Angel and Buffy: The Age Difference?

[Amanda108]

I have no problem with the age difference, but I can relate to what I think is the reason people might see Buffy as a "girl" when it comes to Angel: She's more vulnerable- or at least can look that way- on matters of him. She can't think as straight and she's emotionally open. He's her first love and in a lot of ways she is just a teenager with him. But, I agree- it doesn't matter how it 'feels' to us; we can't have it both ways. Either you think she had to "grow up" young or you don't.

However, I don't see why there is a problem with him being attracted to her as a teen. The whole concept of "being a minor" is purely a legal issue at this point- not something a vampire is likely to care about. She is sexually mature physically, so attraction to her isn't perverted. In fact, I've always thought it sounds a little trivializing of real underage victims' problems (though I'm sure no one intends to do that; it's just how it always comes across to me) when people put Buffy in that same league or call Angel a pedophile.

On the issue of emotional maturity, I don't blame Angel (or Buffy, just so that's clear) for not putting a stop to things. His own emotional state at the time was hardly sound because he needed something to believe in, to hope for, so badly and Buffy was it.

 

[Wren Summers]

I just don't understand one thing. When we are talking about Buffy, in other threads, you all say she is strong, and that she had to grow up faster, but when it comes to Bangel you see her like she is a little girl? How come?

Because she acted her age when she was with Angel. A young, inexperienced, starry eyed, girl. It's not a bad thing on Buffy's part (or on any girl's). Her romantic relationships (Angel and one other brief guy...I think...) were her one place that she still remained innocent like in, to me, until Angelus appeared. After that she matured more emotionally, but she still kept a little of that same type feeling that she had before towards Angel, granted that she did mature in that area.

Over all, she just was young when it came to love. Someone can be mature in all areas and still be young when it comes to love.

---------- Post added at 01:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:25 AM ----------

Also, in regards to the main topic, the age difference really isn't a big deal in the sense that, Angel is 240 something year old vampire. No way Buffy is ever going to be "old enough" for him. Other than that, what bugs people really is the emotionally maturity issue. Angel was fully developed (in the age sense) while Buffy was still a teen, therefore, still growing. So that's what upsets people. In regards to Spike, Buffy was fully developed, again in the age sense, so therefore, it doesn't bug people. That's about it, yep. lol

 

[Summerlilly]

It's funny, but honestly I've never thought about the age difference between Angel and Buffy. I'm trying to think of a reason why....I guess because Buffy always seemed older than a 15 year old to me. When she first kissed Angel I wasn't really thinking, she's so young for him! I don't think we actually knew how old he was then but you could tell he was older than her.

First, this a tv show about vampires so we can bend the rules a little. Second, every relationship is different and every person matures differentley. (Buffy vs. Dawn) Third, it doesn't matter how old Angel is. He's freakin Angel. :whistle:

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

Because she acted her age when she was with Angel. A young, inexperienced, starry eyed, girl. It's not a bad thing on Buffy's part (or on any girl's). Her romantic relationships (Angel and one other brief guy...I think...) were her one place that she still remained innocent like in, to me, until Angelus appeared. After that she matured more emotionally, but she still kept a little of that same type feeling that she had before towards Angel, granted that she did mature in that area.

Over all, she just was young when it came to love. Someone can be mature in all areas and still be young when it comes to love.

---------- Post added at 01:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:25 AM ----------

Also, in regards to the main topic, the age difference really isn't a big deal in the sense that, Angel is 240 something year old vampire. No way Buffy is ever going to be "old enough" for him. Other than that, what bugs people really is the emotionally maturity issue. Angel was fully developed (in the age sense) while Buffy was still a teen, therefore, still growing. So that's what upsets people. In regards to Spike, Buffy was fully developed, again in the age sense, so therefore, it doesn't bug people. That's about it, yep. lol

Every woman who falls in love acts like she is 16. That first call, first date, then telling your friends about it, women who are over their 20 do that, and 16 years old girl do that. When it's about love you're always be a child. When she was with Angel, she was free, she was happy, and when Angelus came she know what she had to do. She didn't do at when she first had a chance, but who would? Could you kill one of the most important person in your life the day when he/she turns bad? You can say she was immature, only because love is immature. It plays with us, like a small child plays with it's toy. Torture us, and if we broke that's not it.. that's not our true love, and we have to move on. But she never ever really moved on, we see that when they are together in Buffy, and in Angel. Buffy was so mature, but in love, she was never, just like a normal person. Was she mature with Riley? Just listen to her how she talks to him. She did loved him, I belive that, just that wasn't big, that wasn't real. But everytime they were together she was sweet, and she talked that way. And why everyone see her relathionship with Spike so mature? Because we never saw that sweet thing, because she didn't admit to herself that she loves him, until season 7. Did she loved him. Maybe she did, maybe she didn't. It's all about how you see it, there is no right or wrong answear to this question.

