Angel and Buffy's Breakup

[CordelliasHeart]

am watching "PRom" First time right now, allready seen first season of Angel... am curious

How much of Angels decision to break up was about the Fear of losing his soul again.

Do you think he'd have reunited with Buffy if a way to permanently anchor his soul was found?

A weird idea ive had for a while, was that it would be most compelling if they needed to Remove his soul, before they tried whatever new binding spell to keep it from being lost in a moment of true happiness and bliss.

 

[white avenger]

Almost certainly, Angel would have tried to reestablish his relationship with Buffy if he had been able to do so safely. The biggest complication would have been that he would have had to abandon his mission of helping the helpless in LA if it were to be a complete return. Proba bly the best that they would have been able to have post Season 3, assuming that Angel would have somehow found a way to eliminate the escape factor in his curse, would have been short visits to each other's homes as often as their respective missions allowed.

That's just about all that I can comment on this subject without spoiling future episodes of both shows.

 

[marie21]

I think he also breaks up with Buffy because he wants her to have a normal life. With him, even if he had found a way of keeping his soul even after sleeping with her and having other moments of happiness, she wouldn't move on as well. All she can see in her future is being with him! but it's an illusion. She also has to think of her own future.
He's starting to think that the Mayor was right concerning Angel and Buffy's future. He still can't get in the sun. Furthermore, he has no purpose in life as well. Whenever I watch season 3 and even Season 2, I wonder about him since except for saving Buffy from time to time, he no job whatsoever...
I think the break-up is unavoidable, even though I am a big fan of this couple and I wish them to be together always.

 

[Yosso]

I personally don't buy the whole wanting Buffy to have a normal life excuse. She's the slayer, she never will have a life even resembling normal, Angel should know that. She spends so much time in the dark anyway fighting vampires - is the sunlight really that much of an issue? If she were a regular girl, then this would be more of a problem - but Buffy's slayer calling actually makes Bangel more compatible on paper. (not that I'm a fan - Spuffy all the way 😛)

The whole thing about them not being able to have children or have a future is a little premature really. Buffy's only 18! I'd understand this far more if Buffy were nearing her thirties and looking to settle down properly.

The irony is that Angel happily wants to get with Cordelia, despite all the same problems applying.

I think the primary reason he left is that he doesn't want to risk hurting Buffy again and to lose himself to Angelus.

 

[white avenger]

I personally don't buy the whole wanting Buffy to have a normal life excuse. She's the slayer, she never will have a life even resembling normal, Angel should know that. She spends so much time in the dark anyway fighting vampires - is the sunlight really that much of an issue? If she were a regular girl, then this would be more of a problem - but Buffy's slayer calling actually makes Bangel more compatible on paper. (not that I'm a fan - Spuffy all the way 😛)

The whole thing about them not being able to have children or have a future is a little premature really. Buffy's only 18! I'd understand this far more if Buffy were nearing her thirties and looking to settle down properly.

The irony is that Angel happily wants to get with Cordelia, despite all the same problems applying.

I think the primary reason he left is that he doesn't want to risk hurting Buffy again and to lose himself to Angelus.

I could never understand why Angel, if he really did want Buffy to have anything even resembling a normal life, and this goes for Spike too, no matter how much I support that ship, he didn't just leave ans STAY left. Instead, he sets up business in what was almost certainly Buffy's home town, located within driving distance of Sunnydale. I know, it was simpler for Joss to shoot the series in LA, but I'm talking about the Buffyverse, not the real world. I would think that the temptation to reunite would be just too much for the tew, as it, indeed, proved to be. If Angel had chosen to help the helpless in Seattle, or Chicago, or New York, or even in another country, it would have been much easier to resist the temptation of risking his soul again, especially if he never bothered to tell Buffy where he actually was.

Buffy and Angel shared a beautiful, but tragic love. They were Joss Whedon's own special Romeo and Juliet, and ed up.we know how that one ended.

Even if Angel's curse could somehow be eliminated, there would still be the factor of an immortal loving and trying to share the life of a mortal. At some point, it would just become impossible to preserve their relationship. The only viable alternative would be one or the other being killed while the other fought on, or them both dying together, and we're right back to that Romeo and Juliet thing again, which I, for one, never saw as that great a finale at all.

 

[Robb Stark]

I know for me, as sad it sounds, one of the alluring things about Buffy and Angel's love is that for all the reasons it should work, for all the reasons they're perfect for one another, and they are, it can't. Or at least, it can't right now.

