Aliens

[Blaze]

So we've agreed what UFO means, but to state that all sightings are of human (this planets) origin seems a bit much to me.

This is true, but again, there's not proof, in that area, yes UFOs can be compared to GOD, because we don't know.

You stated that they (UFO's) are not of alien origin because there is no proof, what would you deem as proof, and is only considered proof if you accept it?

No, proofs is when something is scientifically proven, or relatively undeniable, it is a truth. It doesn't matter if you accept it or not, it is proven nonetheless. For example, it is true that oranges are orange, doesn't matter if I'm colourblind and see them blue (in which case I might not accept that they are orange), but it is proven that they are orange, there is proof because we know the wavelength at which the color shows.

What about the hundreds of cave paintings from many parts of the world that seem to depict the same creature. Maybe that Roswel thing?
When you say that a UFO sighting isn't necessarily proof aliens exist, given that many UFO sightings are fake many of them could be real, so they might well be proof that aliens exist.

Again, UFOs are not a proof of aliens because there are so many other possibilities, it is an hypothesis, and a valid one, but it is not a proof.

 

[JCoatsworth]

So we've agreed what UFO means, but to state that all sightings are of human (this planets) origin seems a bit much to me.

I'm no expert and I'm not pretending to know anything about UFO sightings, but I'd say all of the sightings are either fake, and the supposed witnesses are lying, or the UFO is of terrestrial origin. Why would aliens fly around on earth, anyway?

You stated that they (UFO's) are not of alien origin because there is no proof, what would you deem as proof, and is only considered proof if you accept it?

Anything that without a doubt proves that the UFO is extraterrestrial. Don't ask me what that would be, but I'm not convinced by a photograph. There are too many ways to fake something like that.

What about the hundreds of cave paintings from many parts of the world that seem to depict the same creature. Maybe that Roswel thing?

What kind of cave paintings do you mean? Do you mean paintings like in Kindom of the Crystal Skull (sorry, I can't think of a better example) that show weird people with big heads? I also don't know anything about the Roswell incident, but your post got me interested.

When you say that a UFO sighting isn't necessarily proof aliens exist, given that many UFO sightings are fake many of them could be real, so they might well be proof that aliens exist.

Yes, they might be evidence, but not necessarily. If there's evidence that a UFO is alien, then yes, obviously you could consider the UFO evidence for extraterrestrial life. But what I meant is that a UFO isn't automatically proof for aliens, because an UFO could have all kinds of origins. As long as there's no evidence that the UFO extraterrestrial, the UFO can't be evidence for extraterrestrials. That's what I was trying to say.

As I see it any UFO that comes from another planet is from a higher intelligence, that is based on them having the knowledge to go to another planet.

Totally agree. It would require high intelligence to travel to another planet.
However, it's more likely that our first contact with actual extraterrestrial life will be with microorganisms that have been brought to earth by chance on a meteor or something. But again, I guess this thread is mainly about intelligent life. So I'll shut up about that 😛

As for if a person has found proof that God exists but doesn't tell anyone else, how is it that the knowledge is useless to him/her?

It's not useless to that person, obviously. But for the rest of the world it would be quite useless, wouldn't it?

 

[fitz1980]

What about the hundreds of cave paintings from many parts of the world that seem to depict the same creature. Maybe that Roswel thing?

We've also seen ancient depictions of dragons and sea monsters from many different parts of the world. Does that mean that there really were once dragons and sea serpents on Earth?

 

[ILLYRIAN]

fitz1980,
what is a dragon and what is a sea serpent?
I love the idea that there might have been dragons, but I am glad they don't exist now. It's bad enough when a bird craps on my car, so if a dragon was to....
Given that boats were a lot shorter a thousand years ago (or five) and that an Octopus of 30 feet has been found, Eels of 15 feet and Cat-fish of 300 pounds or Sting-rays that are 10 feet round. A sea serpent isn't that far fetched if they saw a Blue whale only once?

JCoatsworth,
I agree, if a person did find proof of God and didn't tell the world it would be useless for the majority of people. Now if I found proof I can think of two religions I'd love to tell, especially if their thoughts were wrong.

