Angel ep by ep; HOME-"But it means something that you tried"

saturn5

Scooby
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Messages
937
HOME

The Good;
Love the way that when Lilah moves at first she seems awkward, as though she's getting used to using her body again.There is just something endlessly, savagely beautiful about a black panther. Love Fred and Lorne dancing. Great fight between Connor and Angel and lovely ending.

The Bad;
Fred's submachinegun is obviously fake, she totes it around like it weighs nothing because of course it's actually just a hollow shell. You can see that the cops beseiging Connor in the sports store aren't LAPD, in fact you can see the word 'Boston' written on the side of their vehicles. Wes and Lilah never get the chance to say goodbye?

Best line;
Lilah; (of Wes trying and failing to burn her contract) "But it means something that you tried" (how BEAUTIFULLY does Stephanie deliver this line?)

Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Connor pummeling the cop into unconsciousness is nasty although given what Connor's going to do next maybe he should think himself lucky he just got a few bumps. The terrified hostages at the sports shop are hard to watch as is Angel putting the knife in Connor and even more viciously yanking it out again.
Lilah is in hell and despite all of Wes' efforts she's going to remain there. So sad, she had her chance at redemption and she blew it.

Apocalypses: 5

Angel Cliches

Inverting the Hollywood cliche;
Despite being nochalant about all that WR&H have offered him Angel is hugely excited about his big TV

In disguise; 8

DB get's his shirt off; 13

Cheap Angel; 6

Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 14
Wes: 7
Gunn; 5
Lorne; 5
Fred; 3

Fang gang knocked out: no but Connor beats the suicidal cop unconscious
Cordy: 15
Angel: 17
Wes: 7
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 2
Lorne; 6
Groo; 1
Connor; 1
Faith; 1
Fred; 2

Kills; unless someone can correct me the only ep of Angel ever when not only does no one die but no one even kills anyone/anything?
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 44 vamps, 59 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 8 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 14 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 13 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamps+ 2 demon, 5 zombies
Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons, Jasmine

Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 3
Angel: 3
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang;
Cordy: 4
Angel: 11
Fred; 2
Wes; 1
Gunn; 1
Connor; 1

Characters killed:
2255

Recurring characters killed;
9;

Total number of Angel Investigations;5
Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes,

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 12
Wes; 2

Packing heat; Fred with her submachinegun. WR&H seem to have invested in a lot heavier weapons for their new security force, maybe to stop something like The Beast ever happening again?
Wes; 8
Doyle; 1
Angel; 3
Gunn; 2
Fred; 2

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 1 possible, Justine
Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen.
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
How gorgeous is Gunn's guide, Lacey? Knox tells Fred that WR&H have a dungeon. For prisoners or for S&M shenanigans? Lilah wants Angel to strip in front of her.

Captain Subtext;
It's a small moment but when Lilah refers to 'My Wesley' it just speaks volumes. Nice to know that when the chips are down the way to prove yourself to the girl you love is to cut her head off!
Know the face, different character; 5 Jonathon Woodward who plays Knox here was Holden Webster in the Buffy ep 'Conversations with Dead People'.

Parking garages;
6,

Guantanamo Bay;
Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil

What the fanficcers thought;

Missing scenes; If this ep was 9/10 minutes over why can't we get Special Edition Angel DVDs with such footage restored?

Questions and observations;
The last we'll see of Lilah and that is SUCH a shame, Stephanie Romanov has been one of the best things in the series for the last four years. I'd love to see her in the comics (the female boss of the Dollhouse owes much to her, right down to her look). Who's the girl in the picture on the wall behind Wes in his office? WR&H's office now resembles a shopping mall. So is Sirk a genuine defector or a plant from the Watcher's council? Twilight? The Lineage ninjas? Wes has heard of the destruction of the Watcher's Council but probably been too busy to worry about it. Angel knows that Buffy will prevail against evil no matter what the odds. Presumably Gunn taught Connor how to make bombs during the last summer? Angel quite obviously gets the idea for Connor's retrofit from Dawn's origin on Buffy. Wouldn't you love to see Connor get together with Dawn? They have so much in common and it would be cool to see what their kids turn out like? Unless anyone can correct me we'll never see the Hyperion again either. Seigfreid and Roy are referenced, do they own the panther?

WR&H give the amulet to Angel. Now, are they doing this purely to thwart The First's plans or are they now aware that there is a SECOND vampire with a soul and that he might be the one that the prophecies speak off? Is this intended to gain control of Spike but Lindey get's there first? Speaking of whom in Dead End Lindsey warns Angel not to play WR&H's game. For good or ill here he ignores that advice and does exactly that.

Marks out of 10; 10/10, not so much a season ending but a pilot for the new series, a complete reboot. That said if Angel had ended here I'd be disappointed but it would still be a good ending.
 
Woodward played Holden Webster too? Was he in vamp face during the whole CWDP? Maybe that's why I didn't recognize him. I can't remember.


The ending was sad but touching. 🙂
 
W
Willow My Love
He was the psych major that Buffy talked to. It's how she found out that Spike was killing again.
My second fav season finale. So many powerful scenes. It's so sad when Wes failed to free Lilah and when Angel killed Connor. The last scene with happy Connor makes me cry just thinking of it.

10/10
 
An interesting note on this. I always felt that while Jasmine was generally seen as a villain, her intentions are similar to Angel's.

Jasmine was trying to save mankind from itself but to do this she had to take away human free will. Angel argues the cost was too high and that the happiness they felt was a lie.

Connor actually takes this argument to extreme. Angel is arguing the kind of positive existentialism, he's been championing since season 2 of Ats. Connor goes into a form of nihilism, I guess, claiming everything is a lie. The truth of whether one can be saved by a lie is open to scrutiny. In Jasmine's eyes, the humans under her thrall, were happy. The source of that happiness was irrelevant.

