Angel and Spike: flaws and virtues

[NightLady]

Inspired by a question made in another thread by @bespangeled I'm going to ask you to think rationally at these two characters (Angel and souled Spike!) and list flaws and virtues for each one. Examples are appreciated.

p.s. I'm a bit in a hurry so go first, I'll say mine later 😀

 

[Buffy Summers]

Before this gets started, I would like to remind everyone that this is about the CHARACTERS not the FANS so anything off topic will be deleted or the thread will be closed. Thank you!

 

[bespangeled]

This is a really interesting question. Gonna need to ponder but for a first impression I would say that both Spike and Angel take qualities they always had and turn them toward good. Angel solves problems using most of the skill Angelus used to create problems. A fantastic example is cutting Linwood and making him Connor's unwilling godfather. Spike still follows his blood, jumps into a situation not knowing all the variables - going after Dana is a great example of that. He also has intuition which he can use as a weapon or as a caretaker.

 

[janas]

Let's see what they say Spike and Angel of their respective flaws

Angel's lame. His hair sticks straight up and he's bloody stupid.
And your hair, Captain Peroxide? What color do they call that? radioactive?

Virtues later... perhaps, there's always time for the virtues.😛

 

[EVIL UU]

I think that their virtues are pretty similar. They're both heroic and steadfast in their heroism. They're willing to use their immortality and powers to fight evil. To be honest, it's not something I'd personally choose to do - I'd stick to hanging out with vampire erotica obsessed teenagers, loud music and video games. Yes, I'm basically Harmony, deal with it.

Angel's flaw is his raging paternalism. Angel still thinks and perceives the world like an asshole from XVIII century which is especially ridiculous considering the importance and prevalence of powerful women in his universe.

Spike's flaw is his clinginess or rather his almost comical, considering his rebel persona, need for validation. The women he loves, the idols he worships - like a sad puppy Spike wishes to be petted. Spike wants to belong, wants to fit in, even with the people who initially loathe him.

 

[Blaze]

Angel's flaw is his raging paternalism. Angel still thinks and perceives the world like an asshole from XVIII century which is especially ridiculous considering the importance and prevalence of powerful women in his universe.

Spike's flaw is his clinginess or rather his almost comical, considering his rebel persona, need for validation. The women he loves, the idols he worships - like a sad puppy Spike wishes to be petted. Spike wants to belong, wants to fit in, even with the people who initially loathe him.

I don't think that's a coincidence, since Angel basically is Spike's "dad". It fits. Spike has always sought validation, Angel always wanted to be the leader, put the two together and it just makes those trait even stronger.

 

[bespangeled]

I don't think that's a coincidence, since Angel basically is Spike's "dad". It fits. Spike has always sought validation, Angel always wanted to be the leader, put the two together and it just makes those trait even stronger.

But Angel was definitely the big swingy swaggering before Spike came along - and Spike was begging for validation from Cecily just before he met Dru. I like what happens once they meet when Spike has decided he values negative attention as much as positive attention. The thing about those two together is they both know where the buttons are because they both installed them.

 

[Mr Trick]

Yeah I think they are both very brave in their own ways and have strong beliefs and priciples. No matter whether they are good or not that is always a good quality to have.

Would say that Angel takes himself too serious, but then again that can provide some good entertainment too😀

Spike has more of a distinct personality I think. Will have to have a think about this😎

 

[jom]

Angel they guy who has it all, who's every door opens just by showing up. He shows up in sunnydale and without courting Buffy, she falls inlove with him. He goes to LA, and becomes the prophesied vampire which evil incorporated doesnt want to kill and ultimately makes him the CEO of the most powerful evil company in LA. As i said, the guy just have to show up. I dont know if those things are a virtue or a flaw but he sure is a lucky bastard.

