Angel And Buffy

[white avenger]

I will qualify this in advance by saying that I still have not seen #34, but from what I have heard, Buffy and Angel appear to have both been studying the "Kama Sutra" very studiously ever since they parted company, and are now applying everything that they have learned. My question is, do you find all of this graphic lust and passion excessive and offensive?

As for myself, maybe I come off like some kind of prude, but I have always felt that some things are, or at least SHOULD BE, left more to the reader's imagination instead of being so graphically displayed, especially in a medium so easily accessible by younger readers.

(And for all of those cynical, suspicious people out there, I would have found it just as offensive if it had been Spuffy, Twillow, or any other ship, real or imagined)

 

[InsaneMystic]

I couldn't agree more. I already was uncomfortable enough with the Spuffy sex as displayed in S6, and the Briley sexathon in WTWTA - and from what I've heard, either of those were, as far as the visuals went, kid stuff compared to the graphics of this issue (which I've not seen, and would like to give a rain check on ever seeing, too, TYVM).

I'm not gonna argue that softporn were intolerable in any form (I'd be a hypocrite to say so, as yes, I admit that I do enjoy looking at pics of naked women); but giving softporn the honor of being part of the official canon of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" just feels wrong.

And indeed, not just because it's Bangel. Even though I won't deny that the Bangel aspect most definitely multiplies the yuck factor for me, a canonical Tillow or Frillow "Them F&%§ing" would still feel wrong and tasteless to me, no matter how much I'd like to fantasize about it in private.

Maybe they started realizing how grotesquely stupid the story is and try beefing it up with gratuitious and controversial nudity to up the sales. Sure, it's a tried and true media strategy, but it's a shame that a show we once (rightfully) praised as the best TV had to offer now flushes all its previous quality right down the proverbial toilet, in the most spectacular way imaginable.

Had it been like this on TV, none of us would be wasting their time talking about "that crappy porn show with the silly title and the vampires" years after it (in all likelihood) got cancelled after a half-season due to abysmal quality. ("Buffy-boards.com? Obscure sex site for pervy geeks, right? Wouldn't want to be caught dead signing into anything like that.")

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I agree. I thought the sex was complete overkill in the latest issue.

Some things should be left to the imagination.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

I do, I don't think it was ever them, it doesn't suit their relationship, they were always about Romance and love for me.

The sex was always a Spuffy thing, and It's one of the reasons I don't like Spuffy.

Sex doesn't equal love.

Most most hated scene in all of BtVS is that scene where she has sex with Spike in the bronze looking at her friends, it's horrible.

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

I think it's been in line with the series direction since Time of Your Life ended--stupid and unnecessary. Just look at Harmonic Divergence, and I liked Disharmony and Harm's Way.

 

[Eleftheria]

I certainly like romantic love-making scenes...not "Them F%^%ing". Great love is also indeed expressed through physical contact but yeah, it's much better if you don't show everything. I like Bangel the way it was portrayed in IWRY, where it was obvious that they couldn't stay away from each other anymore , but we also didn't get to see the whole..."procedure".:embarrassed: We could feel the passion, the tension, the love and it was all very beautifully made.I haven't seen the comic pictures yet, but I think Joss sometimes does far fetched things. If they want to sell more copies then they could create a different comic.

When I watched s6 I felt that they went too far. As BEG said, the Bronze is probably one of the worst scenes ever. And not just that, the whole feeling behind every meeting of them. In smashed, I got to feel that this "relationship" was all about control. Then in Dead things, I saw that she was being controlled both physically and emotionally.

Anyway, if they are going to use sex to increase the sales then they are getting out of control. I have said before, that some things, such as basic characters and their essential relationships, should be respected.

 

[Beaumonde]

"that crappy porn show with the silly title and the vampires"

You mean True Blood? (sw)

Anyway, I thought the sex in the issue was kind of funny, because all I could do was laugh at how ridiculous it all was. "Wanna try it flying?" 'nuff said.

I'm mostly offended by BtVS's name being attached to it.

