Abortion

[arabella]

1. Ask any OB-GYN, and they will tell you there is almost never a circumstance in which the fetus endangers the life of the mother. Except in ectopic pregnancy, which is a pregnancy in the Fallopian tube. The fetus dies in the procedure, but it is not aborted. The is no way for it to survive no matter what. So the best thing a doctor can do is revitalize the tissue in the uterus.

Taking away a person's right to life is not good.

Abortion may be the convenient option for the mother, but it is in no way fair to the child. Why should the child have to suffer because of the poor decisions or unfortunate circumstances of the adults involved? It doesn't seem fair to me.

Almost never is not never. I would almost never choose to abort an embryo or fetus, however, I also have a "right to life" and if I happen to be that freak "almost never case" then I want my doctor, family, and I to be able to choose what is best for us. It breaks my heart to think of not being able to choose to live and be there for my son and daughter when they need me. In the extremely unlikely event that my future birth control fails, I get pregnant again, and something like that we're to occur I can't fathom anyone making me give up my life for that of my fetus. It wouldn't be easy to make that choice but I don't think that any non-medical professional should have any say in the matter.

I am certainly not pro-abortion anymore than I am pro-death penalty...but I do value my life and the lives of my already born family more than anything else. It could de-rail the thread but I often wonder I those who are pro-life are anti-war and anti-death penalty.

 

[EvilWillow]

Almost never is not never. I would almost never choose to abort an embryo or fetus, however, I also have a "right to life" and if I happen to be that freak "almost never case" then I want my doctor, family, and I to be able to choose what is best for us. It breaks my heart to think of not being able to choose to live and be there for my son and daughter when they need me. In the extremely unlikely event that my future birth control fails, I get pregnant again, and something like that we're to occur I can't fathom anyone making me give up my life for that of my fetus. It wouldn't be easy to make that choice but I don't think that any non-medical professional should have any say in the matter.

I am certainly not pro-abortion anymore than I am pro-death penalty...but I do value my life and the lives of my already born family more than anything else. It could de-rail the thread but I often wonder I those who are pro-life are anti-war and anti-death penalty.

I can't speak for you or anyone else, but I am most certainly willing to die so that I can give my child life. It would never even be a question in my eyes.

By the way, I am anti-war and anti-death penalty, not that this anything to do with the thread. I don't believe anyone has any right to decide who deserves life and who doesn't. That is something higher than we are.

 

[xfivebyfive]

I'm pro-choice. I dont think I could ever have one but I think its a womans choice if she doesnt want to have a baby. End of story.

And if you don't have a uterus you don't have an opinion.

 

[EvilWillow]

I'm pro-choice. I dont think I could ever have one but I think its a womans choice if she doesnt want to have a baby. End of story.

And if you don't have a uterus you don't have an opinion.

If she doesn't want a baby then she needs to be responsible enough to make sure it doesn't happen. It's certainly not the baby's fault that she didn't use a proper form of birth control. Seems pretty cruel to kill a child because the mother is inconvenienced. I totally agree about the uterus part.

I ask you pro-choicers, what is so terrible about adoption?

 

[arabella]

Birth control can fail so, while I do think many abortions could be avoided by better use of prevention it still would not be 100%.

And there is nothing wrong with giving up a child for adoption if that is what the bio-parents choose but having worked in the foster care system, way too many babies/children are already in the system. I wish everyone who could adopt would. We plan to adopt in a few years.

 

[EvilBuffy]

I don't want to join in on this, I just wanted to add a brief response to:

I ask you pro-choicers, what is so terrible about adoption?

Some people don't want to go through the pregnancy and labor. Just something to consider for that.

*tip-toes out of thread* 🙂

 

[xfivebyfive]

If she doesn't want a baby then she needs to be responsible enough to make sure it doesn't happen. It's certainly not the baby's fault that she didn't use a proper form of birth control. Seems pretty cruel to kill a child because the mother is inconvenienced. I totally agree about the uterus part.

I ask you pro-choicers, what is so terrible about adoption?

Its not a child. Its a fetus. It is her body. She doesn't want to give it over for nine months and then give the baby up then you she shouldn't have to. She should have the choice.

There is nothing wrong with adoption but do you know how many unwanted children there are already in the world? Or how many people who have kids and then horribly abuse them? Why should we force these women to have kids they don't want? The fetus cant think or feel and it doesnt know it exists, but an abandoned or abused child can wish it never did.

 

[PassionBecoming]

(Ok, have to ring in.)

Do you know how many couples in this country want to adopt, but can't afford to go through the process? Do you know how many hoops they have to jump through, money they have to spend, and how many heartbreaks they go through just to get a baby that some people will kill because they see it as an inconvenience? I know so many couple that have problems with infertility, and one very close friend that lost a baby her and her husband were trying to adopt. There are thousands upon thousands of couples looking to adopt, but the government makes it so hard.

