which I would most likely be too ill and sick all the time to even appreciate it. And in a semi-selfish way I'd rather have more memories of me relatively healthy than as the deterioating woman who just kept going for a painfully long time.

But as for a loved one that's hard. I would never be able to decide myself because I'd be conflicted between choosing comfort for the loved one and having them around for longer. So in all honesty, I would let that person make their choice and be perfectly happy- well as happy as one can be in this situation- with their decision. But if the loved one were unable to make the decision for themselves, if for example they were a - I really don't know what I'd do. And to be perfectly honest I don't even like to think about it. But I suppose, hypothetically, it would be the same decision as I chose for myself. Hypothetically. Put it into actual practice and I have no idea how I would react.
 
E
Edmund Blackadder
The best questions are the loaded ones
Washburne
Washburne
Can´t do anything but agree. So Al, , a) for me too.
Airam
Airam
Exactly everything I would have said.
This really makes me sad to read Alister... My gramps died of cancer himself, and it was terrible.

For myself... I don't know... I would probaly stay alive as long as possible, and hope to see miracles, and my family as long as possible.

But for a loved one, I wouldn't wish a long time of illness just to stay alive. I'd want my loved one to take the five months, and then give him/her the best months possible. Loan money, and ask him/her where he/she always wanted to go, but never got to. And give them the trip.

I'm so sorry.... Gosh I am sitting and crying... damn you Alister.... :'(
 
E
Edmund Blackadder
I am sorry you are crying BUT in fairness this is a thread about a terrible choice my family is currently dealing with - I will send you an e-Hug though
F
Fake Shemp
right there with ya, crying depressed now wise
Airam
Airam
thats a beautiful thing you'd do for your loved one :)
Interesting topic, and I'm fairly confident that you know me by now to know that I won't sugar coat anything, nor will I tell you how sorry I am or ask you to tell your cousin theres a person out there thinking of them, blah blah. Because at the end of the day, its all a pile of tosh, and it won't change a goddamn thing. Your cousin will still have terminal cancer, and will still be dying.

I've known quite a few people(some very dear to me) to have been diagnosed with cancer. Some of them died because of it, some of them did not.

I have read articles where doctors misdiagnosed patients, told them thier disease was terminal, they had so long to live, etc, and like I said the dcotors made an incorrect diagnosis.

Anyway, I'd like to mull over this topic, give it some thought, and I'll get back to ya in a short while to answer the questions you asked.
 
E
Edmund Blackadder
And you know me by now to know I don't care for false sympathy - this is just something I find an interesting topic based on personal experience. Looking forward to your thought out response though
They tried to treat my nanna when she had multiple forms of cancer and sorry to sound a cold hearted bitca but i didnt want them to, it did her no good, and made her worse going through treatment. She had been ill for a long time before we found out, but we had never imagined it was cancer. So by the time they did find out and tell us, at christmas i may add, (27th Dec) it was too late and I couldnt understand them spending time and money trying to treat her when it was so far gone.
 
I would opt to die within 6months and not feel as bad. My grandmother had cancer and she thought it and it was heartbreaking watching her die over around 2 years.
 
Option 1, I think, but it was a hard choice.
As I've come to realise, watching a friend or loved one slowly die over an extended period of time isn't easy for any one. If that person wants the quality of life option, a less painful life; personally I'd go for it.
With option 2, hoping for a cure in that time frame isn't realistic. Even if an absolute cure is found tomorrow, it'll be five years before it's allowed to be sold, and there's no guarantee that your cousin would be part of the trials probably because of the treatment.
How-ever with option 1, your cousin would be much more of a likely candidate for any new trials, no conflicting treatments and all that.
 
I would go for option A.

My reasons walk the line of being selfish, doing what I want to do, and trying to do what's best for my family.

Personally, I would never ever want to go through a year or two of painful misery knowing I am wasting away but alive. To me that existence isn't worth staying alive for. I have watched family members be withered away by cancer. Most of us have been touched by this disease I don't need to expand on how harrowing it is to be the spectator in this situation. For that reason alone I would do everything in my power to make my families time in limbo as short as possible, and lets face that's what it is. I don't want my family and friends last memories of me to be marred by months of sorrow and pain.

Selfishly I don't want to go through the hurt either. If is was two years for recovery, fine, but not two years to die.

My biggest fear is losing myself, who I am as a person. That is the scariest thing in the world to me. A prolonged illness would mean I would eventually lose that, my sense of self. That is totally unacceptable to me.

Also I know I would become bitter and angry by the whole sorry experiece. I don't want to die that way, I want to be happy for what I had. I want to enjoy the last few months and know I had the freedom to what I wanted with them.

Carpe Diem I say. No matter how awful the choice.
 
