Angel And His Pesky Soul

[white avenger]

If the "one moment of complete happiness" clause had never been a part of Angel's curse, what do you think would have been his motivation for leaving the show after Season 3, since, obviously, he had to have a reason to move over to his own show the next year?

 

[Kean]

Well, if the clause wasn't part of his soul, than it would have been a very different show. The majority of S2 would have been different, and in turn each subsequent season. Every relationship on the show would be different. In fact, the very reason Joss came up with an idea for the spin off was because of an episode that is firmly based within the narrative of Angel loosing his soul.

If the clause doesn't exist then Buffy the Vampire Slayer is a whole different world.

 

[Xin Rong]

Angel didn't just leave because of his soul losing issue, in fact, if memory serves that particular issue doesn't feature in the conversation between Joyce/Angel that ultimately leads to his decision to leave?

I think he would have always left, but maybe at a later point without the 'perfect happiness clause, as he was still a vampire and would have held Buffy back from any chance of a normal life.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

Yeah I'd say he wouldn't have left.
He'd probably have remained in the BtVS cast. Without that clause everything changes.

If they'd gone another route and still turned Angel evil and still realised David was too goo to not have his own show he'd still have left for the same reasons.
Staying was selfish, he wasn't just keeping her from sex, a relationship with a vampire is selfish for the vampire, one sided. He wants Buffy happy before he wants himself happy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Kean]

I wouldn't say its inherently selfish, not if it is what the human partner wants. I think the issues within their relationship was only part of the reason Angel left, mostly I think he did it because he felt the pull within himself to do more. I stand by what I said earlier that if the clause didn't exist it is a totally different show, but I think even then if Angel was to leave BTVS, it would come back to that pull to be and do more.

I think if the clause hadn't been a factor we would have seen Buffy and Angel become incredibly close. The clause kept them out of reach of each other but without that they would be free to build on that intimacy that came so naturally to them. However, I do think that some aspects of Angel's story that we saw in AtS may be introduced earlier e.g. his history, in particular Darla. Perhaps the First would take a different kind of interest in him? Perhaps he would had have to kill Drusilla in S2 and that sent him in a tail spin? Or Buffy starts college, Riley shows interest in her and then questions start being raised about what they really want, maybe Maggie captures Angel and studies him.

There's so many possible ways it could have gone.

 

[Doppelgang]

Angel not being able to have one moment of true happiness was a crucial part of his suffering as a vampire turned good. Although within the story it was due to a curse, the curse is really metaphor for how a person in real life would make themselves suffer and refuse themselves happiness due to bad things they have done in the past. As feeling they don't deserve such happiness. So it comes into the very meaning of Angel's character to my mind, so its difficult for me to imagine the soul without the curse.

 

[Kean]

Angel not being able to have one moment of true happiness was a crucial part of his suffering as a vampire turned good. Although within the story it was due to a curse, the curse is really metaphor for how a person in real life would make themselves suffer and refuse themselves happiness due to bad things they have done in the past. As feeling they don't deserve such happiness. So it comes into the very meaning of Angel's character to my mind, so its difficult for me to imagine the soul without the curse.

Not necessarily. Angel knew nothing about the clause in the curse until the night he slept with Buffy. That was January 1998, he was cursed in 1898. In those hundred years he was isolated and rejected from the human world and demons worlds, he was wracked with guilt and tormented by what he had done. The clause had nothing to do with that, that was just the soul.

 

[Silverspike]

Well Angels curse seems to be 'managable' sometimes.

Thats why I loved dear old Wesleys advice in season 5.

The ladies are right.
(sits in a chair)
Nina's down there right now, turning into a werewolf and liking me. I don't"”can't"” I have no time for that kind of"” I have no right. I mean, look, we all know what happens if"”

WESLEY
(shakes his head)
If what? If you achieve a moment of perfect happiness?

ANGEL
I turn back into Angelus, and we don't want that.
(Wesley scoffs)
What?

WESLEY
99.999-ad infinitum percent of the best relationships in the recorded history of the world have had to make do with acceptable happiness.

ANGEL
Look, Wes"”

WESLEY
(stands, throws his hands up, paces)
Hiding behind your gypsy curse when there's a beautiful, engaging"”all right, occasionally hirsute"”young woman who actually wants you?

ANGEL
Wes, it's not gonna happen.

WESLEY
Why?

ANGEL
(stands, emphatic)
Because I'm not that guy. That guy is charming and funny and... emotionally useful. I'm the guy in a dark corner with the blood habit and the 200 years of psychic baggage.

WESLEY
Get over it!

ANGEL
Why are you yelling at me?

