After the Fall Issues 1-5 - Recent UK TPB release NO LATER SPOILERS

[Lindsey McDonald]

So I just got my TPB, which was actually a hardback, of the first arc of After the Fall. I apologise to all you Americans since this has probably been discussed before, but I would like people's thoughts.

I was seriously dissapointed. I liked Buffy Season 8 (where we're up to the end of No Future For You, so no Wolves spoilers either please). It didn't give me the same amount of pleasure as the show, but it was funny, twisty and a good read. It did get better the more often I re-read it. AtF though... it really left me cold.

Firstly, I have no problem with the skipping a month or two. That's the first most striking aspect. That was fine. The second would be the art. I just thought it was horrible. I liked the Buffy art style (especially in The Chain, but that wasn't done by Jeanty) but this? I know Angel's supposed to be dark and mysterious, but when it gets difficult to tell what things are it's just annoying. And the eyes. Seriously. Illyria and Nina look ridiculous most of the time with piggy little eyes. Buffy's eyes, while never exactly consistant in colour, looked like eyes. The likenesses were often poor, since eyes are a huge part of that. Wesley was a big reveal, and I didn't immediately know who it was. That's not good.

That leads me on to my next point, there was a serious overreliance on reveals. I got extremely sick of the way every character's entrance was a big thing - also, Connor's ridiculous pose was ridiculous.

Thirdly, the dialogue was at times awful. There seemed to be no punctuation at all, which I think is important when all you can do is read speech bubbles. I mean : 'Right under my nose can't help but notice your grip is getting tighter --'. When you have to read a joke three times to get the tone and expression, it isn't funny. A lot of the lines didn't really ring true to me either, especially from Illyria. There just wasn't that spark. Only Lorne seemed consistent with the series, and thats probably because he has a lot of phrases to draw on.

Things I did like: Lorne and Silverlake, since things were getting way too orange; Gwen and Nina, as they were really suited to this media; Spike, since he remained in character, and it's obvious that Lynch has more experience writing him; and finally the Dragon. That worked somehow. I don't understand how, but it worked.

So basically, what I'm saying is, what were people's initial reactions to reading this first arc? Did you like it, or was it general dissapointment? After Buffy, it just didn't seem good enough to me. Any other people who waited for the TPB?

 

[VisionGuy]

I was extremely disappointed when I first read the Angel comics. I still just read them to find out what's gonna happen. I don't like the art a lot of the times and I don't like the inclusion of that flying fish thing.

 

[Lindsey McDonald]

I was extremely disappointed when I first read the Angel comics. I still just read them to find out what's gonna happen. I don't like the art a lot of the times and I don't like the inclusion of that flying fish thing.

I'm glad I'm not alone then. I'm sure I'll keep buying it, but I can't see me looking forward to it like I am with Wolves at the Gate. The fish was just silly, and I really dislike the way it was canonised. As if the situation isn't murky enough...

So, I see that Joss didn't actually write this, but helped plot out the story. I understand that he obviously doesn't have complete input over every panel in Buffy, but was it this relitively hands off aproach that caused the differing standards? I mean, Joss must have picked the artist, so is there anyone who actually likes the style?

 

[Blondie Bear]

I bought the first issue, read it, went "What the crap is THIS?!" and decided, screw it, I'm waiting for the TPB. It'll be here any day now. I'll let you know what I think when I get it.

 

[VisionGuy]

I bought the first issue, read it, went "What the crap is THIS?!" and decided, screw it, I'm waiting for the TPB. It'll be here any day now. I'll let you know what I think when I get it .

My first reaction exactly. But I got used to it and I actually look forward to reading the next issue. Sure it's not as good as the Buffy Comics but they are okay I guess.

 

[Superstar]

There has been comment on them obviously.
The presentation is very disjointed in my opinion.
Yes, everyone is curious as to who survived.
My personal gripe is that there are just too many characters taking up too much valuable story time, thus it drags too much.
It might have flowed better if just concentrating on those characters who were in the alley.
Angel, Spike, Illyria and Gunn.

Wes I can see added to keep the W&H connection, and possibly (maybe) Connor.
The rest, not so much. I still haven't seen a valid reason for their inclusion other than the hoped for ooohh! factor of having other characters from Angel present - which doesn't give the ooohh! at all. Lorne, Nina, Gwen and ____ are really unnecessary. Lorne was last seen leaving Team Angel for good, Nina was supposed to be on a plane long before, Gwen is iffy and ____ hasn't shown a reason yet other than to completely denigrate Connor's experience growing up in the worst hell dimension which he fully remembered back on the series.

