Angel ep by ep; LINEAGE-cyborg ninjas and father figures

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saturn5

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What other show could combine the 2?

LINEAGE

The Good;
Hard boiled Wes in both terms of his negotiations and gunplay. All the scenes with Wes and his dad are excellent as is the assault on WR&H

The Bad;
We tolerate a lot of dramatic licence in terms of what AI can endure but Gunn being chucked against the staircase should kill him. If WR&H have this staff that controls Angel why not use it before?

Best line;
Wes (after Emil prattles on); "If I'd know this was a seminar I'd have worn a name-tag"

Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Hooks through the throat! Also Wes gropes around the cyborg's guts with his bare hands?

Apocalypses: 5

Angel Cliches

In disguise; 8

DB/JM get's his shirt off; 17,

Cheap Angel; 7

Subverting the cliche;

Fang Gang in bondage: Gunn chained
Cordy: 5
Angel: 14
Wes: 7
Gunn; 6
Lorne; 5
Fred; 3

Fang gang knocked out: Fred passes out, Wes knocked out by his 'dad'
Cordy: 15
Angel: 19
Wes: 8
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 2
Lorne; 7
Groo; 1
Connor; 1
Faith; 1
Fred; 4

Kills; Wes kills one of Emil's goons and 2 cyborgs. Angel kills a cyborg.
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 45 vamps, 61 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 12 humans, one werewolf and one cyborg
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 14 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 3 humans, 2 cyborgs
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 13 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamps+ 2 demon, 5 zombies
Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons, Jasmine
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 3
Angel: 3
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang;
Cordy: 4
Angel: 11
Fred; 2
Wes; 1
Gunn; 1
Connor; 1
Lorne; 1

Characters killed:
2261

Recurring characters killed;
10

Total number of Angel Investigations; 5, here Spike saves Gunn
Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes,

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 14
Wes; 2

Packing heat; Wes with his 45s, Fred with the sniper rifle. Presumably Wes uses the 13-shot model of the 45 as he fires 9 bullets when he shoots his 'father'.
Wes; 11
Doyle; 1
Angel; 4
Gunn; 3
Fred; 3

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast
Angel: 6; Buffy, Darla, The Transcending Furies, Eve
Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 1 possible, Justine
Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen.
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
Emil is turned on by the sight of a woman handling a powerful weapon. Well who isn't? Worked for Ripley/Sarah Connor! Wes' dad describes his mum as 'sturdy'? Spike refers to him having sex with the Buffybot and his mum trying to 'shag' him. I know the Buffybot is true but is that really true about his mum? Not from my recollection.

Captain Subtext;
Lorne hints that Churchill and Richard Harris had a love child? Spike thinks Wes was grown in a school for dandies. Angel says he's not comfortable with hugging. Like CC in Spin the Bottle Spike makes great fun of Wesley being 'Head boy' (good thing he never let's on about his own relationship with his mother). Whereas the prophecy stated that the father will kill the son here we have the son killing the father (although neither turns out to be true). Angel wears a lot more grey than black this season perhaps illustrating his moral ambiguity?

Know the face, different character; 5

Parking garages;
8,

Guantanamo Bay
Wes ruthlessly tortures the cyborg.

Buffy characters on Angel; 16.
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil

What the fanficcers thought;


Missing scenes;

Questions and observations;
Emil is the guy who sold Wes his James Bond style weapons in Spin the Bottle. The ninjas are reminiscent of both the old Disney Star Wars clone The Black Hole and Snake-Eyes from Action Force/GI JOE. Note as soon as his dad shows up Wes returns to his klutzy season 1 self (just like Tara get's her stutter back in Family). Does Lorne say that Louis Gossett Jnr wants a phone party or foam party? Are the cyborgs Twilight? The Initiative? Or are they really from the Watcher's Council? Wes' dad and co stopped pre-soul Spike slaughtering an orphanage, you have to remember that the Watcher's Council were good guys who wanted to protect people. Nice ref to Lilah. Spike still fears Pavayne. Is it really Wes' dad? The imposter seems to know an awful lot about him, more so than any Watcher's files could say. Fathers as always poorly portrayed in the Buffyverse. Wes' 45. fires nine shots so presumably it's the 13 shot version rather than the standard? Angel and Spike recount the stories of killing their own parents. The story of little Wes trying to ressurect a dead bird speaks much of his humanity. Roy Dotrice holds the dubious distinction of being one of only three people ever killed onscreen in The A-Team (anyone name me the other 2? Or can you name all 7 members of the A-Team?). His daughter also married the late Edward Woodward.

Marks out of 10; 8/10, nice to have a Wesley centric ep

Why is there no Wes icon?
 
This is one of my favorite eps of S5. Ever since that reference to him back in S1 of Angel where he says “A father doesn’t have to be possessed to terrorize his children. He just has to... " and kinda trails off, leaving us to wonder exactly what he meant by that remark, I have wanted to see an episode where we get to see real interaction between Wesley and his father. I know this wasn't really his father, but still... We see what kind of daddy issues Wes has and it's very sad and heartbreaking.
 
I always thought that was Doyle? Also why don't we have a Joyce or Anya or Andrew?

