Spoiler! An Insight into Twilight **Great Muppety Oden is There Spoilers!**

Kean

Professional Bangel
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Cross this line and you are moving into spoiler country!















Ok, I'm going to try and contain my squee here because this interview has gotten me SOOOOO excited!


This is Scott Allie's interview with Buffyfest....very interesting!


Tomorrow's release of Buffy Issue #33 means a lot to fans of Season 8 because Buffy will finally get to see the face under the Twilight mask. Not only that, but 99.9% of us will be free to talk openly about Twilight's true identity as Angel. Even though we've known for a while now, it doesn't mean we're not chomping at the bit to find out the why of it all.

With all the praise, publicity and backlash going on in the fandom these past few months, we figured it was time to ask Dark Horse Editor Super Scott Allie (pictured left) a few questions about Angel and his opinion on what drives the character, the importance of the shanshu, his favorite season and a bit more. If you squint hard enough, there's definitely some (very) subtle hints at what's to come in here. Plus, check out the piece of new preview art at the bottom of the page!

Buffyfest: Let's start with the basics. What do you like most about the character of Angel and what do you dislike most?

Scott Allie: My favorite novel is Frankenstein. To me, Frankenstein is the epitome of the Byronic hero, wonderful but flawed, poetic but monstrous. I'm a big fan of the Dexter TV show, and there's a similar thing going on there. It's this that I love in Angel, same as Spike. All of these guys are monsters and heroes, romantic figures with terrible downsides. These are all poignant figures, genuinely tragic. With Angel, he's got so much to atone for, and even as he strives to make up for it, he's heading toward something worse. It's amazing.


Buffyfest: Not only are you an editor at Dark Horse, but you've also done quite a lot of writing, such as your work on Solomon Kane and Exurbia. If you could write one episode of Angel on TV which Season would it be in and why?


Scott Allie: Final season, because I think it has the most interesting mix of characters.


Buffyfest: It's fascinating that some fans love every season except 5 and others think it's the strongest season. What specifically do you think makes the season 5 group of characters more interesting than the earlier seasons?


Scott Allie: The characters had really become themselves, they'd settled into their personalities and in some cases powers. Some of the character dynamics, the relationships, were in really good shape. The whole thing with Fred, with Spike and Angel. I don't remember how much Connor was in it. Was he in it much? I think it's a little like the Rolling Stones. They did their best stuff, they stood on their own the best, after the Beatles were gone. Between the Buttons compared well to some Beatles records, but with Sticky Fingers the Stones were entirely, perfectly their own band, and only then were they the Greatest Rock 'n' Roll Band in the World. What were we talking about?


Buffyfest: Ha! Great metaphor. Next up, if you could write a scene between Angel and either Buffy, Giles or Faith who would you choose and why? What would happen in that scene?


Scott Allie: If it was a choice between those, it'd be Giles. It'd be fun to write a scene with Buffy, because I love writing real love scenes, characters that genuinely have that level of connection. But the thing I'd like to deal with in a scene with Giles is Angel's much greater age and experience. Given my personal interests, my background, I'd love to write a scene between these two amazing occult detectives.


Buffyfest: Angel is a very controversial figure for many reasons, but one being his decision to take over Wolfram & Hart. Do you feel that decision makes him less of a hero or was he backed in a corner and trying to do the best he could with his choices?


Scott Allie: I dunno. That wasn't my favorite development. Doesn't make him less of a hero, but it does play into the flawed thing I was talking about before. And it did make me a little less interested in him.


Buffyfest: Buffy and Angel are about to be thrown into each others paths in Season 8 with the revelation of Twilight. What do you think Whedon finds so fascinating about their relationship that he keeps coming back to it?


Scott Allie: These characters spawned a whole genre, this paranormal romance thing, with that other Twilight. It's a big deal. He created something epic, iconic, archetypal with this relationship. That was something I put a lot of thought into with Conan, the few ideas that come along once in a while and really speak to us in a huge, permanent way, spawning unlimited imitations.


Buffyfest: Staying on the topic of these two characters, what do you think makes Buffy and Angel similar as heroes and what makes them different?


Scott Allie: They're similarly moral, heroic, flawed, arrogant. Part demon, with a sharp wit, mad ninja skills. But they're real different, in interesting ways, more personal ways. She's defined by her friends, he connects in limited ways with just about anyone but her. She's got a strong moral compass, that's only undermined by her selfishness. Well, it's not as simple as that, but that is an aspect of her. His morality is more self-serving, but not selfishly so.


