Abortion

[eponinethen]

Pro choice, definetly..! I don't meen that you shouldn't try to give give birth to your child instead of having an abortion.. But sometimes that's not an option.. A close friend of mine had an abortion about a year and a half ago, she was 15 and I think that was the right decision.. (Although I'm not the one to judge if that's the right thing to do, it was her choice and I would have supported her either way, of course.. Just saying, it's the girl/woman's choice if she wants to bea mother or not..)

 

[*Maria*]

Ok sorry I'm comeing in late. But I have to Agree with The Slayer, she said:

I'm pro-life, except in special circumstances.

And I do believe that an unborn child or fetus has the right to live.

Yeah, I'm a religious person, but it doesn't come to to religion for this issue to me. It comes down to life and the right to it.

Though I think this would not be an issue (except in instances of rape and such) if we could promote use of protection. People wouldn't have to complain about having to bear a child if they would simply use a condom or go on birth control. Its easy.

She Also Said:

You can argue that anything is stopping life. I mean really, anything!

But condoms are a mode of not stopping, but preventing. I doubt that anyone would think condoms are foul just because they prevent life. Theres a difference between preventing life and bluntly destroying it.

And condoms stop the egg from being fertilized, which in my opinion, is when life begins! Why should someone automatically be judged as "born" when they come out of the womb? That makes no sense, since they have been techinically "born" for roughly 9 months?

Also SpikedBuffy said:

Pro Life.

Life=good

All the thoughts of "It's my body" wouldn't have been brought to without one's LIFE.

I have to Total agree with you guys.
But I have to bring up what Buffy Summers said:

Pro choice for me as well. It should be every person's decision whether to have a child or not. We live in a world that wants to condemn abortions, yet stigmatizes unmarried mothers. We also live in an incredibly overpopulated world, and a world of extremely screwed up kids (who becoming screwed up adults). What kind of life is there for a child whose parents do not want them? But regardless of this...it should be your own decision. There shouldn't be someone who doesn't even know me dictating whether I have to ruin my life or not.

It's funny, when I was in high school, there was a guy friend of mine who was pro life. And I said, "Well then if you got your girlfriend pregnant would you marry her?" And he said "No I would dump her." Ironically several years later he did get his girlfriend pregnant and did marry her. Go figure. lol

I can't really agree with you.

. First off we live in an incredibly overpopulated world. Yes this is true but one of the reasons this is so (not the only) is it's now ok to have sex with more then one person and that you can have sex before Marriage. I know this is sounding old Fashioned but if we can now have sex with more then one person and it's not looked down on. We tend to have more unwanted babies. Mainly because of the pro-life people cuz they don't abort. Ok I want you guys to know that I have nothing wrong with sex before Marriage. Also we live in a world that wants to condemn abortions, yet stigmatizes unmarried mothers. Witch is true. But I think if she made the choice to have sex and became pageant she should have to keep the child. If you don't want to keep the child then give it up for adoption. World of extremely screwed up kids (who becoming screwed up adults). Witch is true to but why is this true?

I have a friend who has been raped and I think that I would be ok to abort you child then. Now she did not become pageant so this issue was not brought up.
So that's what I think...

 

[Buffy Summers]

I think you make some good arguments but I think its unrealistic to expect people to wait for marriage in this day and age. It was fine when everyone was married at 14 or 18, but what if someone never gets married? Should they never have sex? lol there are biological drives lol

Ever notice how people only expect women to wait until marriage?

 

[*Maria*]

I'm not expecting people to wait till marriage. I know it's not Realistic for that to happen. But I think it shouldn't be you want to have sex so you do. I think you should love the person. Yes you may bark up with them later. But mainly if you care for who you're with you will not want to get read of the baby as much if not at all. But the thing that brothers me is one night stands or first few dates sex. I think if you are going to have sex no one can stop you. But at lest wait till you know the person really well. Witch I'm not saying don't have sex but if you do you should not be able to get read of the baby just cuz. I think you need a really good reason. Cuz now that you can get read of the baby. The age people start having sex gets younger and younger. I mean some people start at 11. That is way too young. So you can end up pregnant then kill the baby no harm done parents won't know. But that's not right at all.
And yes people seem to not really mind if guys have sex before marriage Whys that??