The character artwork is an iffy subject since it would have to pass approvals (some actors have personal approvals on their likenesses).
That I can give a pass on.

I'm not trying to be overly critical, but there are some things that stand out.
Mostly, it just seems to be taking a long time to tell little story.

In my opinion they should have started with the first night in hell and gone from there.
You are right, it is structured the way it is for "big reveals" which don't work very well other than to continue the confusion and give a WTF? reaction.

I still have hope for the series.

 

[Lyri]

I absolutly Hate the art for the Angel comics. It's terrible, an I really wish they'd get a new artist. I get that they're probably going for the whole 'noir' feel, ot it's supposed to look like that 'cause they're in Hell, but it's awful. Geroges Jenty (The main artist for BTVS S8) said at a Con in February that he was disappointed in the art for the Angel comic, so we're not alone.

I collect the comics and the TPB's for the new Buffy comics, but I'm afraid, with the Angel comics, I'm just collecting the monthly issues, purely for the story, and even that's not that good. I won't spend my money on something I don't like.

 

[VisionGuy]

I absolutly Hate the art for the Angel comics. It's terrible, an I really wish they'd get a new artist. I get that they're probably going for the whole 'noir' feel, ot it's supposed to look like that 'cause they're in Hell, but it's awful. Geroges Jenty (The main artist for BTVS S8) said at a Con in February that he was disappointed in the art for the Angel comic, so we're not alone.

I collect the comics and the TPB's for the new Buffy comics, but I'm afraid, with the Angel comics, I'm just collecting the monthly issues, purely for the story, and even that's not that good. I won't spend my money on something I don't like.

And yet here we are buying those Angel Comics anyway. 🙁

I think a lot more could have been done with the story. Seeing as how Angel was my favorite show out of the two, I was and still am disappointed in what they did with it.

 

[Lindsey McDonald]

There has been comment on them obviously.
The presentation is very disjointed in my opinion.
Yes, everyone is curious as to who survived.
My personal gripe is that there are just too many characters taking up too much valuable story time, thus it drags too much.
It might have flowed better if just concentrating on those characters who were in the alley.
Angel, Spike, Illyria and Gunn.

Wes I can see added to keep the W&H connection, and possibly (maybe) Connor.
The rest, not so much. I still haven't seen a valid reason for their inclusion other than the hoped for ooohh! factor of having other characters from Angel present - which doesn't give the ooohh! at all. Lorne, Nina, Gwen and ____ are really unnecessary. Lorne was last seen leaving Team Angel for good, Nina was supposed to be on a plane long before, Gwen is iffy and ____ hasn't shown a reason yet other than to completely denigrate Connor's experience growing up in the worst hell dimension which he fully remembered back on the series.

The character artwork is an iffy subject since it would have to pass approvals (some actors have personal approvals on their likenesses).
That I can give a pass on.

I'm not trying to be overly critical, but there are some things that stand out.
Mostly, it just seems to be taking a long time to tell little story.

In my opinion they should have started with the first night in hell and gone from there.
You are right, it is structured the way it is for "big reveals" which don't work very well other than to continue the confusion and give a WTF? reaction.

I still have hope for the series.

I totally agree with you. In the first arc, I've just realised, absolutely nothing happened. It was just one big series of character introductions. If I'd been buying it month by month, I'd be majorly PO'd. I also agree that there are too many characters. I think Lorne should have been unnecessary, but for me he seemed to be the only link to the actual series. I suppose Spike was too, but everybody else seems incredibly generic and characterless. Nina and Gwen work as comic book characters, but you're right, they take up space and don't contribute at all (yet, anyway).

And Lyri: I'm actually quite glad that Jeanty said that. Most people in that position would keep their mouth shut and keep getting paid, but for someone that involved in Joss' comic explorations to speak out might make the team take notice. I do think it should have a much more dark, noir inspired style than Buffy, but....just not this one! It all keeps coming back to the eyes for me. Just look at Illyria! Her eyes were one of her most striking features on the show, and now they just look silly.

 

[Primal Slayer]

I basically feel the same way. Angel "S6" is ok but it could have been so much better in so many ways. I just want to know what offically happens to the charecters and thats about the only reason why I pick up the comic from time to time.

I think if they had gone with the orignal S6 plan that they would have filmed, the comic would be way better. And hopefully they get out of hell soon and go back to the normal world and start having some good Angel adventures.

 

[Superstar]

I totally agree with you.

Is this a first? 🙂

In the first arc, I've just realised, absolutely nothing happened.

Well, not exactly nothing.
Nothing much maybe. I almost get the feeling that it is simply filler on a sparse outline.
Perhaps there is something to the rumor of Dark Horse reacquiring the Angel license after all.