Buffyfest: What are your feelings about the shanshu? Do you think Angel will be rewarded at the end of his story? Do you think he should be?


Scott Allie: I'm conflicted on this. I would love to see the shanshu through, but I don't know if Angel really needs to be defined by it. I personally think that at the end of the day, that prophecy is not the most important thing for Joss when it comes to Angel.


Buffyfest: So then, what do you think is the most important thing for Joss when it comes to Angel and following up on that, in the most general sense, what matters most to the character of Angel?


Scott Allie: One word to answer both questions, and this is not gonna be popular with some fans, but you can see it coming ... Buffy.



Thanks to Scott for a really interesting interview. If you haven't seen the preview for Issue #33, check it out here.


See below for an extra preview page where, to quote Scott, "Giles explains the secret history of vampires and slayers." What? What secret history? Oh man, Season 8 is about to get really interesting.


First off *Bangel dance of joy*

Second off...the secret history of vampires and slayer!

Source: Buffyfest: Scott Allie Talks about the Man Under the Twilight Mask (Major Spoilers)
 
E
Eleftheria
*joins Kean in bangel dance of joy* thanks sweetie!
Angelic Slayer
Angelic Slayer
*does the bangel dance of joy too, can't wait for these issues to come out!* :D
Now that I've come down off my Bangel-High there are a couple of things that are worth discussing.

The vamp/slayer history. This is either going to be amazing or stink of bad fan fic. I'm leaning towards the former, with hope. Given the images I think the fact that Angel bit Buffy is going to come into play as is the fact that they both, appear to have, attained the same superpowers. I'd wager there is a link between them that we don't know about yet. Hence the sectret history.

While I am excited about how much importance was put on the Bangel relationship in this interview I am slightly concerned about Buffy still being Angel's driving force. I like him becoming his own person and having his own motivations. Unless, getting to this point has been the driving point in their relationship from the very beginning? Was there a path they were supposed to be on that was rewired by him losing his soul and they are only coming back to it now? Was it always supposed to be about Buffy and him fighting this fight?

Too many thoughts.

I gotta admit though that having a significant shift in the mythology has really amped up the excitement of this issue for me.
 
yes the prospect of new or expanded Slayer mythology is certainly intriguing - I've got my fingers crossed that it will work and not be too retconny.

Also, was interested that Scott Allie considers Buffy 'part Demon' - I always thought she had the essence of a demon as her power source but that she wasn't herself part-demon (not in the sense that Doyle or Cordelia were) - am I wrong about this? What are others thoughts?

As for Buffy still being Angel's driving force - well I wouldn't have thought that that was quite correct either - but then, he would hardly say 'Connor' or the 'ongoing redemptive journey' as that may sort of direct people to a rival publishing company's output.

Still, very excited about where this story is going...
 
yes the prospect of new or expanded Slayer mythology is certainly intriguing - I've got my fingers crossed that it will work and not be too retconny.

Me too, if this is massively retconny I won't be too keen on it. I suppose it will depend on what this history actually is.

Also, was interested that Scott Allie considers Buffy 'part Demon' - I always thought she had the essence of a demon as her power source but that she wasn't herself part-demon (not in the sense that Doyle or Cordelia were) - am I wrong about this? What are others thoughts?

I picked up on that too. While I accepted that Buffy's power found its source in demons I never considered her part demon because of that. I wonder if this issue will be addressed in the issues? In a way it would make the "I'm a vampire" thing we saw in the spoilers make a little more sense. In casting the Slayer Spell has she essentially "turned" all those girls?
 
Also, was interested that Scott Allie considers Buffy 'part Demon' - I always thought she had the essence of a demon as her power source but that she wasn't herself part-demon (not in the sense that Doyle or Cordelia were)

I agree. I don't think Buffy is a apart demon, perhaps it was a misued word, or a slip of tongue to a spoiler.
 
E
Eleftheria
I guess he said that cause of the demon powers?
"One word to answer both questions, and this is not gonna be popular with some fans, but you can see it coming ... Buffy."


what more do we want people??? :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
 
Considering the things he's done, I'm not sure if it's a good thing or a bad thing that he still cares about Buffy. At this point, a romantic reunion between them would seem an awful lot like "he only beats me because he loves me" on Buffy's part.