 

[InsaneMystic]

I'm mostly offended by BtVS's name being attached to it.

And once again, a long winded post of mine gets boiled down to one sentence in a nutshell. :lmao:

 

[dan k]

I don't read the comics. I just can't see how they could compete with the quality of the television series. Also for me Buffy is Sarah Michelle Gellar, Angel is David Boreanaz etc, the comics see zero involvement from the cast, it just isn't Buffy for me. It isn't the show i loved.

 

[Stakesteak]

It definitely made me sad to see them do such damage to two of my favorite fictional characters; I'm kind of reminded of what they did with Cordy sleeping with Connor in S4 of Angel in terms of just how wrong it felt. The sex scenes between Spike and Buffy in S6 were awkward enough but this definitely ups the ante from overly risque to straight up porn. It really feels like a shameless plug for more sales as they could have been wayyyyy more tasteful and still have gotten the point across crystal clear.

 

[Buffy4ever2k10]

I will qualify this in advance by saying that I still have not seen #34, but from what I have heard, Buffy and Angel appear to have both been studying the "Kama Sutra" very studiously ever since they parted company, and are now applying everything that they have learned. My question is, do you find all of this graphic lust and passion excessive and offensive?

As for myself, maybe I come off like some kind of prude, but I have always felt that some things are, or at least SHOULD BE, left more to the reader's imagination instead of being so graphically displayed, especially in a medium so easily accessible by younger readers.

(And for all of those cynical, suspicious people out there, I would have found it just as offensive if it had been Spuffy, Twillow, or any other ship, real or imagined)

I wonder if the analsex was the taboo they would break. If it´s not what else could be described as a taboo and wasn´t in the show before?

A little off topic: I´m recallling the scene in the Bronze with Buffy and Spike on the balcony. Maybe she had analsex there too. Who knows? I never asked myself about her sexual life.

I´m not prude and sure it was graphical and all but it doesn´t really bother me. I don´t like the hilarious sexact and the orgasm in outer space. The no sound bubble was a nice joke but come on. Seriously? I expected imho a more realistic sexscene and crushing through mountains and floating around would be enough to show their act and the consequences but the spacesex and the new planet was to over the top. I hope they reverse the whole Twilight issue before it gets more and more ridicilous.

I feel like i´m torn apart. I liked the arcs before Twilight sure there were some weird parts like Dawn as a centaurette and the vampy cats but it was fun to read. And now we have the Twilight arc who is imo completly bogus and doesn´t make sense at all. I don´t know maybe i´m expecting to much and it will all make sense in the end. I´m just not sure it will satisfy me.

However i´m more concerned then ever about Buffy and her character. If they f*** her up i ´m getting really mad even if i don´t really care about season 8.

She reminds me a little of Jack Bauer in 24. Always fighting for the good side and never quitting but in the end you lose everything. Maybe it´s the best she ends up alone so nobody close to her has to die again. I don´t think Joss has a happily ever after for her.

If you are interested in a story about Buffys final days i strongly recommend "Stay". It´s a Spuffy fanfic about Buffys last months in her life. It´s heartbreaking and beautiful at the same time and the best story i´ve ever read. :cry3: If Joss wants to finish her off for good that´s the right way. I would love to see that in a comic.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

For a show like True Blood, the sex works on there, it's part of the look and feel of the show (thats an awesome show by the way)

Buffy wasn't, it was only like that with Spike.

Although I know I've said it allot about the Spike/Buffy scenes and so have others to, but it's never had this many people agreeing with it till now, when it's Buffy and Angel...

 

[Kean]

I've never had any issue with the actual sex that Buffy and Spike had, as in the sex itself didn't bother me but the emotional motovation behind it and the effect it was having on Buffy has always been the stickler for me. The fact that she was have all The Sex was never an issue. I feel the same about Buffy and Angel in #34, perhaps we didn't need to see all those positions and everything else, but I absolutely have NO issue with Buffy exercising her sexuality. I'm reluctant to go along with the idea that Buffy and Angel were only about the sweet, gentle romantic love...the scar on Buffy's neck and Angel's kitchen table both have something to say against that. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that I have absolutely no problem believing that Buffy and Angel would have the kind of sex that they had in #34. I do, however, understand why people would feel it was too much, but on the otherside it served to show a marked change in the Bangel relationship from what we have known, plus it was serving a purpose in the storyline to get to "Twilight". So I still don't think it was gratutitous, maybe it would have been better served a là¡ IWRY but I still don't feel it was exploitive.