The twist is, is this so different from what Angel did for Connor? He changed his memories and everyone elses without their consent. While it can be argued that any happiness they have is real because they at least have free will, he at least changed their nature. Having the memories we have informs our choices, if we change those memories, then it can affect the choices we make. At the very least we can challenge Angel in that he took away something he didn't have the right to take away. His intentions, however were noble, because he wanted to give Connor everything, not unlike Jasmine.

Good ep though, liked it.
 
D
dan k
really good point about Jasmine's intentions, i never looked at it in that way before
I enjoyed this episode because of a lot of things. Seeing Connor is a great yet sad moment it is like he is happy but without Angel. My favorite scenes of course were the Lilah and Wes scenes. I will always love Fred and Wes most but i can appreciate Lilah and Wes. The way he burned the contract showed he cared and we know she did even though she acted like she was a hard shell at times. Overall this was a good season finale and kind of send off in a way to Lilah.
 
The twist is, is this so different from what Angel did for Connor? He changed his memories and everyone elses without their consent. While it can be argued that any happiness they have is real because they at least have free will, he at least changed their nature. Having the memories we have informs our choices, if we change those memories, then it can affect the choices we make. At the very least we can challenge Angel in that he took away something he didn't have the right to take away. His intentions, however were noble, because he wanted to give Connor everything, not unlike Jasmine.

Good ep though, liked it.

Also, Angel stole Buffy's memories from her in "I Will Remember You," the episode that forever sank the Bangel ship with all hands on board for me. Angel seems to believe that he can manipulate others' lives and make decisions for them "for the greater good," but no one else has the same right.
 
Also, Angel stole Buffy's memories from her in "I Will Remember You," the episode that forever sank the Bangel ship with all hands on board for me. Angel seems to believe that he can manipulate others' lives and make decisions for them "for the greater good," but no one else has the same right.

Um well, no one has that right but in Angel's defence, when he makes decisions, the main people who he targets seem to either be grateful (Connor) or understand or think in the long run he's in the right (Buffy).
 
Jasmine controlled minds, that's lot different from messing with memories.

Also, she ate people. Granted Angel did that too, but he felt bad about it.
 
This episode fits nicely into my top 10 episodes of Angel. It's nice to have no demon/vampire fighting for a change! I love when they all go to the limo, and then Lorne is in there having a blast. Loved Fred and Lorne dancing. I love how much we get off Lilah in this episode, and her and Wes awwww.
 
It was just so good to see Lilah back!

I just didn't understand what happens between the moment Angel says to Connors he's gonna prove he loves him and the moment Connors is dawnised.
 
"This is what you came back from the dead for? To play 'Let's Make An Evil Deal?"

I just didn't understand what happens between the moment Angel says to Connors he's gonna prove he loves him and the moment Connors is dawnised.

I think it's assumed that he kills him, or at least Connor thinks he's going to kill him, but the spell takes effect right at that moment. Of course we don't know for sure.

I think this is a great season finale, and set-up for s5, a la Restless.

The fight scenes between Angel & Connor are so sad, as well as the Wesley/Lilah scene. I love how Fred's the only one who picks up the weapon offered her at W&H. She's such an animal in disguise LOL. It's kind of disturbing to see a Watcher working for W&H (I'm referring to Sirk, not Wesley LOL).

Fav quotes:

Lorne: So it's an evil limo, I get that, but does that mean we don't restock the cherries?

Gunn: You wanna give us an evil law firm? We ain't lawyers!
Fred: Or evil...currently. [referencing Angelus, Cordelia, Wesley maybe, & foreshadowing Illryia]

WESLEY: What are the odds the humans would be the most corruptible?

Lilah: But it means something that you tried.


Now, off to Sunnydale!! 😀
 
Ugh... that scene with Connor and Angel? SO heartbreaking! I cried like a freaking baby during my latest rewatch. I'm tearing up just thinking about it!

Connor grates my nerves to no end at times, but I think he's really grown on me. I used to hate him, like I hate Dawn, but I like him now. Still - he's much better in S5 😛

I just love this episode. So much!
 
This episode was a sad one to me. To give up your son to just to safe his life and give him a better one cause of who you are and why he was created made him co corrupt so alone was sad and touching. I cried watching Angel have to see his son all happy like that with another family when he would have killed to have that with him theirselves was sad. This epsiode was a good season finale, and I just loved it. On my top Angel favorit episodes list.

Grade: 10/10
 
This is such a well written episode. Vincent and David's acting in the store is wonderful (especially Angel holding back the tears) and the final scene breaks my heart 🙁
 
Home...a decent season finale, one of the best of Angel, I think. The scene with Connor so happy and with a family and Angel watching broke my heart...Yes, Angel always does this thing of erasing memories and it's not really fair but he wants people to be happy and he, better than anyone else, knows that if you carry a memory or a life of events with you, it's gonna haunt you forever. He doesn't want that for the people he cares about but I think he should've left the others the memory of Connor, at least...they would've dealt with it. How sweet is Wes with Lilah??? I think I'm definitely a shipper now. And was that HOLDEN? What a surprise! Well, I can't wait to see what the gang is gonna do at W&H...they certainly have cool stuff, especially if someone has a talent or a chance to do something better...at least I hope they do. I just wonder what made Gunn accept the offer...I guess I'll just have to wait and see. Go to Buffy now, Angel!!!
 
I loved this ending. I think it was the best season finale up to this point.

It was sad seeing Lilah, and Wes' reaction to her, and sad that Angel removed himself from Connor's life. (Another time of him choosing what was best for people, and manipulating their memories...)

I love seeing Angel going to Sunnydale this time. We didn't see him leave the last time.
 
Back
Top Bottom