"Hold me, Angel. But first, could you go get a rag and wipe the blood of my friends off your hands? This is my favorite sweater."

I'm very interested in the Expanded History of Vampires and Slayers. I'm also interested to know how Giles will find the time to deliver a lecture during this issue.

But it's Joss, so no danger of bad fanfic.
 
Wishing Oceans
Wishing Oceans
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Considering the things he's done, I'm not sure if it's a good thing or a bad thing that he still cares about Buffy. At this point, a romantic reunion between them would seem an awful lot like "he only beats me because he loves me" on Buffy's part.

True. I withold my final verdict on this until we get explanations/



Andrew said:
But it's Joss, so no danger of bad fanfic.

That's honestly the only thing that makes me believe that this won't be crap. I get nervous because I've read alot of bad fic that stuck in "a secret histroy between vampires and slayers".
 
Wishing Oceans
Wishing Oceans
[No message]
I'm gonna say this as a devoted, some night say fanatical, Spuffy supporter, and there is no double meaning, no sarcasm, no hidden agenda, and no cop out intended. As much as I would love to see a reunion between Buffy and Spike, over the last few days, while participating in some other threads here, I have come to this realization about this Season 8 arc. This is a time for Buffy and Angel, good, bad, happy, tragic, or just confusing. It's for them, and for them alone. Bringing Spike into this at such a time would only cheapen and degrade the story line and serve no real purpose. I do feel that there should be a Buffy/Spike reunion at some point, but not now. This is for Buffy and Angel, and I truly hope that it turns out to be beautiful, joyful, and memorable, something that will make even the Gods on Mount Olympus stand and cheer.
 
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Or...it could be a total freakshow with lots of tears and violence.
Kean
Kean
Sometimes you surprise me ;)
B
Buffyverse Fan
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B
Big Damn Hero
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Considering the things he's done, I'm not sure if it's a good thing or a bad thing that he still cares about Buffy. At this point, a romantic reunion between them would seem an awful lot like "he only beats me because he loves me" on Buffy's part.

"Hold me, Angel. But first, could you go get a rag and wipe the blood of my friends off your hands? This is my favorite sweater."
This is exactly how I feel, Andrew. I just read this interview on the way to work today, and it is quite interesting, to say the least. I too dislike the idea of the thing being most important to Angel being Buffy. I mean, that discounts everything he's worked for. Buffy does not define Angel. His whole life, actions aren't for her alone. I like what Kean said about his actions being modivated by his own reasons.
I too am very interested in the whole "new" Slayer/Demon history...huh? What could it possibly be?

Some comments I particularily liked about Scott's interview:

It's this that I love in Angel, same as Spike. All of these guys are monsters and heroes, romantic figures with terrible downsides. These are all poignant figures, genuinely tragic. With Angel, he's got so much to atone for, and even as he strives to make up for it, he's heading toward something worse. It's amazing.

Frankenstein is one of my favorite books, too. Although, I'm more inclinced to sympathize with the Monster, then with Victor. Regardless, I love that Scott included Spike in his description of what he feels is the ultimate fictional hero.

Weird that he says that Season 5 is his favorite season of Angel, yet he can't remember if Conner was in it much. Also, he says he disliked Angel's decision to take over W&H.

Scott Allie: These characters spawned a whole genre, this paranormal romance thing, with that other Twilight. It's a big deal. He created something epic, iconic, archetypal with this relationship. That was something I put a lot of thought into with Conan, the few ideas that come along once in a while and really speak to us in a huge, permanent way, spawning unlimited imitations.

Gosh, I really like this. I love how he suggests that Twilight was inspired by Buffy. Right on!

Scott Allie: They're similarly moral, heroic, flawed, arrogant. Part demon, with a sharp wit, mad ninja skills. But they're real different, in interesting ways, more personal ways. She's defined by her friends, he connects in limited ways with just about anyone but her. She's got a strong moral compass, that's only undermined by her selfishness. Well, it's not as simple as that, but that is an aspect of her. His morality is more self-serving, but not selfishly so.
I'm not so sure I agree with what he has to say about Buffy, though. Buffy is not part demon - is she? We know she has demon essence in her, but that's it. I like how he says that Buffy is defined by her friends, while Angel is more solitary and can't easily connent with others. I also do not think Buffy is selfish, just human and imperfect.

