Angel and the greats...

[Gum Gnome33]

In another thread, someone brought up Angel's past interactions with some of the greatest artists of all time. Indeed, several times in Ats he proudly references those encounters, (I think the Rat Pack is in there too).
It got me wondering: where did all of that fit in, in Angel's timeline? As Liam, I think those kind of encounters were extremely limited if they ever occurred at all. As a newly ensouled vampire, before Whistler and Buffy come around, it seems as if Angel resists interacting with much of humanity as he is suffering and greatly confused, (see "Orpheus" and "Becoming" for examples). Does that mean that the encounters he's referencing mostly occurred when he was evil? We know that he used to frequent Diaghilev's Ballet Russe in Paris when he was Angelus. It might be fun/interesting for us to imagine what that might have been like.
Certainly, when the Rat Pack was around, Angel had a soul. Do we think that he did sometimes "get out" and mingle? In Vegas? Or is that mostly a continuity error?
Help a girl out: what do you guys think?

 

[ladydorotea]

I tried to answer in the original thread using references to a few Angel episodes.

PS

It is sort of a different topic, but I had a long exchange with Allie once - RE: Angel and his disposition. What intrigued me most was that Allie ( and apparently Joss) view Angel's personality as closest to that of Giles.

 

[Gum Gnome33]

^^^Just thought I'd start a new topic considering we were getting off topic in the old thread.

You referenced the fact that Angel seems lucid/at home in the late 30's/40's and 50's which is something I'd overlooked. But it always seemed to me that while Angel could be lured out of his state in the name of helping others, I didn't think he could really be inspired to mingle and hob-nob with the great names--not during that time in his life.

Angelus could, certainly. I wonder who he encountered at the ballet, and if he refrained from eating them in order to have a productive conversation or exchange of ideas? I really wish we'd seen this in a flashback...

 

[ladydorotea]

I didn't think he could really be inspired to mingle and hob-nob with the great names--not during that time in his life.

Well, he is quite good at drawing - he had to pick it up somewhere? Take lessons maybe or just observe other artists at their chisels? Meaning he had interests other than rats and sewers long before Whistler. My impression was that he was hanging out not with entire crew of Impressionists but with a particular artist, who had a crush on him or was a friend - and that is how he got mixed up with Impressionists. ( I just saw a Degas exhibit this weekend, I can imagine Angel hanging around the chisel and making noises.) Same as he got involved with Hyperion and the guests crowd because he was trying to help the African American girl in trouble.

 

[VisionGirl]

I tried to answer in the original thread using references to a few Angel episodes.

PS

It is sort of a different topic, but I had a long exchange with Allie once - RE: Angel and his disposition. What intrigued me most was that Allie ( and apparently Joss) view Angel's personality as closest to that of Giles.

Oh, I really want to hear more about this!

 

[ladydorotea]

Oh, I really want to hear more about this!

Ah, well, that was in private email exchange, and was heavily in the context of the S8 ending and S9 continuation. Suffice to say, that after sparring a while over the 'it is important who kills them' clause, I got that enigmatic reply from SA (according to Joss) 'these two are the most alike in both shows' and was very much puzzled over what it was supposed to mean - until the latest installment of A&F #4.

Btw, today I saw Mark's review of Dark Ages.

http://markwatches.net/reviews/2012...-vampire-slayer-s02e08-the-dark-age/#more-829

It is, IMHO, interesting that innocent newbie watching the show for the first time picked up all the vibes that reflect Giles and Angel alike-ness.

“Rupert hasn’t been through any trauma recently,” I thought. (I often think much about the trauma that I cause humans that I have created. Oh, what am I doing? You already know that! Silly me!) How can I change him? How can I tell a story by causing him physical and emotional pain? How much can I melt the minds of the people who have grown to love him?

It had taken me some length of time to come to any sort of conclusion. Rupert was already lonely enough. Should I risk making him more so? Of course the answer was a resounding YES, and I suddenly felt a new burst of energy within me. I was renewed by these thoughts of destruction.

What if, I told myself, Rupert Giles had a morally disgusting past that came back to affect his friends and his girlfriend so negatively that it had the potential to alienate all of them from ever hanging out with him again? What if that were true? I thought. How could I use this to make the story of Rupert Giles more depressing?

and so on and so forth. and I laughed myself silly when reading this - but also thought how repetitive some of Joss' twists are - there was so much of a S8 ending vibe here... on a bigger scale.