WESLEY
Because!
(softer)
Angel... if there's a woman out there... who you find truly attractive, who you think about, let's say, most of the time, who represents even part of what you think makes the world worth fighting for and who doesn't view you as an entirely sexless shoulder to lean on...you have to do something about it.

ANGEL
Who are we talking about here?

 

[Kean]

Yes, being with Buffy showed him that he didn't have to be cut off from the world and that led him to find a purpose, which eventually led to a life where "regular" happiness could occasionally be part of it. But it took Buffy and their relationship, as well as a firm push from the powers,for him to learn that.

But the clause still stands, if Angel was to feel perfect happiness again, he would lose his soul. It just seems unlikely that he could ever feel that way again.

 

[The Bronze]

Well Angels curse seems to be 'managable' sometimes.

Thats why I loved dear old Wesleys advice in season 5.

I've always thought that was dreadful advice. Sure there's no guarantee that Angel will ever feel perfect happiness again but that doesn't mean it's a good idea for him to push his luck. Angel made a good and courageous decision to leave Buffy. It obviously wasn't what he wanted but it was in her best interests and sensible for safety reasons. His reasons for leaving hold true for not starting a relationship with anyone else. While the curse remains in place it's simply too dangerous for Angel to start a relationship.

 

[Silverspike]

Oh I dunno. If in this universe Angel can only be triggered by getting down with Buffy, and as Wes said most people don't experience that 'perfect' happiness, then why not.

Although come to think of it It would make one night stands very interesting If he really did hit it off with someone. 😀

 

[white avenger]

Oh I dunno. If in this universe Angel can only be triggered by getting down with Buffy, and as Wes said most people don't experience that 'perfect' happiness, then why not.

Although come to think of it It would make one night stands very interesting If he really did hit it off with someone. 😀

And apparently he actually did "hit it off" with someone, at least enough to provide her, her sister, and he niece with transportation out of Los Angeles before his big confrontation with the Senior Partners, and even further, promise to meet her there after the battle. I would say that he hit it off pretty well with Nina after their one night stand.

But the original question was, what excuse would there have been for Angel to leave town after Season 3. He had his own spin off beginning the next fall, so hanging around, even for a few episodes in order to make his proper goodbyes would have been difficult to say the least.

 

[Doppelgang]

Not necessarily. Angel knew nothing about the clause in the curse until the night he slept with Buffy. That was January 1998, he was cursed in 1898. In those hundred years he was isolated and rejected from the human world and demons worlds, he was wracked with guilt and tormented by what he had done. The clause had nothing to do with that, that was just the soul.

Maybe he knew something on a sub-conscious level? Obviously we can never know that, and I am reaching a bit there for a psychological explanation. But still I think in certain cases you could imagine how part of being given a soul back, due to the burden of conscience for the acts he did would in itself make him incapable of having a true moment of happiness from that time on. Like someone scarred by a traumatic event not able to dissociate from it. In the particular story arc of Angel this is not the way it is stated or shown to happen on the explicit level. But it could be a motivating or guiding theme somewhere initially in the background when they were coming up with the original ideas for the characters. Anyway, it is only speculation and moving off topic, so I won't pursue it any further. I need to give it some more thought myself anyway 🙂

 

[Kean]

Maybe he knew something on a sub-conscious level? Obviously we can never know that, and I am reaching a bit there for a psychological explanation. But still I think in certain cases you could imagine how part of being given a soul back, due to the burden of conscience for the acts he did would in itself make him incapable of having a true moment of happiness from that time on. Like someone scarred by a traumatic event not able to dissociate from it. In the particular story arc of Angel this is not the way it is stated or shown to happen on the explicit level. But it could be a motivating or guiding theme somewhere initially in the background when they were coming up with the original ideas for the characters. Anyway, it is only speculation and moving off topic, so I won't pursue it any further. I need to give it some more thought myself anyway 🙂

The show gives the most clear and succinct explanation for why Angel felt the way he felt once his soul was returned to his body: "You have no idea what it's like to have done the things I've done... and to care."

Angel reacted to having his soul returned they way he did for any number of reasons, including: visceral memories of his hands killing, maiming and destroying lives and the regret, guilt and agony that caused him; the total isolation he felt, not belonging anywhere, and the the knowledge that he had no reason to believe that the next hundred years of his life, the next thousand, wouldn't feel exactly the same. Angel was the first of his kind, a vampire with a soul, he had no idea what he could be other than a worthless piece of crap vampire. Until Whistler. Until Buffy.

The show is explicit on the matter of the clause and who knew about it. Angel absolutely didn't, Jenny didn't even know. The only person we saw on screen who knew about the happiness clause was Jenny's uncle.