I personally think that at the end of the day, that prophecy is not the most important thing for Joss when it comes to Angel.
Well, this doesn't surprise me. I'd pretty much given up on the whole shanshu thing. After all, how will he reconcile Twilight's actions? How can we redeem himself after this? What do you all think?
 
Scott Allie: These characters spawned a whole genre, this paranormal romance thing, with that other Twilight. It's a big deal. He created something epic, iconic, archetypal with this relationship.



And once again I say, Joss was a long way from being the creator of the "paranormal romance thing." It's a plot device that goes back much further than Buffy and Angel. Maybe someone should send him a copy of "The Ghost And Mrs Muir" with Rex Harrison and Jean Tierney sometime. Now THAT was a paranormal romance, and even it wasn't the first.
 
And once again I say, Joss was a long way from being the creator of the "paranormal romance thing." It's a plot device that goes back much further than Buffy and Angel. Maybe someone should send him a copy of "The Ghost And Mrs Muir" with Rex Harrison and Jean Tierney sometime. Now THAT was a paranormal romance, and even it wasn't the first.

Well, yeah, obviously Joss wasn't the first to write a romance between a human and a vampire, or a paranormal romance for that matter. I think, though, that he did have a big hand in making the whole vampire/human love thing mainstream. Anne Rice's novels explored the more "human" sides of vampires, but I can't recollect if there were any humans involved. I think the romance was strictly between the vamps.

Anyhow, I just like what Scott had to say about the Twilight saga being a rip-off. 😉
 
Joan said:
I also do not think Buffy is selfish, just human and imperfect.

Being selfish is one of the "imperfect" side affects of being human and I personally thing Allie is spot on about Buffy.

There is no doubting how selfless she is, how she has given her life for this cause, however, looking back over decisions she has made I think it would be ludicrous to not call some of them selfish.

I mean just look at the most recent example of it, when Willow cast the spell to find the Slayer that needed her the most Buffy got jealous that a) it wasn't her and b) that it was Faith.

Selfishness is absolutely one of Buffy's flaws.
 
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
I guess you're right...
white avenger
white avenger
Even Achillis had a heel. That's the definition of a flawed hero. If Buffy were perfect, she would have been downright boring.
Kean agrees: Sometimes you surprise me 😉

To quote my favorite space cowboy, "This is what I do, darlin'. This is what I do."

Surprising pretty ladies is something that a Southern gentleman learns to do before he loses his first baby tooth. It's part of our devastating charm and charisma.
 
Kean
Kean
Aaaaand then the surprising ends!
K
Kelsey
lol!
Anyhow, I just like what Scott had to say about the Twilight saga being a rip-off. 😉

I like it even better that Buffy said that Twilight was a ripoff of her life in #33 😀

yes the prospect of new or expanded Slayer mythology is certainly intriguing - I've got my fingers crossed that it will work and not be too retconny.
same boat

Also, was interested that Scott Allie considers Buffy 'part Demon' - I always thought she had the essence of a demon as her power source but that she wasn't herself part-demon (not in the sense that Doyle or Cordelia were) - am I wrong about this? What are others thoughts?
You're with the consensus, but at the end of the day, if Buffy was in Caritas trying to brawl, I think the No Demon Violence Spell would have taken her down just like the similar one did to Connor.

As for Buffy still being Angel's driving force - well I wouldn't have thought that that was quite correct either - but then, he would hardly say 'Connor' or the 'ongoing redemptive journey' as that may sort of direct people to a rival publishing company's output.
I think Buffy is a fair summation (for a one word summation). Remember when Angel lost his soul in S4, his final word was "Buffy."

If he had to choose between saving Connor or Buffy, he wouldn't even flinch and go for Connor, but while he does love Connor more, he certainly doesn't crave him (which would be super creepy, haha), nor does he aspire to be like Connor.

And unlike most Buffyverse situations, this would be directly comparable to a very common situation, a man's love for his wife and son.
 
I like it even better that Buffy said that Twilight was a ripoff of her life in #33 😀

Actually, and I hate to say it, when I saw that panel of Buffy idiotically kissing her sparkly vampire boyfriend, all I could think of was "now Joss is ripping off the Twilight books."
 
I've get to say this is pretty insightful. And it's definitely nice to know which way they are leaning in the storylines.

True - neither Buffy nor Angel are by any means "perfect". They are both flawed, yet capable of being quite heroic. But then that's a good thing, in story telling.
 
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