Angel ep by ep; (Hey kids, it's...) SMILE TIME!

Personally, I think Smile Time is supposed to be ironic. It's clearly criticizing children's television (likening it it a molester that steals the child's soul) while at the same time, being a television show...yeah.
This was a very innovative episode. No show had ever attempted this before. Even though it was a bit bizarre, I think it's clear what the episode was trying to say; working at Wolfram and Hart had made Angel into a puppet, figuratively.
 
Personally, I think Smile Time is supposed to be ironic. It's clearly criticizing children's television (likening it it a molester that steals the child's soul) while at the same time, being a television show...yeah.
This was a very innovative episode. No show had ever attempted this before. Even though it was a bit bizarre, I think it's clear what the episode was trying to say; working at Wolfram and Hart had made Angel into a puppet, figuratively.

Totally love Joan's take on this. Especially after the white room is gone & Eve is gone, so they have no idea what the SP are up to.

I love this ep. I think it's hilarious, esp Spike's reaction & their "fight". I really think this could've only worked on Angel. I don't see them being able to do this on Buffy. I just think the characters on Angel poke fun at themselves more (Angel's insecurities, quips about his hair & weight, Cordy's obsession with her boobs in Spin the Bottle, & Fred's dismay at not having any LOL), which is interesting since it's considered the darker show.

Lorne's quote is hilarious: "Dr., medic, is there a geppetto in the house!"
I also laughed pretty hard with Puppet Angel is trying to work the remote: "Stupid, plastic, piece of crap!" Sounds like something I would say when I'm getting annoyed at technology!

I was just reading that this ep aired right after the decision was made that this was the final season. I find that so interesting because not only was it a great & innovative episode, but it makes fun of itself with the "jumping the shark" gag (last 2 years of Happy Days).

I wasn't a huge Nina fan previously, but she does look hot here, is likeable, looks great semi-nude, and I can now see the chemistry between her & Angel. She does still lack depth though, IMO.
 
Lorne's quote is hilarious: "Dr., medic, is there a geppetto in the house!"
I also laughed pretty hard with Puppet Angel is trying to work the remote: "Stupid, plastic, piece of crap!" Sounds like something I would say when I'm getting annoyed at technology!

I love the remote joke and though puppet Angel cracks me up most of the time I've never understood the love that Lorne line gets. I guess I never found it that funny, too on the nose kind of.
 
Do any of you guys with kids let them watch this episode? I think mine would find Puppet Angel hilarious, so I'm considering letting them watch it with some serious editing: I find the kids touching the screens with the puppet moaning to be disturbing, & I think evil puppets are kind of creepy, so I might just let them watch the part with Angel at W&H, especially the fight with Nina and Spike.
 
Update: I did let them watch it today, parts of it anyway. The 9 year old, surprise-surprise, loved ""Stupid, plastic, piece of crap!" and "No, it's not...it's time to kick your ass all the way back to hell!"

They all laughed hysterically at Spike & Puppet Angel's fight, and the visual with Puppet Angel & his sword leading the gang out of his office. The 6 yr old was a little disappointed that we didn't get to see more of Nina as a werewolf, and they were all grossed out at Wes & Fred's kiss at the end. 😀
 
Taake
Taake
lol, reminds me of my kid who just groans when there's kissing on TV :)
For the past week I've been studying pharmacology and I have the Angel/Spike interaction on my playlist. My playlist goes Angel/Spike smile time/ OMWF/La Song/ Lady Marmalade- lorne, repeat. I always take a break to watch the smile time bit for each play through. It never gets old for me. Kudos to Joss for keeping me sane through vet school. Bonus: when I take exams I play OMWF in my head to recall the notes that I studied while listening.
 
Do any of you guys with kids let them watch this episode? I think mine would find Puppet Angel hilarious, so I'm considering letting them watch it with some serious editing: I find the kids touching the screens with the puppet moaning to be disturbing, & I think evil puppets are kind of creepy, so I might just let them watch the part with Angel at W&H, especially the fight with Nina and Spike.

I haven't because of the language. It's way too much for my 9 year old.
 
I haven't because of the language. It's way too much for my 9 year old.