And I think that has something meaningful to say. If "the world were as it should be", Buffy and Angel would be together forever, and one day that'll come, hopefully, but it isn't today. There's someone I'm a long way from, who I'd love to be with, and we both miss one another, but circumstances just don't allow it right now. It's sad, but there's something, I don't know, a bit comforting in that recognition.

 

[Kean]

You know, I don't think Angel would immediately seek Buffy out to restart their relationship if his soul was anchored. Certainly not after IWRY. It wouldn't be from a lack of love or longing. Personally, I think Angel dreams of a time where he and Buffy can be happy together, without any demons at their door. But there are miles to go before they sleep.

Circumstance and timing have always been the most basic impediments to Buffy and Angel being together. They both have callings, they both have important work that comes first. They both have missions. There isn't room for true love in that. Simply by being the people they are, they can't afford a love that conquers all. They can't afford to be with the person they would give it all up for. We've seen the consequences of that so many times with them. Buffy and Angel always work. But the timing never has.

So no, I don't think he would just pop back into Sunnydale and try to wedge himself into Buffy's life. There is work Angel has to do, and means to see it out. Love, as much as he wants it, is not for him at this time. But I firmly believe that when it is right. whether in life or death, there will be a time and a place for Buffy and Angel to be happy together.

 

[Yosso]

I could never understand why Angel, if he really did want Buffy to have anything even resembling a normal life, and this goes for Spike too, no matter how much I support that ship, he didn't just leave ans STAY left. Instead, he sets up business in what was almost certainly Buffy's home town, located within driving distance of Sunnydale. I know, it was simpler for Joss to shoot the series in LA, but I'm talking about the Buffyverse, not the real world. I would think that the temptation to reunite would be just too much for the tew, as it, indeed, proved to be. If Angel had chosen to help the helpless in Seattle, or Chicago, or New York, or even in another country, it would have been much easier to resist the temptation of risking his soul again, especially if he never bothered to tell Buffy where he actually was.

Buffy and Angel shared a beautiful, but tragic love. They were Joss Whedon's own special Romeo and Juliet, and ed up.we know how that one ended.

Even if Angel's curse could somehow be eliminated, there would still be the factor of an immortal loving and trying to share the life of a mortal. At some point, it would just become impossible to preserve their relationship. The only viable alternative would be one or the other being killed while the other fought on, or them both dying together, and we're right back to that Romeo and Juliet thing again, which I, for one, never saw as that great a finale at all.

Maybe Angel wanted to be far enough from Buffy to not risk the temptation to get back together, but also wanted to be close enough to help her out. Angel always did have this paternalistic protectiveness over Buffy even though the majority of the time she can take care of herself. Heck, maybe if Angel wasn't in LA but further away he may not have been able to get to Sunnydale to give Buffy the amulet in time. Without that she'd have been screwed.

Yes, the immortal/mortal contrast is always going to be an issue, but not for years and it certainly shouldn't be a reason to break up whilst Buffy is only 18. Nobody expects to find "the one" at 18 (unless they're delusional, no offence to anybody). Those that do are just lucky.

Again, I am glad that Buffy and Angel split up, but if I were one of them I wouldn't make the long term view that they won't eventually work out so prominent and strong a factor. Buffy and Angel could easily have a good 10-15 years (at least) of pained/passionate Romeo-Juliet love/angst before the whole immortal/mortal contrast really becomes an issue. That's a significant amount of time they could have had together. Even before that, I'd imagine the prospect of Buffy potentially wanting a child would be a factor that could cause friction before the immortal/mortal problem.

I know for me, as sad it sounds, one of the alluring things about Buffy and Angel's love is that for all the reasons it should work, for all the reasons they're perfect for one another, and they are, it can't. Or at least, it can't right now.

Why can't Buffy and Angel work now (assuming comic timeline?)? I'm assuming you mean it's because he's not human. So for you is the Shanshu prophecy the key to Bangel4eva?

You know, I don't think Angel would immediately seek Buffy out to restart their relationship if his soul was anchored. Certainly not after IWRY. It wouldn't be from a lack of love or longing. Personally, I think Angel dreams of a time where he and Buffy can be happy together, without any demons at their door. But there are miles to go before they sleep.