Love to see Wes' dad in the comics, is he even aware his son is dead?
 
Doyles here with the half-bracken demon face kickin.

You can tell it's Wes on account of the glasses he, although I'd prefer an icon from later season Wes when he's descended into pure badarse killer mode.


I have a real hard time following the Angel comics after ATF because of Wes not being in them. By the end of the show he was as much apart of that show as Angel was imho.
 
Spike's mom tried to 'shag' him before he dusted her 😉

I love this ep! It's a little on the 'meh' side, but anything Wes-centric is good for me 😀
 
From my recollection she goaded him about it but I don't think she actually came on to him?
 
One of my faves of the season. Poor Wes and his daddy issues. His dad is a jerk. Even though that wasnt his real dad, we still saw what Daddy was like.

9/10.
 
Yeah, Wes, one of my favourite characters!!!!!

It was a very Angel-light episode although I liked how the exchanges between them at times. His tirade against Wes after Fred got hurt interesting because he found himself unable to open up about why he mistrusts Wes decision making. I also liked the fathers and son line, that's the problem Angel knows first hnd on both accounts lol but the end was great where Angel understands Wes' Uitilitarian attitude and his decision making , which lightly presages his decision in A Hole In The World. It was also a way of saying I understand what you were trying to do with Connor without actually having to say it.

What I think is interesting about Wes, is that in his father we see the sources of the two things he is or has been famous for: his insecurity and his ruthlessness. I remember seeing a film and someone said 'Dying is easy but when you find something you'd kill for..." This hit me when he shot his 'dad', he would die for Angel but kill for Fred.

I loved Lorne, although when he says Judi Dench said "that's way too much to pay for a pair of pants" does he mean underpants because we Brits don't tend to say pants when referring to trousers, just a random musing.

I also like how Wes wouldn't deceive himself about chosing to kill his father dispite Fred's words and what he may want to believe and considering the cyborg threatened to kill him it's shocking that he'd believe his father would be like that, I guess he probably would which explain Wesley's sometimes ruthless way of approaching matters. It lack of self deception reminds me of

Wes: ... I however am stuck with the naked truth.

and....

Wes: I wont accept a lie.

Until of course the end

Is Angel really a puppet? Roger seems to thinks so and the SPs seem to have him right where they want him. Lindsay makes a similar claim in YW. Even if he doesn't have any real free will I think it's an important message to make like he does and that's why his actions means so much in Peace Out and in NFA. I believe Gunn was right in Inside Out, it's that final shot that big guys can't rig and as long as human dignity remains intact in that respect then I can believe Angel and the others aren't puppets.
 
This may just be my favorite Angel episode. Has great action ,twist, and emotional scenes. And it really made me love the character of Wesley even more.
 
I greatly appreciated the relationship between Wesley and his father, it did help fill out a lot of subtext with his character. and was well played by both actors.

I thought they could have found a better way to do this, though ... like if that had been his real father, not a cyborg. Honestly I thought the cyborg ninjas required even more suspension of disbelief than usual for an Angel episode.
 
I loved the episode, apart from the cop-out with Wes' dad being a robot. Come on, we already had that once back in "Ted", it's a bit cheap to pull the same trick again.
 
Great Wesley centric episode. It was nice to see a little bit of the old Wesley back. Aw, love how Wes would kill whoever for Fred. I loved Fred and Wes sooooo much. I did think we would get a follow up at some point to this episode regarding who the cyborgs are? Maybe S6 would of gone down that path?
 
Excellent tension in this one. Great episode and a nice twist.

Best line:
Spike: Oh! ... How've you been?
EDIT Spike: sex with robots is more common than people think was a good contender too 😛

Would Fred have just walked off with Knox like that at the end? I didn't think so.
 
KANA
What I think is interesting about Wes, is that in his father we see the sources of the two things he is or has been famous for: his insecurity and his ruthlessness. I remember seeing a film and someone said 'Dying is easy but when you find something you'd kill for..." This hit me when he shot his 'dad', he would die for Angel but kill for Fred.
Click to expand...
Love your whole assessment of Wes & this episode. This was such a great episode, even though I really have no clue what the cyborgs were about (were they good? were they evil?). And how did his father survive the attack on the Council in the first place?

My favorite quote is Angel: "You do what you have to do to protect the people around you. To do what you know is right, regardless of the cost. You know, I never really understood that. You're the guy who makes all the hard decisions, even if you have to make 'em alone."
 
At first I thought this was going to be a boring episode but I was terribly wrong..I loved it. Wesley and his Dad sure have a complicated relationship, the scene at the end makes me so sad and I feel for Wesley...it must be terrible not to communicate with your Dad and feeling always tramped on.

One of the things I love most about this episode is Spike...he's the gem here...every sentence, I just laugh...I want more Spike time..and also Angel time! Well, I guess this was mainly focused on Wesley and also Fred...stupid Knox..I wanted to kick his ass..Wesley was waiting for that moment for like..years LOL

And one last thing...Wesley's thoughts had to be terrible after he discovered that wasn't his Dad..because in the end, it makes no difference to him..he thought he was his Dad and killed him anyway so he knows that he's capable of killing his Father..those are scary thoughts to have in your mind.
 
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