Well I think I am a sucky parent then LOL because since I wrote that previous post we have watched it several times & if asked they will tell you that it is one of their favorite Buffy/Angel eps! Puppets, werewolves, Spike- yeah the middle child is in heaven. 🙂
 
I thought it was creepy, the way the children were drained, and the expression on the face afterwards. Fred's reaction to puppet Angel was cute though
 
I
InsaneMystic
the photo aof the little girl in the hospital definitely was nightmare fuel to me, too :aah:
Do any of you guys with kids let them watch this episode? I think mine would find Puppet Angel hilarious, so I'm considering letting them watch it with some serious editing: I find the kids touching the screens with the puppet moaning to be disturbing, & I think evil puppets are kind of creepy, so I might just let them watch the part with Angel at W&H, especially the fight with Nina and Spike.

My kids think this episode is hilarious. Me? I'm creeped out by the obvious sexual undertones in this ep and think I shouldn't let them watch it anymore. Sure, Puppet Angel is adorable, but let me put it this way; it's a good thing that a lot of the themes of this episode are over my kids' heads. They've only seen the ep maybe twice, and then once I realized how uncomfortable it made me feel, I stopped letting them watch it anymore.
 
My kids think this episode is hilarious. Me? I'm creeped out by the obvious sexual undertones in this ep and think I shouldn't let them watch it anymore. Sure, Puppet Angel is adorable, but let me put it this way; it's a good thing that a lot of the themes of this episode are over my kids' heads. They've only seen the ep maybe twice, and then once I realized how uncomfortable it made me feel, I stopped letting them watch it anymore.

I agree. Personally I find it hilarious but the kids touching the screen and the puppets moaning make me very uncomfortable and I can't say I find it suitable for kids :S
 
I agree. Personally I find it hilarious but the kids touching the screen and the puppets moaning make me very uncomfortable and I can't say I find it suitable for kids :S

And here's another time of "I just don't get this sheltering stuff." Your kids aren't going to know what that moaning is... actually, they're going to think it's what happens with the life is drained out of you: AKA, they're going to think it's a bad sound. The joke is there for people who already know about sex. And at least from what I got from it, the moaning and the sexual stuff was supposed to be commentary on abuse... And it was negative to the abuse. In this case, the abuse came from something that looked like it was fantastic for kids, but was really something literally from hell that was going to hurt them. And the way the kids were afterwards was a smile. It is a funny episode, but the themes of it are serious. And the themes will not mean anything to a child who doesn't know about sex and all they'll be left with is the comedy. So if you want to shelter your child from the sexual stuff, you can still let your kid watch this episode because they won't understand it.

This reminds me of that episode of that awful show Pregnant in Heels I was watching where the woman mad the guy take down his favorite guitar from the wall because it had a sticker that had the F word on it... The woman was saying "do you want your child to see this?!" And he's like "uh, if my kid comes out reading, then we'll talk. But as far as I'm concerned, that doesn't really happen." There was no reason for him to take that guitar down until the child was starting to learn to read... I mean a newborn baby isn't going to know those are even letters. Just like your child isn't going to know and get the themes of this episode unless they already have knowledge about the subject you're trying to shelter them from.


Note: I just re-read this and to clarify, I'm not trying to tell anyone how to raise their children. You are parents and you can raise your kids however you like. I just don't understand...
 
Lol! I didn't know there were sexual undertones in the episode at all. Am I naive? Kids touching the TV and the puppets moaning, whoa. Is that really an undertone? Are there others?

Just watched this episode. It is funny but I still think it's ridiculous for an Angel ep, not in a good way.
 
Lol! I didn't know there were sexual undertones in the episode at all. Am I naive? Kids touching the TV and the puppets moaning, whoa. Is that really an undertone? Are there others?

Just watched this episode. It is funny but I still think it's ridiculous for an Angel ep, not in a good way.

Well like I said, it's the thing that looks like it's good for the kids on the surface, but underneath it's literally sucking the life out of them. Which is definitely abuse. What makes it sexual abuse is the moaning. The face the kids are left with is also a symbol of abuse. How abused children are forced by their abusers to put on a smile. So without the moaning and the words "touch it, you know you want to touch it" I'd say it was just abuse. But with that stuff... it's sexual abuse.
 
And here's another time of "I just don't get this sheltering stuff." Your kids aren't going to know what that moaning is... actually, they're going to think it's what happens with the life is drained out of you: AKA, they're going to think it's a bad sound.

Well A. Kids aren't stupid. That's all I'm going to say on that because I feel rather insulted right now.


The joke is there for people who already know about sex.