Option 1, I think, but it was a hard choice.
As I've come to realise, watching a friend or loved one slowly die over an extended period of time isn't easy for any one. If that person wants the quality of life option, a less painful life; personally I'd go for it.
With option 2, hoping for a cure in that time frame isn't realistic. Even if an absolute cure is found tomorrow, it'll be five years before it's allowed to be sold, and there's no guarantee that your cousin would be part of the trials probably because of the treatment.
How-ever with option 1, your cousin would be much more of a likely candidate for any new trials, no conflicting treatments and all that.

Just so we're clear, we're not discussing my cousins choice, which I 100% support, we're discussing the choice we'd make for ourselves and loved ones.

As per the family hoping for a cure, that is one of the stages of grief and not a realistic hope.
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Edit:
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Ohh and I want to thank the person who thought that this was a reasonable comment to make

As for your family member, they're dead anyway, I fail to see what your thread will do

I'm not going to say who it was, but IF you believe this, make the comment in the open thread and not privately.

This is NOT a discussion about my cousin, this is about what we would do in the situations - which pretty much everyone else has done.
 
B
Blondie Bear
Geez. What a jerk.
For me me me me. I'd choose Option 1, I'd want to die not dying, if that makes sense. Going through 6 - 12 months pain, to then die, it seems alittle intense, emotionally, mentally, physically. I'd hate to see my family circled around me for that long, just...waiting.

But, for a loved one..it's their decision, I wouldn't want to push my opinion on someone else..It's their life. Nobody asked to be here, alive, but we are, and we just need to keep on going 'til it ends, abruptly, or not.
 
Personally I would opt for A. At the end of the day, my body, my choice.

Also, I don't mean to be blunt, but once you know it's going to happen, I figure it's better it happens quickly. I haven't had anyone close to me have any kind of long/terminal illness, so I can only speak from my own position, however, I have watched my husband's grandmother have a long battle with pancreatic cancer, over 4 years. The worst thing from my mother-in-law's perspective was the ever increasing number of close calls, followed by being pumped full of medicine only for her to gain a few more painful weeks. I remember one family member saying 'well she could go on for another year like this' and my mother in law saying 'but should she?' Seeing her the day before she died was quite an eye opener, and I said if my husband felt ok with it he probably should remember her as she was, rather than visiting her.

I don't think I would want my family to remember me as weak and frail, especially my 2 small children. It's a very difficult decision, but ultimately it lies with your cousin, and all you can do is support what they want and make the best use of the time you have. Which sounds a bit of a platitude, but I'm sure you are all doing that already.
 
I'm very sorry for your cousin.

a) Option 2, I'm too afraid of dead.
b) Option 1, I don't wanna see my love in pain.
 
I would go for A. Without any hesitation. I'd rather want an easy death than suffering (for both me and my loved ones) Even if I were scared to die, I'd just want to get it over with. Also, think of the time and effort those doctors put in you, while your dying anyway. I guess they could help a lot of people that can actually be helped in that time.
It is, like evrything concerning life and death (I'm thinking abortion, euthanasia) not about what other people want, but about the person it concerns. If the family and friends really love him/her they have to accept their choice no matter what. If they try to persuade him/her to do something else (something they prefer) it is just downr ight selfish. They are going to have to deal with the death of a loved one anyway, and (at least, to me) then it's nice to know that his/hers last months/weeks/days were like he/she wanted it. And to me, it would be horrible to know that someone I loved suffered for months only because his/her family wanted to have him/her around a little longer.

Oh, and I wish you and your family all the best the coming months. If I had a candle, I would burn it for you guys.
 
I'd want to know exactly how painful the treatment would be, so maybe I would try it out and if it was too much for me, I'd stop.
 
I'm going to preface my answers to the topics sole purpose, with some points I wish to make, and to try get some perspective.

First of all:

As for your family member, they're dead anyway, I fail to see what your thread will do

I take great offense at this, I will explain precisely why in a minute. I would just like to clarify though, that it was not I that said this. Clarify, because I know that some members will assume that it was I that said this. (I don't know who did say it, but obv BotD knows, and he can confirm that it was not I)

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe not one single member read that and assumed I was the 'culprit', I doubt it though. I've pretty much gotten it my whole life. Accusations bordering on me being no less than the devil himself. Truth be told, I actually now find it cute, it bothered me when I was a teenager, but now mostly I find it endearing. Which brings me back to my offense at the comment. I'm not bothered if people assumed I said it, that isn't the reason I've brought this up. I am offending that there is a BB member out there that thinks they are a bigger a-hole than me. I'm the resident king, baby. Don't know who you are, but you want my crown, you will have to try a LOT better than that.

Also, if this thread is pointless, because Als cuz is a gonner no matter what, then everything is essentially pointless, because we is all gonners. We is all terminal. That's the big juicy prize you get for living a life. You get to die. Enjoy it, it only happens once.