 

[mire]

well i'm definitly pro-choise.
my oppinions on this subject are basecly what's been told already, it should be a women's choice. the country wher i live has lost of kids waiting for addoption, and although some people consider the hypotesis of "not wanting to have a baby = leaving the for abortion" but theres alwyas tons of kids that are abandon by year taht problably won't ever will have a family, or worse, here we have an increasing number of babys with only weeks taht are leaved abadoned in the garbage dumps or just left bahnd to die. are all these things better that an abortion? and people forget that not all people are 'parent material' or simply don't wanna have kids, or even don't have the money to raize a child properly.in my personal oppinion leaving a kid to a missrable, unhappy and sometimes even loveless childhood is worst that to abort.
and now speaking of one coutry where abortions is illegal (except for rape and malformation cases) it's just not a matter of wheter is it done or not..coz its alraedy done, just without any safety or healty conditions.
i'm just making clear taht i'm not in favor of abortion (coz some people tends to confuse that) i'm just in favor of giving womens some choise and safe conditions of doing it.
and just to make clear for again, some people tends to think taht abortion shouldt be allowed coz it would be eventually a acontraception method...sorry but this is just a stupid! i can't believe any women taht makes an abortions does it with a simple desision like she was buying a shirt or something. this is a very serious thing and noone except the people that are desperate enougth to do it can judge it.

 

[SpikedBuffy]

It's not just a stance on your personal view of when life is actually life...

it's also deals with your moral standards as well, and everybody differs.

I guess that I just see that a sign of every living thing is cells... and that's what a fetus is. A complex webbing of cells that has the power to differentiate into all the organs,systems, bones, etc. If a fetus can kick, move, and grow, isn't that considered alive? And the child begins growing from point A: conception

And with the whole condom conversation. Why would we outlaw them? If they were actually enforced, then there would be no conversation about abortions. It's called: responsibility.

 

[ProphecyGirl]

And with the whole condom conversation. Why would we outlaw them? If they were actually enforced, then there would be no conversation about abortions. It's called: responsibility.

As Rachel poiinted out

Rachel: yeah well Ross condoms aren't 100%"

Ross: What?!? they should print that on the box!

Rachel: They do.



(yes I thought this was a perfect time to quote an episode of friends, that show taught us sooooo much :hihi: )

. First off we live in an incredibly overpopulated world. Yes this is true but one of the reasons this is so (not the only) is it's now ok to have sex with more then one person and that you can have sex before Marriage. I know this is sounding old Fashioned but if we can now have sex with more then one person and it's not looked down on. We tend to have more unwanted babies. Mainly because of the pro-life people cuz they don't abort. Ok I want you guys to know that I have nothing wrong with sex before Marriage. Also we live in a world that wants to condemn abortions, yet stigmatizes unmarried mothers. Witch is true. But I think if she made the choice to have sex and became pageant she should have to keep the child. If you don't want to keep the child then give it up for adoption. World of extremely screwed up kids (who becoming screwed up adults). Witch is true to but why is this true?

I have a friend who has been raped and I think that I would be ok to abort you child then. Now she did not become pageant so this issue was not brought up.
So that's what I think...

I am going to have to be a bit more controversial and say that I don't believe that abortion is just okay in cases of rape. If I go out and have a one night stand and then become pregnant I feel I have just as much right as a rape victim. Both pregnancies are unwanted. Some people really don't have the means to take care of a child and anyone who brings up adoption really has no clue about how the adoption system is completely over run with unwanted children. Many of the children from mothers who kept their children a few years and then abandoned them and now the child has to grow up in the system until they are 18 and promptly booted out and sent on their way.

In America there are many, many, many people who want to adopt children...strike that...babies.....strike that....Caucassian babies. What of African-American babies? What of Hispanic babies? What of 7 year olds? There's rarely a want for an African-American child, etc. And yet we're supposed to tell a woman to go through the troubles of pregncy, pay for an expensive birth, take time off from work, and possibly loose your job just to put your baby up for unwated adoption so that it can grow up in the system? preposterous.

Also ,yes , there are SO many bad mothers and fathers having children nowadays and not just screwing them up--no. Has no one heard of Andrea Yates? Susan Smith? Derrick Lee? and countless others. Bad mothers and fathers are killing their children even more than ever. But hey yeah I guess it's better to have the child and then kill it after it's born than to abort it before.

 

[Willow Rosenberg]

I completely agree with you PG...Why would you want someone to bring a child into the world who doesn't even want it? And it is true about what you said regarding Caucasian babies vs. the babies of other racesand/or older children especially in this country.

Plus you hear those cases about women giving birth and then throwing the newborns in dumpsters and such. I know there was a case in NJ when I was in High School where the girl had her baby at the prom and threw it in the trash. All of that could have been avoided, and the situation could have been remedied before it got that far.

I'm a total believer in educating kids about sex and condoms and other forms of birth control. Many parents don't want that being taught to their kids, but these are the parents who will probably condemn their kids should they get caught in a situation where they become or get someone else pregnant. My parents were always very open, honest and accepting in raising me and my sister which is why my sister had no problem going to them for help when at 19 she realized she was pregnant. She considered abortion at one point, but she realized she couldn't, but she had the choice and we were all going to support her either way.