About sightings of UFO's of the ten thousand or so (a guess) maybe only 50 might be real. Given that they are of a higher intelligence I doubt they want to meet us humans, plants and animals ok, and maybe have a fly around looking at what this world has to offer. As travel to this planet might take them quite a while, maybe they're trying to figure out how long the world will take to get better, after mankind has buggered it up.

About cave paintings, where ever man existed they painted on their cave walls. Some paintings have lasted better than others but men in strange masks that are similar in many cultures. Some even have depictions of flying crafts.

Have you ever watched the stars at night? I see satellites quite often but it's the stars that zig-zag across the sky that get me.
Where I live is one of the best places to see the night sky in Australia.

I've heard that people can doctor photographs, not me though and I've been trying for years. Good thing I can't really as April fools day might happen several times a year.

It's good to be able to have an exchange of notions that are different and not have it result in name calling, thanks.

 

[JCoatsworth]

JCoatsworth,
I agree, if a person did find proof of God and didn't tell the world it would be useless for the majority of people. Now if I found proof I can think of two religions I'd love to tell, especially if their thoughts were wrong.

I agree. However, I'd be afraid of what those other religious people might do in that case.

Have you ever watched the stars at night? I see satellites quite often but it's the stars that zig-zag across the sky that get me.
Where I live is one of the best places to see the night sky in Australia.

To be honest, I have never seen anything weird in the sky. I've never seen anything that led me to believe that there were extraterrestrial visitors on earth.

About cave paintings, where ever man existed they painted on their cave walls. Some paintings have lasted better than others but men in strange masks that are similar in many cultures. Some even have depictions of flying crafts.

But those paintings could be all kinds of things. They could be the imagination the people who painted it, or works of fiction.

It's good to be able to have an exchange of notions that are different and not have it result in name calling, thanks.

I was thinking the exact same thing. Thanks for keeping it civilized 🙂


To anyone who's interested in this topic, whether you believe in extraterrestrials or not, I highly recommend watching these two videos:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSJElZwEI8o"]Neil deGrasse Tyson on UFOs[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAUCr9OorXU"]Carl Sagan on UFOs[/ame]

 

[SRMarx]

About cave paintings, where ever man existed they painted on their cave walls. Some paintings have lasted better than others but men in strange masks that are similar in many cultures. Some even have depictions of flying crafts.

The similar cave paintings and similar cultural traditions in general has always been used as a way to support the existence of intelligent extraterrestrial life. I personally can't disagree more. Archaeological investigation has given support to the spread of many similar cultural traditions (including cave paintings and other art styles) throughout our major continents in a sequential manner.

There are some controversies over exact dates and time periods but there has been plenty of proof to support the idea that humans developed in Africa, moved through Europe and Asia, and eventually made their way to the Americas, taking all their cultural traditions with them. Hence why we find similarities or exact methods in certain cultural practices. There is not only archaeological support for this theory, but biological support, now with the ability to extract DNA and examine teeth of human remains. Even linguistics has found a way to lend support by studying the different languages and the types of teeth of certain groups of modern-day people.

Cave paintings that depict strange beings that may resemble astronauts should be viewed by the cultural lens of the people who painted them. It is easy to look at a picture and to give it a meaning based on your own experience or cultural context. But someone raised in a different culture will probably have an entirely different opinion on an ambiguous picture. Of course, we can't go back in time and ask the artists of the cave painting to tell us what they mean, but I think it is very important to understand that people don't always have the same perception as we do. Different cultures see things in different ways and we live in a culturally diverse world.

People don't always draw what is empirically in front of them either. Paintings can represent mythology (creation stories and the such) or other abstract ideas and concepts. For example, I have a notebook where I have scribbled alien drawings (for real, I absolutely adore this subject), but I did not decide to make these drawings because I actually saw an alien. I just wanted to draw a concept I happen to like. If an archaeologist found that notebook thousands of years into the future, it would be difficult for he/she to base any kind of assessment about the existence of extraterrestrial life based on that notebook alone.