So far it is 10 issues along plus 1 issue of Spike.
You've read 5 of them. 4 of the remaining deal with First Night.
That leaves 2 issues further along on the "present" story.

Betta George (yes, I know Joss liked him so he got included - a what were you high on moment if I ever saw one; my guess, 'shrooms) has been of less use than ____. His main role so far has been to take up space as a Lynch character showcase on ennui and to introduce even more Lynch characters. He has had only one function you have yet to see. As for Nina and Gwen it doesn't get any better. Same for Lorne and ____.
Are those spoilers?

It does get better with the 2 issues though, so that's something to look forward to.
The story seems to have finally found some sort of direction, so I still have hope.

My guess is that Spike: First Night is really just an opportunity to capitalize on Spike fandom, but we'll see.
I can't really see it adding all that much background info that could not have been done better if it had been scripted properly into the original story in the first place. Again, First Night first not as added material later. It would have felt a smoother flow instead of sputtering.

The next collection should be soon for you though.

 

[Lindsey McDonald]

Is this a first? 🙂

Quite possibly! 🙂

Well, not exactly nothing.
Nothing much maybe. I almost get the feeling that it is simply filler on a sparse outline.
Perhaps there is something to the rumor of Dark Horse reacquiring the Angel license after all.

Certainly nothing interesting! It really all does seem like set up and exposition, which isn't fun for 5 issues in a row.

So far it is 10 issues along plus 1 issue of Spike.
You've read 5 of them. 4 of the remaining deal with First Night.
That leaves 2 issues further along on the "present" story.

Betta George (yes, I know Joss liked him so he got included - a what were you high on moment if I ever saw one; my guess, 'shrooms) has been of less use than ____. His main role so far has been to take up space as a Lynch character showcase on ennui and to introduce even more Lynch characters. He has had only one function you have yet to see. As for Nina and Gwen it doesn't get any better. Same for Lorne and ____.
Are those spoilers?

Considering I didn't really expect much more, I doubt it!

It does get better with the 2 issues though, so that's something to look forward to.
The story seems to have finally found some sort of direction, so I still have hope.

My guess is that Spike: First Night is really just an opportunity to capitalize on Spike fandom, but we'll see.
I can't really see it adding all that much background info that could not have been done better if it had been scripted properly into the original story in the first place. Again, First Night first not as added material later. It would have felt a smoother flow instead of sputtering.

The next collection should be soon for you though.

September, I think. Which is nice. Or, rather, seemed nice beforehand. I really do think First Night should have come first (that is, without having read it, of course). It would have meant we could have dealt with the storyline that they are trying to crowbar in between reveals much more easily.

 

[Superstar]

The funny thing; IDW is actually a fine comics company.

Certainly nothing interesting! It really all does seem like set up and exposition, which isn't fun for 5 issues in a row.

First Night is nothing but set-up - obviously. Fine for the beginning of a story. Not so much as interlude.

It would have meant we could have dealt with the storyline that they are trying to crowbar in between reveals much more easily.

Yeppers! When all is said and done I'd like to see a script doctor (Joss, you used to do this!) rework the story into a more presentable fashion. *ding* Idea! I'll make my own from scans.

As a Trek fan I am enjoying the IDW TOS Trek fare, which incidentally will have a comic for the new movie.
So whatever problems AATF is having stem from the scripting side.
If Joss is more involved than it appears then he has fallen far from grace.

 

[white avenger]

As far as the art goes, none of the present day artists, in my opinion, can compare with the likes of Russ Manning, the Buschima brothers, or almost any of the Golden or Silver Age artists, plus there were twice or even three times the number of pages per issue. One issue back then would be the same as an entire arc is tobay. Back then the comics were more about the story and the art rather than making something that could be collected and would last for decades. The cheap pulp paper used back then wouldn'l last anything like as long as what is used nowdays. Until the Buffy and Angel comics came out, I hadn't read or even looked at a comic in almost 35 years, and if it weren't for my obsession with Joss and his characters, I wouldn't be buying them today.

I guess this seems like an old man's "back in my day..." rant, doesn't it? Well, you can tear into me now if you want to, but since I'm using a borrowed computer while mine's being worked on, I won't be here to see it for at least a couple of days.

 

[Superstar]

Russ Manning

Woot!
His Star Wars strip run is still one of the greats.
They have been collected by Dark Horse (colored even) and published as:
Classic Star Wars: The Early Years Vol 1-9
And an additional volume titled The Constancia Affair

Check 'em out if you want that ol' time feeling.