Spike, well he's the guy who has to work/fight for every crumb he gets and sometimes he likes it that way. He has to fight for his soul, he has to fight for the love of Buffy, he has to fight for his jacket🙄, basically for everything. The guy has a ship on his shoulder and in his head, he wants to prove that he is worthy, that he is great, especially in comparison to Angel. Spike is the guy who falls in love, he believes in love. Love is the ultimate ruler of his life. He can be the ultimate evil but if he falls in love, he will change and do everything for that love, he is indeed love's bitch. Spike redemption road lacks a bit, he's not very good at showing atonement for past evil deeds unless it is connected to love, love's bitch, and even there he falters. The initial aftermath of the attempted rape should had crushed him and instant crushing atonement from him should had been shown to his victim. The slayer jacket, he should had offered it to her son after justifiably beating the crap out of him, he can be excused a little there, he was fighting for his life.

 

[SiegePerilous02]

Angel: He's emotionally weak and cowardly at times, incredibly brave and insightful in others. Sees the world in shades of gray, is generally willing to give people second chances, and always takes in strays and gives them a purpose within his group without judging them. His big picture mentality is both a strength and a weakness, because his well meaning decisions that he makes for others can have negative drawbacks. His chivalry, while also well intentioned, sometimes leads to him having an unintentional condescending attitude towards "damsels in distress" which Cordelia points out to him in "Billy." As a reformed serial killer, he falls back into old habits which are impossible to break completely, but always sets himself back on the right path again. His conviction can also be scary as hell, which establishes that he has an edge even when he has a soul. Whether that's good or bad is up for debate (I think it's both), but regardless, it's incredibly interesting.

Spike: Unlike Angelus, soulless!Spike can harbor warped affection for a select few individuals, though this doesn't erase the fact that he views everyone else as potential victims/food. He's generally short sighted, and can't see much beyond his own desires or what he feels are the desires of his current love interest. His mother complex makes him needy, and when those needs aren't met, he expresses quite a misogynistic attitude, both with and without a soul. Unlike Angel, he hasn't relapsed into his old serial killer ways and shows no signs of temptation, though your mileage may vary about whether that makes him more interesting or not. Views himself as insightful and is quick to point out the flaws in others, but rarely if ever turns that insight in on himself.

 

[jom]

I think that their virtues are pretty similar. They're both heroic and steadfast in their heroism. They're willing to use their immortality and powers to fight evil. To be honest, it's not something I'd personally choose to do - I'd stick to hanging out with vampire erotica obsessed teenagers, loud music and video games. Yes, I'm basically Harmony, deal with it.

Angel's flaw is his raging paternalism. Angel still thinks and perceives the world like an asshole from XVIII century which is especially ridiculous considering the importance and prevalence of powerful women in his universe.

Spike's flaw is his clinginess or rather his almost comical, considering his rebel persona, need for validation. The women he loves, the idols he worships - like a sad puppy Spike wishes to be petted. Spike wants to belong, wants to fit in, even with the people who initially loathe him.

If you would tell me that you are a psychologist that actually treated angel and Spike, i might believe you. your post is very good, even on Angel.

Angel for me is difficult to describe or perceive. He's a machiavellian and a bit of a narcissist but he confuses me at times.

Spike on the other hand is exactly like you say. He is needy, he's like a child that wants acknowledgement from others.

 

[KatPratt]

It has been said but they do share some good qualities, bravery, determination, resolve, inelegance, that sort of thing then as individuals Spike's ability to love, he knows when to let loose and have fun, knows there is no point in dwelling on things he can not change but wants to make the future better, also has an emotional inelegance can tell what makes people tick.
Angel can see the potential in people, even when others don't and when he believes in someone you want to also, still believes in family even having lost what he has, his sense of humor while subtle is something I don't think people give him enough credit for, the way he goes out of his way for the people that he cares about.
Their faults, well Spike's insecurities get the better of him and sometimes he can be so desperate for attention that he even goes looking for negative attention. His impatiens and recklessness catch up with him, his temper too he gets hurt and angry and can't see a situation clearly any more. The competitive streak he has with Angel.
Angel, well his ego is a major problem and the way he isolates himself when brooding, and he has to have a purpose to the point when he looses it he can get very dark, they way he sometimes looses focus on said purpose. The competitive streak he has with Spike.
Oh my boys how I love you both