Angel and communication

[Mylie]

I was inspired by @Taake post in the thread about our favorite character's flaws and thought it would be interesting to discuss one of Angel's flaws (or character traits).

I love him but he's really not a good communicator. Don't get me wrong, he's probably the best listened (along with Tara) in the buffyverse. But he rarely expresses his thoughts/feelings and he'd rather deal with his own problems than share them with other people.

On BtVS, I think part of it was the role he was playing, as a mirror to Buffy. The focus was always on her and her problems and he listened and helped if he was able to. But even on his own show, he rarely talks about himself or what's going on in his head. He doesn't talk about Buffy after the IWRY events (other than telling Doyle the basics of it and never touching the subject again), he doesn't talk about his dark phase (and obsession with Darla) once he's back with the fang gang, he doesn't talk about his reunion with Buffy in s6/s3, he doesn't talk about Cordelia much when he's having romantic feelings for her (it's always other people bringing her up and him not saying much), he doesn't talk about Connor after Home (which ok they don't remember him but this just shows how it's in his nature to deal with stuff by himself).

The 2 instances where I remember him talking about stuff that were very personal to him was Heartthrob where Cordelia MADE him talk about Buffy. He really didn't want to at first. And his talk with Wesley in Destiny after Spike beat him. He was very down and then he seemed a bit more open to talk. Other than that, I feel like he rarely opens up.

I get it, it's part of his character (and it something that makes him more interesting to me) but it must make connecting with other people even harder for him.

Of course there's also the issue of not talking to people about some of his big decisions but that's more often talked about so. 🙂

I don't really know what my point was. I guess I'd like to hear other people's thoughts on this.

 

[Puppet]

No, I absolutely agree, it's a trait of his that is there, but you can question if it's bad or not. Certainly it's a flaw, but again that doesn't necessarily make it a reason to be against Angel, to put it one way.

Angel has so many positive sides about him and I, admittedly, kind of enjoy this side to him. Some might call it part of his 'brooding nature' but I find that perhaps it simply has to do with how long (100+ years) he spent by himself. He obviously didn't speak to himself, that woulda made him even crazier than when he first gained the soul, so perhaps he just isn't used to opening up about himself. Or used to people wanting to know about him. It's sad, but could be true.

 

[Bite-me]

I felt like Angel was more self pitying, at times, then seeking redemption. We know Buffy is big on the guilt but Angel, I get the feeling I was not suppose to be thinking that he was feeling sorry for himself but often I did. So there is a flaw but at the same time I understand it, it makes sense, so not that big of a flaw it is unforgivable.

 

[Bop]

I don't see it as a flaw, it's quite endearing and funny that he's not really a people person and I think DB pulls off the awkwardness perfectly 😀
I find it very sad that Angel's had to live with no company for decades, it puts a whole bittersweet effect on when Angel used to be sitting around reading alone in his mansion. Poor guy 🙁
And just like anyone that isn't used to company and affection, Angel shuts people off and isn't too comfortable with opening up to people, just like Faith. But that's just part of what I love about Angel 🙂

 

[Mylie]

I just want to make clear that I don't really consider it a flaw as well (that's why I added character trait), it certainly isn't something that would make me not like him, on the contrary.

But most people do tend to see it as a flaw, just like being introverted.

I do think it probably makes it harder for him to connect to people but who knows, maybe the result would be the same anyways.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

Don't forget, Angel spent 100+ years in hell between BtVS Season 2 and 3 when he was sucked into hell by Acathla for reasons completely out of his control. He was as insane for a while in Season 3 as Spike was after getting a soul in Season 7. I could easily believe PTSD for Angel with the understanding that no one can be "talked out of it". The danger of not being in control and the uselessness of talk in the face of crippling PTSD combined to make sure that communication was just a buzzword and not something that was of any use.

