And once again, Spike is considered a hero...

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WiccanWillow

Five by Five
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Feb 2, 2003
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As much as I'm going to get yelled at by all the Spuffyites for this, I don't think it was a very good move for Buffy to just shut the door in Giles' face, and make Spike be the hero of this episode.

Hear me out -

When Giles mentioned that Buffy would kill Dawn in the end if it saved the world, it didn't settle well with me, but I was pretty much fine with it. But when it was implied that she wouldn't kill Spike, I was really pissed. Did I take that scene a different way, or was Buffy caring about Spike more than Dawn?

Now, when Buffy told Wood that she'd let Spike kill him, this also got me mad. First of all, if Spike was so integral to The First's plans, I'd kill him in a heartbeat. I feel Giles and Wood seem to be the only one's with a bit of decent sanity to try to take out Spike. 🙄

Now, I'm not a complete Spike hater, but if Buffy were looking at the big picture like Giles was telling her, maybe she wouldn't be so blinded by Spike's "bravery". And yes, I understand Spike may be helpful in the end fight, but one good fighter isn't going to save the world.

So to sum it all up, I just don't think Spike deserves all this special hero treatment. I seem to think Anya had the right idea. Spike could kill a hundred fratboys, and Buffy wouldn't give a damn. 🙄

Please, feel free to rebut. But no posts like "Spuffy Rules! Go to hell for your blasfemuring!" Let's just have intelligent conversations in here.😉
 
Originally posted by WiccanWillow
I seem to think Anya had the right idea. Spike could kill a hundred fratboys, and Buffy wouldn't give a damn. 🙄
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The irony in that comment is that Anya has killed hundreds of fratboys 😉
 
Yes, and Buffy tried to kill Anya for it. But we don't see any attempted murders when Spike is involved, do we? 😉
 
I completely agree with you WW.
Giles didn't really have any other choice.
The trigger was too dangerous for Spike to keep within him
The First could have used it to unleash Spike at any time.

As Anya pointed out: Buffy gives Spike a Get Out of Jail Free Card.

(And it looks like Faith has one of those too...) 😉
 
Well, I see Faith as deserving a "Get Out Of Jail Free Card". At least she doesn't freak out and kill people whenever she hears some old "folk diddly".😀 😛
 
Yeah, I've made a couple posts about this. Buffy just seems a little hypocritcal. Spike was dangerous when he had the chip (Buffy saw him feed off a girl at the Bronze while it was still in his head), he was dangerous when he had a soul (the trigger) and she still did squat. She waited for Angel to nearly destroy the world before killing him (if she'd done it earlier Ms. Calender would still be alive). She didn't even really try to kill Dark Willow. When she's close to someone she just lets it slide. She never really got along famously with Anya so she stuck the sword in her A.S.A.P.. Faith went after Angel so she got knifed A.S.A.P.. Faith came back and messed around with Riley and Buffy hunted her down to L.A. with this whole 'no talk, JAIL!' attitude (why no jail for Spike? Why no jail for Giles? Why no jail for Willow? Why no jail for Angel?). It seems like Buffy decides who lives and who dies, who gets a chance and who gets none by how much she likes them.

As far as her liking Spike more that Dawn... dunno, didn't get that impression. I think if Dawn had been about to be killed she would have rushed off to save her aswell. She was saying that in the final battle if it came down to the world or Dawn, she'd choose the world. We can assume she'd do the same if it came down to a world or Spike scenario. I just think such a senario should never have been able to occur since Spike earned his dusting a long time ago.
 
Originally posted by WiccanWillow
Yes, and Buffy tried to kill Anya for it. But we don't see any attempted murders when Spike is involved, do we? 😉
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Correct me if I'm wrong but didnt entire S2 play out with them trying to kill eachother? And Anya killed all those people during her time before becoming a regular - I don't think there is one person in the Scoobies that Buffy hasnt poked with something sharp.
 
first i'll say that i haven't actually seen the episode yet, i just read the wildfeed summary.

yes, buffy's favoritism towards spike is very annoying. i mean, anya kills a couple of people, and buffy goes to slice her up without any question.

posted by wiccanwillow
When Giles mentioned that Buffy would kill Dawn in the end if it saved the world, it didn't settle well with me, but I was pretty much fine with it. But when it was implied that she wouldn't kill Spike, I was really pissed. Did I take that scene a different way, or was Buffy caring about Spike more than Dawn?
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i just thought that after three seasons buffy had realized how annoying dawn was, so she doesn't mind killing her. but then, spike was really annoying last season, and she didn't kill him, so what the hell. and then she says she'll let him kill wood. it's just retarded. buffy (the character) sucks.
 
There are interesting points made here....

BUT, when it comes to Buffy, she tends to protect the people she loves. She sees inherent goodness in people, even when they are totaly scumbags. I think that is her downfall. She knows in her heart that yeah, okay, Spike did kill people with the chip, because of the trigger, but she has faith in him that he can be a good man.