 

[Willow Rosenberg]

I have already posted about this on another board so I will cheat and copy and paste what I put -

I can speak from experience in this subject as I had a termination at the age of 14. I don't have to explain how or why it happened but the decision to terminate the pregnancy was not mine to make, it was taken out of my hands by my parent and my doctor who both decided that I was too young to have a baby. Through most of the experience I was shell shocked and not even aware of what was actually going on. It wasn't until I had my first son, that it all sort of hit me and although I don't actually regret what happened, I have never forgotten about it. Going through all that has made the person I am today, and made me apprecaite my kids to the fullest.

I have never felt guilty about what happened, we are all human and mistakes or circumstances out of our control will happen, that is life.

It's something that it is very easy to judge and make comment on but unless you have been there, in that position you can never truly know how you are going to handle it. Most times I choose not to comment on abortion threads as I do feel very strongly about the subject and I am in favour of women having the right to choose, if they are ever put in that situation.

Personally now, I could never even consider having an abortion unless the feotus was severly damaged in some way, resulting in a poor quality of life, plus already having children it would not be fair to them, as in reality they would receive far less time and attention if we were to have a child with extreme mental or physical disabilties. I do not think that would be fair to anyone.

Nothing is ever black and white, especially abortion.

Oh, and for those newer members who don't know me, I am now 33 yrs old, married and have 5 wonderful kids

 

[eponinethen]

And the feministic view (one of them).. If you get pregnant, the guy can always be irresponsible and say that he wants nothing to do with the baby. He can deny that he's even the father.. That's not a choice if you're the person with a growing baby inside you. (Sure, you can give the baby away for adoption, but you still have to carry and give birth to a child, and then it's not that easy to give it away.) Why is the woman going to be forced into being a parent if the guy isn't..?

 

[Beer_Nut]

I am largely pro-choice, but I think that it should be a last resort. There are people out there that use abortion as a method of birth control ("Whoops, pregnant again... better go have another abortion"). I think that every other precaution should be used before abortion. Too many people refuse to take responsibility for their actions. On the same note it really drives me up the wall when people that should have had abortions don't (ie. "I'm too busy buying crack too feed my baby, but I really wanted it"). In the end though I am pro-choice, but only in circumstances where it is necessary.

 

[Faith]

I am going to have to be a bit more controversial and say that I don't believe that abortion is just okay in cases of rape.

I nearly wrote a very different post to the one I have now, I misread your post and thought you said that you don't believe its ok to have an abortion in the case of rape. Which nearly set me off on one due to my opinions. And the point of this is that read each post carefully before replying. This is a sensitive subject and people will get heated.

I feel that this is one of those decisions that you cannot really make until you are in the particular situation before you can make a decision. Its one thing saying what you will do should it happen to you, and its clearly another when you are in it. As then you are emotionally and mentally involved.

In the cases of rape and one night stands I can completely understand and agree why woman will abort. How ever wonderful a child is, you will forever be reminded of the way it was brought into this world. And although I believe in nurture over nature, you have no idea what the father was like and what traits may have been passed onto the child. Saying that my cousin had a child that was a product of a one night stand and he is a great kid and they have a wonderful relationship together. But it was her decision to make. She took on board all the information made available to her and she made her choice. This is why I believe that its all down to the individual.

Having grown up with foster care kids, and spent 4 years in law seeing the kind of things that happen to unwanted children it makes me ill. The way they are treated by their parents, the resentment that arises because the parents feel that they have 'ruined' their lives. Now while that is not my opinion I have seen through my own eyes what happens when someone has a child they did not want.

We were always taught that the welfare of the child was paramount (of the utmost importance), now the argument it seems is, if you are unfit to cope with a child, should you have it and give it a life where it does not recieve the relevant amount of care. The childcare system is bursting to the seams with children born in the above situations, and as it is understaffed and volunteers for foster care are dropping they are not recieving the care they should. They feel that they are not wanted, a feeling they grew up with from either being told by the parent or by actions of that parent. I have seen to many cases where children have turned to crime as a way of dealing with this and in extreme cases have actually murdered their parents in the final act of coming to terms with the way they have been treated.

Now as part of my Social Work studies I have been subjected to undercover videos of children in homes because they are not wanted and not cared for and I can tell you that they are very disturbing. Their attitude towards society is filled with pure hate. They were not treated with respect and deceny with those who were meant to be family, so why should they treat others with it?

While some of you think that I have gone off on a tangent and that this isn't related, I disagree. Abortion is not an easy decision, there are so many factors that have to be taken into consideration for both the parent and the child. However for evey bad case there is some good, again back to my earlier point this is down to the individual.