 

[Wishing Oceans]

I just don't understand one thing. When we are talking about Buffy, in other threads, you all say she is strong, and that she had to grow up faster, but when it comes to Bangel you see her like she is a little girl? How come?

I wouldn't say that she's a little girl, but I also wouldn't say that she's a mature adult. Strong or not, I still think that she wasa sixteen year old girl, and although she had to grow up faster, she simply couldn't have been on the same level as Angel was regarding life when she was still so young, IMO. Although she may have had a wisdom beyond her years, I just don't consider that to be enough to make her an adult. She'd gone through a lot in her life, but I also think that a lot of that really began when Angel turned evil. She'd been forced to grow up many times. But until she turned about 21, like Season Six, I don't think that she really grasped the concept of being an adult. But then again, I'm 12 years old. What do I know about being an adult? 😀

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

I'm 16 and I don't know much of being adult, either. But when it comes to Bangel, the age difference just doesn't bug me, because I knew, and I belive that they loved each other. Maybe he had more experience, he was older, but he never realized what love is, until he met her. And they are same in this area, beginers in love. She showed him what love is, he showed that to her. You can first fall in love when you are 14, or when you are 25. Like he said in Earshot, in 243 years he only loved one girl. And in her 18, she was 18 then, she loved only one guy. They are same. It doesn't matter what he saw, or did. Love is love. And I don't think Buffy ever grew up, just like Giles said in his song, you are not ready for the world outside.

 

[white avenger]

It's always struck me as strange that there are a lot of people who really get freaked out about Cordy having sex with Connor, but still swear and bedamned that the age difference between Buffy and Angel (his human age when turned, not his age as a vampire) is perfectly alright. That's always seemed like another double standards to me, plus, it's always surprised me that the sensors ever let either one make it to the screen. (Of course, the sensors have gotten much more lenient since the days when the Captain Kirk kissing Lt Uhuru was considered new and controversial.)

 

[Flannen]

It's always struck me as strange that there are a lot of people who really get freaked out about Cordy having sex with Connor, but still swear and bedamned that the age difference between Buffy and Angel (his human age when turned, not his age as a vampire) is perfectly alright. That's always seemed like another double standards to me, plus, it's always surprised me that the sensors ever let either one make it to the screen. (Of course, the sensors have gotten much more lenient since the days when the Captain Kirk kissing Lt Uhuru was considered new and controversial.)

Well that's only true if that's the reason for every single person who got 'freaked out' by Cordy and Connor did so because of the age difference, which isn't necessarily true. For me, I hadn't even thought of the age difference until just now. I was more disturbed by the fact that I always saw Crody as a mother figure for Connor, and considering the nature of Angel and Cordelia's relationship at this time, I thought it was rather strange for her to then sleep with his son. I'm reading tons of Freud at the moment for my dissertation, and where I usually laugh at his Oedipul complexes, this is one that sets my alarm bells ringing 😛. That's what I felt strange about, not the age difference, which still doesn't pose a problem for me.

So I can see why it would be a double standard if it's true, but I don't think this is necessarily the case.

 

[white avenger]

Well, to be honest, I never saw Cordy as a "mother figure" to Connor until someone pointed it out to me, nor even as a step mother. I never saw Cordy and Angel in that kind of relationship either, for that matter (Sorry, Cangels) To me, and quite a few other fans, it was like all of these cases involving school teachers and their adolescent students.

 

[Flannen]

Well, I didn't see that relationship either, but there's no doubt that it was inferred. Just because we don't see it, that relationship was there.

I find it strange that you never thought of Cordy as a mother figure to Connor. I'm not saying it's blatantly or that at any point any character jumps up and says it, but the support that Cordy offers Angel when Connor is a baby - that was really blatant to me. School teacher and adolescent student however, that doesn't fit for me.