I actually wrote a letter to all of my political representatives, from state to the president, asking why they think it's ok to spend money on/support/make available abortions, but they don't make adoptions more affordable? And why doesn't the government put money towards the birth of my children? Why do they support death and not life?

I believe abortion is 100% wrong in all cases. Period. Even in cases of rape - killing your baby does not make the fact that you were raped go away. It kills your baby. That baby is 50% you. I also don't believe that it's for any person to judge that a baby will be "too disabled" to live a good life. That's just saying that if a person doesn't meet a certain threshold of perfectness, they don't deserve to live. Who gets to draw that line?

As for not having an opinion if you don't have a uterus, I don't believe that's true, either. That baby is as much of the father's as it is the mother's, and the father should have a say in the matter, too.

And that's all I have to say about all that.

 

[EvilWillow]

Its not a child. Its a fetus. It is her body. She doesn't want to give it over for nine months and then give the baby up then you she shouldn't have to. She should have the choice.

There is nothing wrong with adoption but do you know how many unwanted children there are already in the world? Or how many people who have kids and then horribly abuse them? Why should we force these women to have kids they don't want? The fetus cant think or feel and it doesnt know it exists, but an abandoned or abused child can wish it never did.

Please, it has brain and heart function. Despite the lies you have been told, it really is a tiny human, not just tissue. It feels pain, its brain moderates most of its organ functions, except breathing, because the lungs and diaphragm cannot contract inside of amniotic fluid.

There are plenty of people out there that would love to have a child that can't. Instead of spending money to kill the children, why not make it easier to adopt and not charging people 10k+ to adopt a baby. That is selling them in my opinion. Let's make the system better before we resort to murdering the innocent.

---------- Post added at 08:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:10 PM ----------

I don't want to join in on this, I just wanted to add a brief response to:



Some people don't want to go through the pregnancy and labor. Just something to consider for that.

*tip-toes out of thread* 🙂

It has been considered, and it's a selfish reason.

 

[xfivebyfive]

(Ok, have to ring in.)

Do you know how many couples in this country want to adopt, but can't afford to go through the process? Do you know how many hoops they have to jump through, money they have to spend, and how many heartbreaks they go through just to get a baby that some people will kill because they see it as an inconvenience? I know so many couple that have problems with infertility, and one very close friend that lost a baby her and her husband were trying to adopt. There are thousands upon thousands of couples looking to adopt, but the government makes it so hard.

I actually wrote a letter to all of my political representatives, from state to the president, asking why they think it's ok to spend money on/support/make available abortions, but they don't make adoptions more affordable? And why doesn't the government put money towards the birth of my children? Why do they support death and not life?

I believe abortion is 100% wrong in all cases. Period. Even in cases of rape - killing your baby does not make the fact that you were raped go away. It kills your baby. That baby is 50% you. I also don't believe that it's for any person to judge that a baby will be "too disabled" to live a good life. That's just saying that if a person doesn't meet a certain threshold of perfectness, they don't deserve to live. Who gets to draw that line?

As for not having an opinion if you don't have a uterus, I don't believe that's true, either. That baby is as much of the father's as it is the mother's, and the father should have a say in the matter, too.

And that's all I have to say about all that.

Making adoption affordable has nothing to do with abortion. I'm all for that. I would love all the kids out there with no families to have families.

That doesn't mean if I dont want to have a child I should be forced to. No one should tell me what to do with my body. If someone is raped and impregnated why should they then have no control over their own body again! They had no choice in being raped and now they have no choice in whether they give birth?? Every woman should have the right to choose and shouldn't be judged for it. It's not your body, its not your decision. Make the decision for you own body and if you dont want to have one dont, but every woman should have the right to choose.

Yes the baby would be the fathers as well but he doesn't have to carry it for nine months. So no its not his decision.

But my point with that statement was not if youre in the situation but rather all the male politicians and male members of society that think they can pass laws on a womans body. So I 100% believe that if you do not have a uterus you dont get an opinion on this. A man will never have to face that situation so why should they get a say?

---------- Post added at 11:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:13 PM ----------

Please, it has brain and heart function. Despite the lies you have been told, it really is a tiny human, not just tissue. It feels pain, its brain moderates most of its organ functions, except breathing, because the lungs and diaphragm cannot contract inside of amniotic fluid.

There are plenty of people out there that would love to have a child that can't. Instead of spending money to kill the children, why not make it easier to adopt and not charging people 10k+ to adopt a baby. That is selling them in my opinion. Let's make the system better before we resort to murdering the innocent.

The lies I've been told? Please don't talk to me like I'm a fool.