I can honestly say, and take of it what you will. That if I fell pregnant this moment, I cannot truthfully say that I would not abort. I am neither emotionally or financially secure to have a child. But should I ever be in that position I would look at everything such as would I be able to provide adequate care for the child and nurture it to the best of my abilities. And discuss it with my mother who has made it clear that whatever I decide she will support and help as much as she can. But back to my point above again, being in the actual situation itself, I may indeed keep the child Sex comes with consequences, you know this when you do it. Pre-cautions are not 100% accurate.

Like mentioned previously in this thread, I think that more education is required in schools to inform people of what they can be facing when having sex and being pregnant, as the numbers of teen mothers are continuing to rise.

There are other options such as adoptions where you could carry the child to full term and put it up for adoption to have it cared for by a family that will provide the relevant care and love it, but who are unable to have children on their own.

 

[ProphecyGirl]

There are people out there that use abortion as a method of birth control ("Whoops, pregnant again... better go have another abortion").

I know you're pro-choice but I get so amazingly annoyed when people say this. Who ARE these people? These women who are so blase' about abortions? I dont discount that it's a possibility but a very rare one. In every abortion deabte people seem to write statements such as this almost alluding to this being an epidemic among women. I really disbelieve there are many "whoops time to get another abortion" women out there.

 

[eponinethen]

I know you're pro-choice but I get so amazingly annoyed when people say this. Who ARE these people? These women who are so blase' about abortions? I dont discount that it's a possibility but a very rare one. In every abortion deabte people seem to write statements such as this almost alluding to this being an epidemic among women. I really disbelieve there are many "whoops time to get another abortion" women out there.

Yeah, like the problem with abortion is that some people use it as birth control.. I meen sure, they exist, but they're very few. Most people don't think that abortion is a great experience.. And they wouldn't want to do that unless it's really necessary..

 

[Willow Rosenberg]

I would imagine it to be the more well-to-do women rather than the poor who become these so called "abortion junkies". I know its kind of another issue all together but the poor (especially in America) have a tendancy to use their kids as means of receiving more government aid through welfare programs. These people not only royally piss me off, but I think they should be neutered 😀

 

[Faith]

There was actually a case in the states where the court produced an order for a woman to get steralized to stop her having anymore kids. For the above reason, to get more grants and the fact that later down the line all of them ended up in care of the government.

 

[Jill_Valentine]

The old abortion-as-birth-control arguement doesn't wash. Without wanting to get too visceral, I'd like people who run with that arguement to imagine the actual physical process of an abortion. Now tell me, is that an experience somebody would want to repeat unless they felt it was justified?

 

[elmo]

I'm pro-choice because I don't believe a 13 year old girl should be forced to bring a child into the world, either to give it up or to bring it up. Yes, it's stupid of her not to be careful but we all make mistakes. I, myself, would have an abortion only if I wasn't financially or emotionally stable to look after the child to my best ability. I want the best for my children, and only at the right time can I give that to them. I also believe that some people should just not be allowed to have children (but that's different).

I don't mean to offend anyone with this post by the way. I'm just giving my 2 cents. You don't have to agree with me but I have my reasons.

 

[Buffy Summers]

The old abortion-as-birth-control arguement doesn't wash. Without wanting to get too visceral, I'd like people who run with that arguement to imagine the actual physical process of an abortion. Now tell me, is that an experience somebody would want to repeat unless they felt it was justified?

I wanted to agree with Jill here - though not having had the procedure done myself, one of my best friends did and she was very afraid to tell me about it because I am Catholic and she didn't know how I would feel. And as Jill said it was not a pleasant experience. Physically or Emotionally. Imagine thinking someone would not be your friend anymore because you had an abortion. I know that she would not take having to do it again lightly.

I also had a friend who became pregnant in high school and went "away" had the baby, gave her up for adoption, and then came back. Also extremely hard physcially and emotionally. And everytime she has been mentioned since, the first thing people say is "that girl who got pregant".

It is not easy either way with unwanted pregancies, which is why it really needs to come down to the person to decide what is best for them. Kudos to the person who mentioned the danger of illegal abortions - this is something people die from.

 

[Lethe]

With all honesty, I don't think anyone should have the right to say what is "right" or "wrong" for a woman to do in this type of situation, until they get impregnated in middle school, have their friends desert them, have their entire school call them a slut with rumors flying 50 miles per hour, being so completelty damn lonely (and I have never sworn on this board) that you can't take it....Just don't talk like you think you know what's right until you literally go through something like that. And I know guys could never, and pardon my sexism, I don't think men should ever tell a woman what to do with her body.

I know I shouldn't post on this sorta thing, because this is the type of thread where I'd get sooo fired, so riled, that...I could say things I might regret.

In other words, I'm pro-choice.