I agree, whilst a vampire the mission is too important to Angel, not only because it's a calling but because it gives him a purpose as a vampire with a soul. Rather than just being Buffy's lackey or moping as a tramp eating rats since the 70s he has his own purpose, his own independent mission. I think he values that greatly. The same way somebody's career gives them a sense of purpose and direction in life. This secondary reason adds to the main reason (potentially turning in Angelus) of why he is in LA.

I think Angel dreams of a time where he can be human with Buffy and grow old with her. But even so, maybe he'll think up another excuse why he shouldn't be with her - she'll get herself killed looking after him or something 😛

 

[Ethan Reigns]

There are only two ways this can work out:

1. Angel sires Buffy and arranges for her soul to be restored. Then they are both immortal (subject to the usual dangers of being a vampire, such as sunlight and the next slayer). I doubt a slayer would accept this.

2. The Shanshu prophecy comes true and Angel becomes a normal human. But as we have seen in I Will Remember You 1X08, Angel would become too much of a burden for Buffy. I understand that David Boreanaz himself once said the best way for it to end would be if the Shanshu prophecy came true, Angel reverted to human and was promptly run over by a bus.

There are all kinds of ways for it to not work out and having Angel move to LA is one of the more prudent ones. They have both shown that they can get on with their lives and have other mates, even though it always ends badly.

 

[fredthe3rd]

No one's mentioned the creepy age gap yet...

 

[Blaze]

No one's mentioned the creepy age gap yet...

I was actually going to make a thread on that. Like wtf am I the only one that is bothered by the fact that a 200+ year old guy is dating a 16 year old :S

 

[white avenger]

So no, I don't think he would just pop back into Sunnydale and try to wedge himself into Buffy's life. There is work Angel has to do, and means to see it out. Love, as much as he wants it, is not for him at this time. But I firmly believe that when it is right. whether in life or death, there will be a time and a place for Buffy and Angel to be happy together.

The best that I could imagine in the way of a future for Buffy and Angel, or Buffy and Spike, for that matter, would be something like the end of "The Ghost And Mrs Muir." That's just about the closest to a happy ending that they could have,

(For those of you who have never seen the movie...)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0YmK17iX90"]Ghost and Mrs. Muir - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Robb Stark]

Why can't Buffy and Angel work now (assuming comic timeline?)? I'm assuming you mean it's because he's not human. So for you is the Shanshu prophecy the key to Bangel4eva?

When I consider it, the Shanshu Prophecy is kind of the literal symbolization of what I was talking about. It's the literal "someday" for Buffy and Angel. They don't work "now" (and that's more of a proverbial now, as opposed to where we are in the comics) because of a range of factors, almost all of which have been discussed here.

No one's mentioned the creepy age gap yet...

I was actually going to make a thread on that. Like wtf am I the only one that is bothered by the fact that a 200+ year old guy is dating a 16 year old :S

This argument drives me insane. Buffy sleeps with Spike, numerous times, what? Two or three years later? In relative terms, that's absolutely no difference, and yet no one ever makes that case about Buffy and Spike. He's still 150 or something like that and she's around 20 or 21. In terms of how long Spike and Angel have lived, or unlived, that difference in age amounts to virtually nothing.

As someone who has been in a relationship with someone quite a bit younger than them, there's nothing wrong with it. Sure, the aesthetics are going to raise annoying questions, I've accepted that, but it was my feelings that dictated me dating someone younger than me. Sure, there's a limit, but by 17 or 18, Buffy has more than passed it.

 

[Blaze]

[MENTION=11975]Robb Stark[/MENTION], I think it's just as creepy with Spike, I just didn't bring it up in this thread as it was Angel related. I don't want to get too off topic here so I'll keep it short, basicly I really like both the Spuffy and the Bangel ship, but I have to kind of turn a blind eye on the age difference. In real life I'm completely fine with a 16/17 year old dating an early 20 guy, and once the person is 18 then it's there choice so again, not too bothered, but dam right I would be bothered if an 80yo guy dated a 16 year old girl. To me that's just wrong. Anyhow, it's unrelated to the topic now, and like I said, I just have to use my suspension of disbelief and picture Angel as being a mid twenties guy.

And if we technically go by mental age (as vampires seem to have an amazing brain that stays permanently stuck in the 20s mentality), that means that a vampire would have a brain in the absolute prime which is at about 25. Viewed that way I'm fine with it, still a bit weird to think Angel is so old though.