Yes, which is why I find it inappropriate for my kid. I don't need for him to have this topic shoved in his face even if he 'knows' about it, because I think he deserves to continue to just be a kid with all the innocence that comes with that.


And at least from what I got from it, the moaning and the sexual stuff was supposed to be commentary on abuse... And it was negative to the abuse.

Again, exactly why I don't feel it to be appropriate for my kid. He shouldn't have to think about stuff like that.

So if you want to shelter your child from the sexual stuff, you can still let your kid watch this episode because they won't understand it.

Again I kind of feel like you're talking down to both me and my kid right now. Of course he understands it, he's not dumb, kids understand far more than we give them credit for.

I grew up in perhaps one of the most unsheltered homes ever and for me, I don't shelter a lot, but when it comes to certain things yes I do because I want to protect my child from growing up too fast which I myself did. Kids should get to be kids and if that means holding off on watching shows like Angel for a few years then I don't think that's unreasonable because it was never meant for kids at all.

So yes, Smile Time is hilarious for me as a grown up, but over-protective though it may be I will not let my kid watch it yet because no, he's not stupid and the undertones that make me uncomfortable will not pass him by.
 
Well A. Kids aren't stupid. That's all I'm going to say on that because I feel rather insulted right now.

Yes, which is why I find it inappropriate for my kid. I don't need for him to have this topic shoved in his face even if he 'knows' about it, because I think he deserves to continue to just be a kid with all the innocence that comes with that.

Again, exactly why I don't feel it to be appropriate for my kid. He shouldn't have to think about stuff like that.

Again I kind of feel like you're talking down to both me and my kid right now. Of course he understands it, he's not dumb, kids understand far more than we give them credit for.

I grew up in perhaps one of the most unsheltered homes ever and for me, I don't shelter a lot, but when it comes to certain things yes I do because I want to protect my child from growing up too fast which I myself did. Kids should get to be kids and if that means holding off on watching shows like Angel for a few years then I don't think that's unreasonable because it was never meant for kids at all.

So yes, Smile Time is hilarious for me as a grown up, but over-protective though it may be I will not let my kid watch it yet because no, he's not stupid and the undertones that make me uncomfortable will not pass him by.


I totally, totally agree with you. My oldest daughter is incredibly smart, and she's very mature for her age. My husband and I have worked hard to show her what is right and wrong, and she's now at the age where I'm beginning to explain in more detail why certain parts of her body are off limits for anyone else to see/touch. As someone who was sexually molested as a child, I was disgusted that the "Angel" writers would use a subject as touchy and emotional as that and try to make it funny. Sexual abuse is never funny, and it's CLEAR in the moment when the puppet is telling the child "Touch it!" and then moaning as he puts his hands on the TV that it represents the child touching his private parts, which is sick and twisted.

Just to see if Zoà« is right, I asked my 8-year-old why she thinks I won't let her watch "Smile Time" anymore. She said "Well because the puppets are making the little boy do dirty stuff, right?" I have NEVER ever said out loud to her why I don't like the episode, yet she still knew. The thing about kids, though, is that they are more likely to try to forget about stuff they don't like and repress it. Which is why people like me, who have been through something as traumatic as molestation, will wake up years later having nightmares about their experiences. And even though I know it's just a show, and yes, it's a freakin' puppet, I don't want her watching it.

Maybe this makes me a rigid parent in some people's eyes, but I notice most people who claim that we're being uptight don't have kids of their own yet. So when you have your own children, maybe your opinion will change. but I can tell you that if I had seen this before I had my kids, I still would have been bothered by the dirtiness of the episode. Maybe it's because of my past, or maybe it's because of my upbringing and morals, but I don't think issues like sexual abuse should ever be made light of the way the "Angel" writers did.
 
I'm not sure I agree that it was made light of in Smile Time, it seemed even more disturbing because it's puppets. I do let my kids watch this episode but we fast forward through those parts. I also think it includes the message that there are adults who care & will protect children from this stuff. Although I'm not sure any of this is overt or even intended. Definite undertones though!
 
Wow, I didn't even get the molestation part.

As I've said before, I've worked with victims of sexual abuse. But I'm a male, and I'm not a victim/survivor. I never got that part and thought of it more like Glory getting energy. But I get it now. 🙁

And Taake and HisMrs, I agree with everything you said 100%. I want my son, who is 9 years old, to live the life of a 9 year old. Kids are smart, and this is way too much.
 
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