Secondly, the primary purpose of my previous post was an attempt to "bully" people into not posting sentimental drivel. To, as much as possible, remove emotion from the thought process. I knew my answers to the questions within seconds of reading them, because I have considered them before. The whole wanting to give it some thought, was actually my get-out for not posting my opinion there and then, because:

A) I wanted more opinions posted first
and
B) I've had a stressfull week, I wanted to wind down with some mindless trash, which encompassed playing time waster flash games.

A quick little aside about opinions. Contrary to the popular facet of a faux-liberal ideology propagated by disingenuous ass lickers. Not all opinions should be respected. Some should be downright ridiculed, and some should just be completely ignored. If your opinion is not well thought out and expressed in an articulate and intelligent manner, why should, or would you expect anyone to give it any thought, if you haven't.

Oh aye, if you think this post is verbose, congrats, you now the definition of a word beginning with the letter V.

One of the reasons I have given this topic some thought prior to now is that, simply as I previously mentioned, I've known people that have been afflicted by cancer.

One such person was my oldest sister. I tend to be very harsh about her, she's a condescending so-and-so, etc etc. One thing I cannot deny about her, nor would I belittle, is that she is one strong lady. She was diagnosed with cancer about 5 years ago. She went through the chemo', all the varying treatments etc. She struggled though, some days she was in so much pain. To her, the most important thing was to remain positive. To believe she could beat it. And I know the thought of her two kids losing her mother at a young age too must have helped her greatly. Anyway, the treatment worked. She 'beat' the cancer. It came back. She had to go through the whole thing again. She whupped its ass second time around too. Then some time after she was diagnosed with Lupus. lol Talk about a losing streak. It was actually a misdiagnosis. I'm a terrible brother, I forget what was actually up with her the third time, but initially they thought it was lupus,a nd it turned out to be something minor.

Now, talk about ironic, about half an hour after posting in this topic, I recievced a phone call from my father. My mother was taking a break in the US, and she fell ill, with pleurisy. She went through some tests, had a scan, and the docs spotted two abnormalities in one of her lungs. It's not confirmed, but it looks like there's a strong possibility she has lung cancer. (by the way, unlike BOTD, I am looking for sympathy. sympathetic karma will not really be appreciated, but will be expected)

Yes there was a violin playing as you read that last paragraph.

Anyway, on to the questions. I dislike the absolutist frame that the questions are set in, but I understand the necessity of that for the topic. I would say though that I have almost no information to go on, as the topic has nothing to do with what I am about to say. I've no idea of the economic position of your cousin or her family, but if this hasn't been done I would seek the advice, and be tested by, several specialists, instead of the opinion of one doctor. As I've already mentioned, doctor's make mistakes, they are human, they aren't infallible, that's not a criticism of doctors, its just the truth.

I think your cousins age is also an important factor, and:

I'd want to know exactly how painful the treatment would be, so maybe I would try it out and if it was too much for me, I'd stop.

This is sound advice.

My answers, will be typed and posted in a minute or two. I need to stretch my legs for ten minutes, sitting in front of this computer is hurting my back.
 
E
Edmund Blackadder
I can absolutely swear that it wasn't you and I hope anyone who may have even entertained that though actually ead what Schillaci says. He might be a bit miserly sometime but in issues like this I have only ever seen him be respectful
I
itsxpaperdoll
I'm so sorry but I can't help but saying: It's NEVER lupus ;) Anyway, good luck with your mum and you made your point very clear (and I mean that in the most positive way possible)
I will clarify one thing, we're on our 6th opinion and all the answers are the same.

The standard of life for my cousin would deteriorate rapidly over the next 4 months if she took the therapy and then would stay in a rather pained and depressed phase.

ALL pros and cons have been weighed and the decision after much heartbreak was made.

This has not been an easy choice but I fully understand and respect what my cousin has decided.
 
This is terrible but, i'd rather die as a free woman than live as a bound one


it kinda metaphor-y but i think you get the general idea
 
Eeek I don't know If I'd be as brave as All of you who would choose the first option, I hope I never have to make that choice.

Since I'm not in that situation or frame of mind, *knocks on wood* I don't know for sure.
 
I don't know which i would pick. My mother died from cancer. We were given less than a year, Maybe longer if she had treatment. It's strange but it never felt like she was sick till she had the treatment. She was the same woman, leading the same life. When she had the treatment, suddenly she was weak and in bed all the time. Not able to do anything for herself.
But I loved that she was brave enough to make the choice to have chemo, it was a struggle, but she did it for herself and us. She wanted to go out with a fight. And i respected that so much.
I think both choices are brave, and that's what's important . It's a tough choice to make, and you're cousin shows a lot of strength in making a choice. I seen it happen, and i still don't know what i would choose.I wish you and you're family all the best. It's hard, but try not to see the illness, just the person. You're memories of her, will be better for it.
 
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