I've seen a fetus. At several different stages and I dont mean in a text book. An actually fetus, in a jar. Yes its heartbreaking and yes they look like little humans but you know what even after seeing them it doesn't change my opinion that a tiny creature that has never lived or loved or thought should have more rights then woman carrying it. Women aren't just incubators!

It doesn't think and it doesn't know if it lives or dies. Its not murder.

 

[EvilWillow]

Making adoption affordable has nothing to do with abortion. I'm all for that. I would love all the kids out there with no families to have families.

That doesn't mean if I dont want to have a child I should be forced to. No one should tell me what to do with my body. If someone is raped and impregnated why should they then have no control over their own body again! They had no choice in being raped and now they have no choice in whether they give birth?? Every woman should have the right to choose and shouldn't be judged for it. It's not your body, its not your decision. Make the decision for you own body and if you dont want to have one dont, but every woman should have the right to choose.

Yes the baby would be the fathers as well but he doesn't have to carry it for nine months. So no its not his decision.

But my point with that statement was not if youre in the situation but rather all the male politicians and male members of society that think they can pass laws on a womans body. So I 100% believe that if you do not have a uterus you dont get an opinion on this. A man will never have to face that situation so why should they get a say?

And of course you avoided most of the points that I made in my argument. And you completely missed the entire point that I was trying to make about adoption.

The school age children that are in the care of the state or foster care are not children from mothers who gave their babies up for adoption from pregnancies. Those are children that have been seized due to child abuse, drugs, etc. The situation is unfortunate, and I can't say whether or not they'd be better off dead, because I have never died. The same can be said about unborn children.

The point I was trying to make about adoption is to make it easier on parents that do want to adopt a baby, so that women who don't want their unborn baby can rest assured that their baby will grow up loved and safe (if they even care).


I ask all of you to watch the entirety of this video, and then make your decision. Ignore the parts about Jesus, if you choose, because they really don't add to the powerful argument from this woman.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5YlJ9CZ9fI"]Gianna Jessen Abortion Survivor in Australia (full) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[xfivebyfive]

And of course you avoided most of the points that I made in my argument. And you completely missed the entire point that I was trying to make about adoption.

The school age children that are in the care of the state or foster care are not children from mothers who gave their babies up for adoption from pregnancies. Those are children that have been seized due to child abuse, drugs, etc. The situation is unfortunate, and I can't say whether or not they'd be better off dead, because I have never died. The same can be said about unborn children.

The point I was trying to make about adoption is to make it easier on parents that do want to adopt a baby, so that women who don't want their unborn baby can rest assured that their baby will grow up loved and safe (if they even care).

Not every woman wants to have a child and have to give it up. That is a huge decision. To know you have a child out there, for the rest of your life. To go through nine months with that baby inside you, suffer through the labor, and then give it up. Not everyone is strong enough to do that. And I know what youre going to say that theyre selfish, but who are you to judge them? You're not in that situation, youre not them. People are more willing to judge people then they are to try and understand.

 

[EvilWillow]

Not every woman wants to have a child and have to give it up. That is a huge decision. To know you have a child out there, for the rest of your life. To go through nine months with that baby inside you, suffer through the labor, and then give it up. Not everyone is strong enough to do that. And I know what youre going to say that theyre selfish, but who are you to judge them? You're not in that situation, youre not them. People are more willing to judge people then they are to try and understand.

As opposed to going through your life knowing that you had a child that you killed? That isn't really better in my eyes. Much worse.
Abortion does a lot psychologically to women than people think it does. It's also not healthy at all, and has been linked to reproductive cancer. It's not natural.

Even if I was pro-choice, I would never be able to justify it to an abortion survivor. Would you tell the woman in the video above that she was almost killed because it was "her mother's right"?

 

[arabella]

As opposed to going through your life knowing that you had a child that you killed? That isn't really better in my eyes. Much worse.
Abortion does a lot psychologically to women than people think it does. It's also not healthy at all, and has been linked to reproductive cancer. It's not natural.

Even if I was pro-choice, I would never be able to justify it to an abortion survivor. Would you tell the woman in the video above that she was almost killed because it was "her mother's right"?

I've personally known women who have had an abortion who are in no way psychologically traumatized and later went on to have a child.... And also don't have cancer. Also, your body can spontaneously abort the fetus if there is enough wrong with it leading to miscarriage or still birth, therefore I don't understand the "it's not natural" argument.

And I don't see anything wrong with sharing my view on abortion and women's rights with a person that was meant to be aborted but survived the procedure. Her story doesn't change my opinion about my body or my rights.

 

[xfivebyfive]

As opposed to going through your life knowing that you had a child that you killed? That isn't really better in my eyes. Much worse.
Abortion does a lot psychologically to women than people think it does. It's also not healthy at all, and has been linked to reproductive cancer. It's not natural.

Even if I was pro-choice, I would never be able to justify it to an abortion survivor. Would you tell the woman in the video above that she was almost killed because it was "her mother's right"?