 

[TotallySpiked]

I kind of just pretend that Angel and Spike are at their human age the whole time. I mean, it's less creepy when you just take it that way; their physical being is stuck at that age so for me it's just a natural thing to do. I do know that they're older- but they don't look older and as mentioned above - sure don't act older either.

 

[marie21]

I also pretend that both Angel and Spike are as old in their minds and behaviour as when they were human before they were turned into vampires.
I've never thought much of Buffy and Angel's age difference mainly because Angel never acts like a 200 and + year old person, whenever he's with her. I don't think I would use the word "paternalistic". For me, he just acts like a protective boyfriend to me, nothing unusual about that.
I remember that in Halloween episode, the issue of age difference and dating an older boyfriend is raised but Angel clarifies things between them at the end of the episode by saying that women in his "old days" were extremely boring.
Plus, Buffy is particularly smart for a teenager of her age and her calling as a slayer makes her different, tougher and older than other teenagers. So I totally understand why Angel and Buffy have a strong connection despite their age difference.

I think the issue of immortality vs mortality is however what separates them. Although I cry a lot whenever I watch 'I'll always Remember You" episode in Angel, I know Angel's decision at the end makes full sense...

 

[Yosso]

There are only two ways this can work out:

1. Angel sires Buffy and arranges for her soul to be restored. Then they are both immortal (subject to the usual dangers of being a vampire, such as sunlight and the next slayer). I doubt a slayer would accept this.

Angel would be very much against this too. He is a self-hating vampire after all, he's not going to want Buffy to go through all the psychological angst that involves being a vampire with a soul.

2. The Shanshu prophecy comes true and Angel becomes a normal human. But as we have seen in I Will Remember You 1X08, Angel would become too much of a burden for Buffy. I understand that David Boreanaz himself once said the best way for it to end would be if the Shanshu prophecy came true, Angel reverted to human and was promptly run over by a bus.

There are all kinds of ways for it to not work out and having Angel move to LA is one of the more prudent ones. They have both shown that they can get on with their lives and have other mates, even though it always ends badly.

IWRY is very fuzzy in my mind, but you're right I do recall Angel's humanity being a burden.. Bangel can officially never ever work out then, unless the two of them just chill out a bit and don't take such petty, insignificant things like life and death so seriously.

Regarding the age difference issue, I think that vampires pretty much show that age is just a number and not a significant factor in the actual day to day functioning of a relationship. Like you guys have already stated, vampires certainly don't act geriatric (even though really they should - centuries of existence is bound to create the typical old person-esque cynicism about life..but maybe the fact that they're on the fringes of society makes their minds more youthful..) and they don't look old. Those are the two primary ways of identifying age - physical appearance and mannerisms. So I don't think the fact that Angel is 200+ is icky; it's not a fair comparison in human terms.

What is a fairer comparison is looking at the age Liam was when he was turned - I'm guessing 25? So yeah, that's kind of icky. But once Buffy's 18 it's all fair game.

 

[fredthe3rd]

Angel would be very much against this too. He is a self-hating vampire after all, he's not going to want Buffy to go through all the psychological angst that involves being a vampire with a soul.

What if there was a way of vamping her and almost immediately getting her soul back before she'd killed anyone or even said a mean word to her friends?

No angst?

 

[Yosso]

What if there was a way of vamping her and almost immediately getting her soul back before she'd killed anyone or even said a mean word to her friends?

No angst?

Less angst admittedly, but still some. More than enough for Angel not to agree to siring Buffy. She'd still lust for blood, especially initially while getting used to being a vampire. She'd also feel distanced from the Scoobies. Plus, I'd imagine it'd be majorly weird for a slayer to become an ensouled vampire - so that would cause issues.

Angel would never do it - he hates himself for being a vampire, so he wouldn't want Buffy to be one. He values humanity over being a vampire. This is probably the biggest reason Angel would never do it.

 

[white avenger]

What is a fairer comparison is looking at the age Liam was when he was turned - I'm guessing 25? So yeah, that's kind of icky. But once Buffy's 18 it's all fair game.

It might be noted that, in Liam's day, a 25 year old man marrying a girl 10 years or so his junior was quite common, even encouraged, assuming that the man had , by that time, achieved a certain degree of financial stability, if not prosperity, and the younger his new wife was, within reason, the better his chances of building up a large enough family to support him and his wife in their old age.

Buffy might have been jail bait in 20th Century California, but in Liam's time, she was of perfect marrying age.