After In the Dark

[nightshade]

People may not like this, but I don't think that Spike should of come back after the Angel episode In the Dark, him getting the chip IMO destroyed the character. Spike was never the best vampire, but he still was capable of doing a lot of damage, and giving him the chip and making him part of the good guys completely ruined everything he had previously done. He had worked hard to lose the William of his past, and become Spike, but the chip and later the soul combined with loving Buffy undone a lot of that, making him a pretty pathetic character.

 

[Chosen Enemy]

Spike is, in my opinion, one of the greatest characters on TV, and I'll explain why.
This character is far from being shallow, or black and white, or "just a vampire". Because he comes in so many flavours: he's good, he's bad, he's in love, he's a vampire, he's human, he has a soul, he's crazy, he's the bad boy, he's soft on the inside.... He has changed and flipped so many times, one thing after another. I wouldn't want him stuck in the same persona of the evil vampire. THAT would be terrible. The character has developed a lot, every season we got another Spike. He wasn't the same vampire each season. He went through the changes that not only the script wrote for him, but also the interaction with the other characters. He didn't change just like that in poor writing. You can actually see his journey, and I find it great. Spike is a great character, who shouldn't have stayed still - as an evil being, THAT would suck, to both the fans and script wise. I don't really like Faith's character, but I think the character is brilliant. Because there are many layers there, she doesn't stay the same for the entire series.

I just don't see a point in keeping Spike the same, just because he's more fun when evil. Also, what storyline could hit it when he's evil all the time? Would he stay around Sunnydale, around the scoobies, making plans on how to kill them, how to do more evil... how would that work? How would he develop and not bore us after a while?

 

[The Unspoken]

But...but...then we wouldn't have all the gratuitous Spuffy sex in season 6. 🙁

 

[zobothehobo]

Spike is, in my opinion, one of the greatest characters on TV, and I'll explain why.
This character is far from being shallow, or black and white, or "just a vampire". Because he comes in so many flavours: he's good, he's bad, he's in love, he's a vampire, he's human, he has a soul, he's crazy, he's the bad boy, he's soft on the inside.... He has changed and flipped so many times, one thing after another. I wouldn't want him stuck in the same persona of the evil vampire. THAT would be terrible. The character has developed a lot, every season we got another Spike. He wasn't the same vampire each season. He went through the changes that not only the script wrote for him, but also the interaction with the other characters. He didn't change just like that in poor writing. You can actually see his journey, and I find it great. Spike is a great character, who shouldn't have stayed still - as an evil being, THAT would suck, to both the fans and script wise. I don't really like Faith's character, but I think the character is brilliant. Because there are many layers there, she doesn't stay the same for the entire series.

I just don't see a point in keeping Spike the same, just because he's more fun when evil. Also, what storyline could hit it when he's evil all the time? Would he stay around Sunnydale, around the scoobies, making plans on how to kill them, how to do more evil... how would that work? How would he develop and not bore us after a while?

Exactly!

Also, to suggest Spike was never the "best" vampire is a bit... well wrong. No, he wasn't Angelus but he did kill two slayer in his relatively afterlife.

And I don't think William is a pathetic character at all. He's such a deep, soft, sensitive man... He's beautiful. Then combine William with Spike and you get soulled Spike... he's not only deep, soft, and sensitive. He's got his eye on the prize and he fights for it. Is there a better combination than that?

And finally, yes, Spike fought had to loose the William of the past because he was soft and sensitive... but the chip, Buffy, and the soul helped him find William again... but this time, I got the feeling he kind of embraced him. William was a comfort after where he'd been. And this by the way, is what we call "character development." If Spike had stayed evil, I'm not really sure what development could have come from it. He's evil for bit... big fun... final battle comes, Buffy stakes him... End of story. That sounds just god awful to me.

 

[nightshade]

If Spike had stayed evil, I'm not really sure what development could have come from it. He's evil for bit... big fun... final battle comes, Buffy stakes him... End of story. That sounds just god awful to me.

She wouldn't have staked him because he wouldn't have been there, he was alive when he left In the dark, we wouldn't have seen anymore of him except in flashbacks

 

[Chosen Enemy]

She wouldn't have staked him because he wouldn't have been there, he was alive when he left In the dark, we wouldn't have seen anymore of him except in flashbacks

That could have been done. But not really. Because Spike has a huge fan base. I think most Buffy fans are Spike fans. I believe some watchers of the show would have left it. Yes, because of Spike. Like, in AtS s5, they brought Spike because they thought it would be good for the ratings (that was the network's condition for another season). And you know what, it worked!
Spike kept the interest in the show for many fans. They couldn't afford lose him, because what can you do, he's the most popular character of the show.

 

[zobothehobo]

She wouldn't have staked him because he wouldn't have been there, he was alive when he left In the dark, we wouldn't have seen anymore of him except in flashbacks

No Spike sound worse than that. Especially with where is character was left at In the Dark. I love evil Spike, I love all of Spike... but he wasn't a good villain. I don't care what way to try to shake it... he was too cool and funny and adorable to be a good villain. Leaving it there, he wouldn't have nearly been my favorite fictional character ever. He would have been a cool guy on Buffy for a bit.

 

[nightshade]

I know, and that's why he didn't die in season 2 either, but I still believe the character was better without the chip

 

[zobothehobo]

That could have been done. But not really. Because Spike has a huge fan base. I think most Buffy fans are Spike fans. I believe some watchers of the show would have left it. Yes, because of Spike. Like, in AtS s5, they brought Spike because they thought it would be good for the ratings (that was the network's condition for another season). And you know what, it worked!
Spike kept the interest in the show for many fans. They couldn't afford lose him, because what can you do, he's the most popular character of the show.

EXACTLY! That's why they re-wrote it to not kill him in season 2. Angelus was supposed to kill him... but instead they made him crippled because the fans loved him so much.

 

[Chosen Enemy]

The chip was sort of an excuse for bringing Spike into the scooby core. And it's fine by me. They could have made him human instead. That would have been terrible! Anything else would be terrible! And notice that it's not exactly the chip that made him softer. It's the prosess that the chip caused. At first he was still evil, yet couldn't hurt anyone (who's not a demon). That let him to be part of the gang, sort of, and fall for Buffy. They had to make him chipped in order to develop the story. Not only to make him good, but also to keep him on the show. No chip means Buffy kills him, and no Spike.

 

[zobothehobo]

I know, and that's why he didn't die in season 2 either, but I still believe the character was better without the chip

I still believe you're wrong. Look at how far he came.... he developed from that evil vampire obsessed with killing slayers to a champion. He hands down had the most development on the show. And it's what makes him so great.

 

[nightshade]

The chip was sort of an excuse for bringing Spike into the scooby core. And it's fine by me. They could have made him human instead. That would have been terrible! QUOTE]

Agreed human Spike would have been terrible