 

[EarthLogic]

Don't forget, Angel spent 100+ years in hell between BtVS Season 2 and 3 when he was sucked into hell by Acathla for reasons completely out of his control. He was as insane for a while in Season 3 as Spike was after getting a soul in Season 7. I could easily believe PTSD for Angel with the understanding that no one can be "talked out of it". The danger of not being in control and the uselessness of talk in the face of crippling PTSD combined to make sure that communication was just a buzzword and not something that was of any use.

Not just the 100 years in hell - I'd imagine that upon being reensouled, the memories of all the horrors he has inflicted would also leave him with a kind of PTSD. I think that's another reason he has difficulty talking about it - apart from those who experienced what he did as Angelus when in Sunnydale, there's really no-one who can ever truly understand the extent and depth of his historical crimes. Wesley can read everything ever written down about them but that won't even brush the surface. There's just no point in sharing because these things defy articulation. Language becomes useless because at times all he hears, knows and remembers are the screams.

 

[Fool for Buffy]

If Angel could communicate that would make his character way less entertaining. One of the best things about Angel is that he acts like he has it all together when really he is truly vulnerable. But he needs the attitude that he doesn't need to talk about his feelings. He shouldn't need a shoulder to cry on. He has to be the shoulder to cry on. If he is always going to people with his problems, how is he going to solve everyone else's? And how is he going to make life altering decisions if he always talks to people about them first? Not to mention the fact that if he talked about things that bothered or hurt him he would never be able to stop talking.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

The storytelling advantage with Angel not communicating is that he can make sudden unexpected moves that alter the path of the story significantly. Firing everyone at Angel Investigations? Getting Darla pregnant? Locking the Wolfram & Hart best and brightest in the wine cellar with two vampires? Joining Wolfram & Hart as CEO of the Los Angeles office? Killing the Drogyn to join the Circle of the Black Thorn? The obliteration of the Circle of the Black Thorn?

This kind of screenwriting is exciting, like a boxer who does not telegraph his moves and leaves you wondering what he will do next. Every once in a while, the story needs a good shock (like he delivered when he revealed to Buffy the first time that he was a vampire) to keep the viewers interested. What does not work in storytelling is consensus-building of the type you would use in a real corporation because there is no drama in getting people to agree unless it is a story about a hard case (like a jury) where opinion appears to be split and the drama is in driving it together.

 

[Mrs Gordo]

Oh yea...Angel is great at many things but no one is likely to be calling him the great communicator any time soon! LOL. I agree with you @Mylie it is certainly character trait of his. Its understandable given his background and his personality as an introvert but it can be frustrating nevertheless! But its an endearing part of his character at times.

 

[white avenger]

But even on his own show, (Angel) rarely talks about himself or what's going on in his head.

One might say, "Don't trouble yourself worrying about what Angel is thinking. He doesn't do it very often, anyhow."

But, seriously, I think that Angel was supposed to be a terribly introverted personality, due to his living basically in seclusion for a century or more, perfecting his brooding technique. That doesn't lead to the most bubbly, outgoing character.

 

[crazysoulless]

Overall it is the guilt of having the body and first hand memories & emotions of an evil thing that tortured, raped, and murdered scores of people mixed with living in isolation and a depressive state for so long he started to atrophy.

But I also think it is the demon essence.

Buffy said she feared being a Slayer was turning her to stone. Affecting her ability to connect, to feel. Losing her humanity.

When Giles suggested she go on a quest she asked "a quest? Like finding a grail or something?" It makes me think of Angel and the Shanshu. It's his holy grail. Being divinely forgiven and becoming human.

In Retreat, Buffy said being human felt different. In IWRY, Angel felt different. Pain, taste, sensations, it all gets filtered in correlation with your species. As a Slayer and a vampire, they have a strong bloodlust, an affinity for violence, and a high tolerance for physical pain. Sometimes they are primal, giving in to their instincts, reflexes, and an inner darkness that keeps the evil hyena just under the surface.

In many ways Angel is similar to Castiel and the angels from Supernatural as well as the 1998 movie City of Angels and the 1987 movie that inspired it Wings of Desire.