 

[InsaneMystic]

Buffy4ever2k10 agrees: I love True Blood. The characters are fantastic and interesting and i´m german so sexscenes don´t bother me at all. 🙂

ROFL at your reasoning! I'm German too, but sex scenes still can bother me. Especially if there are men involved in them. 😛

 

[white avenger]

The irony of this to me is that I read an interview with Joss just before the first issue came out (I'm hunting it, and if it's still around, I'll post it for those who might be interested) where he said that he had very carefully selected the artists who would be involved, and made certain that they knew that he did not want there to be a "T and A" look to the illustrations. He didn't want Buffy to turn into another Wonder Woman or Gen 13 type book. Apparently he's changed his mind since then.

 

[LyteHouse]

The Buffy/Angel sex scenes just seemed like a cynical and unnecessary attempt at a sales boost.

It added nothing whatsoever to the story - its just fan-exploitation.

Reminds me of that silly lesbian-Buffy phase. Sales went through the roof for that issue didn't they? 😉

 

[Black Eye Guy]

To be honest, I don't think it was to boost sales.

Would people really go out a buy he comics because there are sex scene drawings of Buffy and Angel?

I've only read Runaways, Buffy and Joss's X-Men comics, but does anyone know is sex displayed in the same way in other comics.

Allot of the stuff they have to do, they have to get people that maybe didn't watch Buffy to buy comics too, and I think allot of the fans of the show kinda forget that because we may not be comic people.

 

[Kean]

The Buffy/Angel sex scenes just seemed like a cynical and unnecessary attempt at a sales boost.

It added nothing whatsoever to the story - its just fan-exploitation.

Reminds me of that silly lesbian-Buffy phase. Sales went through the roof for that issue didn't they? 😉

Totally disagree.

I don't know if sales went up (are the figures out yet?) but even if it was a marketing ploy (which again I stress, I don't believe it was) the sex still served a purpose in the story. It wasn't sex for sex sake, it allowed Buffy and Angel to move into "Twilight", whatever that means, I assume we will learn more next issue.

As for Satsu there was nothing silly or cynical about that relationship. Satsu was/is arguably one of Buffy's most trusted people. She loves Buffy and has clearly been a great companion for Buffy both as a slayer but also on a personal level. I think it is worth mentioning Sastsu would have provided Buffy a non-threatening re-intoduction to sex considering what happened with her last sexual partner. Not only that Buffy was extremely open with Satsu, told her where she stood and didn't play any games.

There is significant character development for Buffy in that relationship. It was in no way just some money making, attention seeking scheme.

Actually, I have to wonder, when has Joss ever put out a story that was secondary to the tales' progression? I think it is totally unfair to just throw the "it was for the sales" remark around.

 

[Krj2501]

I'll trend to agree with Kean - it's not about the sex - it about the emotions and passion behind it that count.

And while it the scenes may have been a bit excessive - as Kean also keenly pointed out Buffy & Angel's relationship has always been one of intense passionate in addition to it's deeply romantic nature.

Which is the reasons I find these scenes very understandable for their characters.

 

[Stakesteak]

While I certainly agree that there is a great deal of passion between Angel and Buffy, there's a difference between demonstrating that passion and pornography. There's a lot of websites I could visit and see people do the things that Buffy and Angel did in such graphic detail and I can guarantee you that love has nothing to do with what they're doing. There's a huge difference between romantic passion and going page by page through the kama sutra.

Buffy and Angel having sex served the purpose of furthering the story, there's not much question about that. Displaying it the way they did however was either a tasteless sales ploy, or just a bad attempt at depicting real love.