Of course an abortion stays with a person, some more then others. Its not a decision I think should ever be taken likely but it was their choice.

The video is about a failed late term abortion which I do not support unless it is a medical choice between the life of the mother and the life of the baby.

 

[EvilWillow]

I've personally known women who have had an abortion who are in no way psychologically traumatized and later went on to have a child.... And also don't have cancer.

And I don't see anything wrong with sharing my view on abortion and women's rights with a person that was meant to be aborted but survived the procedure. Her story doesn't change my opinion about my body or my rights.

I think that's really sad. I have extreme compassion for her. I can't imagine what it would feel like to know that your mother tried to kill you.

 

[arabella]

I think that's really sad. I have extreme compassion for her. I can't imagine what it would feel like to know that your mother tried to kill you.

Having a differing opinion and lacking compassion for her are not the same thing. It would suck to know my mom didn't want me and I feel bad for her...the same way I feel bad for babies that are born addicted to crack because they got craptastic birth mothers. But I don't see how her circumstances should make me feel bad that I'd choose my life over that of an embryo or fetus... She was unwanted and that is terrible that she has to live her life knowing that.

 

[EvilWillow]

Having a differing opinion and lacking compassion for her are not the same thing. It would suck to know my mom didn't want me and I feel bad for her...the same way I feel bad for babies that are born addicted to crack because they got craptastic birth mothers. But I don't see how her circumstances should make me feel bad that I'd choose my life over that of an embryo or fetus... She was unwanted and that is terrible that she has to live her life knowing that.

I don't. Blame anyone for not wanting to die and it's completely understandable. But it just doesn't happen. I don't disagree with that circumstance. But people act like it happens all the time and it just doesn't. The only time that really happens is with placenta previa. And the baby is too old to abort. They do what they can but if a placenta ruptures most likely the mother will bleed to death if they cant stop it. 🙁

 

[SlayerFest]

As opposed to going through your life knowing that you had a child that you killed? That isn't really better in my eyes. Much worse.
Abortion does a lot psychologically to women than people think it does. It's also not healthy at all, and has been linked to reproductive cancer. It's not natural.

Even if I was pro-choice, I would never be able to justify it to an abortion survivor. Would you tell the woman in the video above that she was almost killed because it was "her mother's right"?

To your last part...yes, I would. My mom thought about aborting me, for a second, but she didn't. I'm not angry with her. She was 22 with her whole life ahead of her. Sure, I wouldn't be here...but I wouldn't be aware of that. It's not like almost being aborted is like having a near death experience. It isn't traumatic...seeing as a fetus isn't aware of what is going on around them.

If someone chooses to have an abortion, that is their right. I personally, couldn't go through with it, but I respect that some people have had to make that decision, I don't judge them because I do not know them. I have no clue what is going through their heads while they are getting one. It isn't any of my damn business. Having an abortion is not easy. It's not some fun and exciting activity. It is a difficult decision that I believe, a woman has the right to make if she feels that it is best for her.

And I've heard of women being pressured into keeping their kids and then resenting them...who the hell wants to be raised by a parent that didn't want you in the first place?

 

[EvilWillow]

To your last part...yes, I would. My mom thought about aborting me, for a second, but she didn't. I'm not angry with her. She was 22 with her whole life ahead of her. Sure, I wouldn't be here...but I wouldn't be aware of that. It's not like almost being aborted is like having a near death experience. It isn't traumatic...seeing as a fetus isn't aware of what is going on around them.

If someone chooses to have an abortion, that is their right. I personally, couldn't go through with it, but I respect that some people have had to make that decision, I don't judge them because I do not know them. I have no clue what is going through their heads while they are getting one. It isn't any of my damn business. Having an abortion is not easy. It's not some fun and exciting activity. It is a difficult decision that I believe, a woman has the right to make if she feels that it is best for her.

And I've heard of women being pressured into keeping their kids and then resenting them...who the hell wants to be raised by a parent that didn't want you in the first place?

I don't have to know someone to know that abortion is wrong. And just because you don't kill the baby doesn't mean you have to keep it. We all know there are lots of people out there who can't have a baby that would love someone else's.

My mother resented me, abused, and neglected me. I have a lot of mental problems because of it, yes. But that doesn't mean that I don't want to be here. And I'm glad that my right to live wasn't taken away for my mother's "right" to choose.

We don't know what a fetus is feeling or thinking, correct. But we do know that it does feel pain and has a nervous system at 5 weeks. Which is about the time a woman finds that she is even pregnant.
There have been cases in which during 2nd and 3rd trimester abortions where the baby has actually tried to escape the doctor. It has basic survival instincts, how is it not alive? How is is not human? There is no difference in a 1st trimester fetus and a 3rd trimester fetus except development.

Being less developed doesn't make you less human.