She had the exact same faith in Angel... so it's really not different than before. She is in love with a 'vampire with a soul' and the circumstances are pretty much the same.

So, I guess I don't see the controversy. Giles totally deserved to have the door shut in his face and Wood totally deserved to be threatened. That's the way to go guys... piss of the Slayer with the most power (and she's the strongest) so she doesn't have her head on straight and then the First "eats you starting with your bottom!"
 
Spike killed people. Yes. But not on purpose, he wasn't the one killing them, the First had him triggered.

Anya killed people out of her own free will. So did Faith.

As for Willow, I dunno wether you can blame her, or wether we should blame Darth Rosenberg (the Magics), then again, who brought forth DR, Willow, with perhaps the help of Warren?

I don't blame Buffy, she did exactly what Giles said, be prepared to make sacrifices; Wood!

I don't blame Wood either, I mean he definatly has a trauma, and they should help him get over!
 
Both Giles and Buffy had best intentions at heart. However, seeing as how Spike has been de-triggered, it seems that Buffy had the right idea.

One thing that was made blatantly obvious is that Wood is no where near the fighter that Spike is. Unless they can drag Angel out from LA, he's near irreplacable. Well, except for Faith of course, but as much as I like Faith's character, I hardly think she's any more trustworthy than Spike.
 
Wood is like the Gunn of Sunnydale!

Angel is going to be dragged out to Sunnydale!
 
Originally posted by Allycat
Wood is like the Gunn of Sunnydale!


nah, i dont think wood is much like gun. gun's a little more reckless (which is cool to watch), and more "street savy". by that i mean he kinda grew up on his own and stuff. he even had to sell his soul for a truck! i think gun's cooler though.



AND A WORD TO THE WISE: i quoted allycat, and that spoiler sig came up without me highlighting it (i almost read it, but looked away). i'm not saying i'm mad at ya allycat, just something the forum did that i think everyone should watch out for.
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@ raz3186: I understand, when you quote someone, you automatically lose all the UBB tags, really annoying sometimes, specially this things!
 
Originally posted by Happy
When she's close to someone she just lets it slide.
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So let's say she does kill everyone who becomes a threat at any point. Who would have been dead by now?

Xander - killed off when he was a hyena guy
Willow - killed off when she became an evil witch
Giles - killed off when he became a demon
Angel - killed off when he lost his soul
Spike - killed off pretty much whenever
Dawn - killed off to prevent Glory from using her
Anya - killed off when she was killing frat boys
Oz - killed when he became a werewolf

The show and her circle of friends would be running quite thin rather fast, don't you think? 🙂
 
Originally posted by Leshy
So let's say she does kill everyone who becomes a threat at any point. Who would have been dead by now?

Xander - killed off when he was a hyena guy
Willow - killed off when she became an evil witch
Giles - killed off when he became a demon
Angel - killed off when he lost his soul
Spike - killed off pretty much whenever
Dawn - killed off to prevent Glory from using her
Anya - killed off when she was killing frat boys
Oz - killed when he became a werewolf

The show and her circle of friends would be running quite thin rather fast, don't you think? 🙂
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Lol that is exactly the point I was trying to make in a different thread but thank you for filling in a new flanks 😀.

All though Giles was not a threat, just his appearance - at least for awhile 😛.
 
And as Xander wouldn't have been there to preform CPR on Buffy she would be dead as well!

Faith would have been killed too!

Cordy, Wesley, Tara, Joyce, Jenny and Riley are the 'regulars' that wouldn't have been killed of!
 
Originally posted by Allycat
And as Xander wouldn't have been there to preform CPR on Buffy she would be dead as well!

Faith would have been killed too!

Cordy, Wesley, Tara, Joyce, Jenny and Riley are the 'regulars' that wouldn't have been killed of!
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Actually Riley did have a chip cause he was going to be the next Adam (Confirmed by David Fury in commentary). So he was a threat too, die Riley! 😛
 
Lol, I want him too! The list looks so much better without him, I just wish there was a way to kill Cordy (at least Harm would die!)
 
Originally posted by WiccanWillow
As much as I'm going to get yelled at by all the Spuffyites for this, I don't think it was a very good move for Buffy to just shut the door in Giles' face, and make Spike be the hero of this episode...
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I don't think Spike came out as the hero of the piece; he was just the only one who managed to more or less work through his issues.

Clearly, Buffy and Giles still have a lot to work out, and it's questionable whether or not Wood will ever get any sense of closure about his mother.

Both Giles and Buffy had best intentions at heart. However, seeing as how Spike has been de-triggered, it seems that Buffy had the right idea.

One thing that was made blatantly obvious is that Wood is no where near the fighter that Spike is. Unless they can drag Angel out from LA, he's near irreplacable.
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Buffy should have let Giles talk instead of slamming the door in his face. She's also a little too soft on Spike. But Wood is a loose cannon and I agree with the way she treated him.
 
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