It's just another case of different interpretation, yet again. But it's still not a double standard. It would be if YOU thought one was ok and the other wasn't, because you've made it clear that that is where you stand. But not every single person in this thread who has said the Buffy/Angel age difference isn't a problem, has said that it was the age difference that freaked them out with Cordy/Connor. S'all I'm saying.

 

[Wesley]

Yeah the yuckiness of Connor and Cordy was definitely the Oedipal nature of the situation. She was the closest thing he had to a mother, she changed his diapers, made his bottles, fell asleep with him on the bed when he was a baby. Just completely and utterly gross. The age difference was not even a factor for me and I don't think for many. She was what... 24 (yes Charisma was 34) and they made Connor 18?


Although the whole Angel/Buffy thing is hard to justify (she was what... 14?) I wonder what Joss has to say about it. It was quite questionable. Trying to walk the fine line between 'admiration' and 'lust' or whatever. I mean I don't think Joss meant to imply Angel was a pederast but it sure seemed like it no.

 

[Kana]

Seeing the whole Cordy/Connor thing freaked me out but more from Cordy's perspective rather than Connor. Angel was at least Cordy's suitor so sleeping with the son, is kind of icky.

As for Buffy and Angel. Well I addressed this briefly in my thread: Bangel: On the Bubble? - Buffy-Boards

My issue is not with the age difference but Buffy's age. If Buffy had been 14 and Angel fell in love with her, would that have been ok? Where do we draw the line? If we state that age 14 would have been too icky (think Spike falling in love with Dawn in Season 5/6) then we have accept that 15-16 is borderline.

Some say that Angel was emotionally young when he fell in love with Buffy isn't a great defense for Bangel:

1: But Angel was emotionally a teenager when they fell in love?
2: Ok that's alright then, carry on.

I'm not saying it's wrong because frankly I can't relate to a 200+ vampire falling in love with a school girl. Still love my Angel boos though.

 

[Eleftheria]

I think in season 2 Angel was 241...right?He says himself in Reptile Boy...(not sure though) and Buffy is 16...well she is dating a 26 year old guy(technically) and they make love when she is 17...well ok i wouldn't suppport this if it wasn't real love...and besides i know many girls that were dating older guys...i don't think that is pedhophilia...Angel really loved Buffy...he was extremely attracted to her but he would never hurt her or force her to do anything...
and i have to agree with PrincessBuffy16 about many things

 

[ubi4soft]

About Buffy/Angel: Joss said at Paley 2008 Buffy reunion that it was "maybe illegal, but it was definitely love" and I'm taking his word for it, no question add

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

I agree. I must say I found Cory and Connor yucky, but not because of the age, but because of the characters they are. My friend is 16, and her boyfriend is 21. Does some people find it strange? Maybe. Do they love each other. 100%. And why would that be wrong? Only because he is 5 years older then her? It's not like he's 40. Illegal? Maybe to the people who doesn't understand love. Love is not illegal. Have you ever watched Ally McBeal? If not, try it. They have many cases about that theme.

 

[Eleftheria]

Also Angel never forced Buffy to do anything...in Surpise it was clear that Buffy loved him so much and she was equally loved back...that's why they consumated their relationship...it was because they loved each other so much...they couldn't stop...

IMO if Buffy didn't want to do anything with Angel,he would still care about her and love her,he wouldn't force her to do anything...

and about Connor and Cordy...the most disgusting couple ever...not because of the age difference but because of who they are

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

And yes, what Eleftheria said. Angel never forced her to do anything. In Surprise he was the one who said "Maybe we shouldn't".

 

[Eleftheria]

^ yeah and remember Buffy's words to Willow that morning in School in "Surprise"? that she may never feel that way again...and that she thinks Angel is the one...it is true love and it happened because Buffy wanted this

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

That was her choice. She thought that was the right thing to do, just like Angel thought leaving is. And they were right, because that was beautiful.

 

[Eleftheria]

^ i just love the words under your banner...really beautiful!yours?are they meant for Bangel?

we really seem to agree with many things PrincessBuffy!i am glad i find other Bangel fans and i am glad i joined this particular forum cause i have such wonderful and interesting conversations with all members!