Angel ep by ep; SANCTUARY-Buffy&Faith&Angel

[white avenger]

It's never been mentioned before to my knowledge, but Angel basically telling Buffy that LA was his turf and she wasn't welcome there (as in coming in and taking charge, the way that Buffy tends to do wherever she is) was the reason why, in Season 6, they met somewhere "halfway" in some sort of predesignated spot, sort of neutral ground, rather than either one invading the other's territory.

 

[pieceofgosa]

So, I was on BB the other night absolutely slating the previous episode Five by Five & I stand by what I said. This ep... much better. Eliza shows a bit of restraint & genuine emotion (as opposed to the histrionics of the previous ep) & as a result the episode is very compelling. The one overiding thing that comes out of it is that Buffy is a total bi**h !! Once again she displays her uncanny ability to make everything about her, she does it with Willow, she does it with Xander, she does it with Giles & she does it with Angel. It is a very unnattractive quality & I was left wondering why the hell Angel feels bad after he yells at her. He points out it's not all about her, she gets pissy then tries (& succeeds) to annoy him by gloating about how what she has with Riley is "not like what we had" because she "trusts him", yeah? How'd that work out for ya Buff? Not so well huh? 'Cause once again you were so self absorbed that Riley had to go & get his jollies from a vampire with very questionable hygiene. Anyway, this ep really made me hate Buffy.

 

[dan k]

I love Buffy but this is an episode where she shows a selfish side to her nature. The way she reacts to seeing Angel hold Faith is i suppose understandable but what follows isn't. The look of shock after Angel hits her, well its as if they are still together and that Angel belongs to her. She overlooks the fact that she hit him first.

The way she introduces Riley to Angel comes across as a defensive measure which totally disregards Angel's feelings. It's a snide, hurtful remark, making it seem everything is about her. It also makes her shock about seeing Angel with Faith strange because she's moved on why can't Angel?

Personally i love the episode as i do most cross over episodes. It brings a new dimension to the series and seeing the scenes with Buffy, Faith and Angel was gripping stuff. The history they have and the situation at hand made it a fascinating episode. Any fan of Buffy/Angel must like this episode.

 

[saturn5]

I love Buffy but this is an episode where she shows a selfish side to her nature. The way she reacts to seeing Angel hold Faith is i suppose understandable but what follows isn't. The look of shock after Angel hits her, well its as if they are still together and that Angel belongs to her. She overlooks the fact that she hit him first.

The way she introduces Riley to Angel comes across as a defensive measure which totally disregards Angel's feelings. It's a snide, hurtful remark, making it seem everything is about her. It also makes her shock about seeing Angel with Faith strange because she's moved on why can't Angel?

Personally i love the episode as i do most cross over episodes. It brings a new dimension to the series and seeing the scenes with Buffy, Faith and Angel was gripping stuff. The history they have and the situation at hand made it a fascinating episode. Any fan of Buffy/Angel must like this episode.

Give Buffy a break, Faith essentially raped Riley and she's probably still sore at him for dumping her. I think we can allow him a little ire. What I like about this ep is that Buffy and Wes seem to make up

 

[dan k]

Like i said i love Buffy, but i still think the way she treats Angel in this episode isn't right. Ok she has a problem with Faith but the way she mentions Riley just is a slap in the face for Angel.

In regard to Buffy and Wes i don't think they have much interaction in this episode, what makes you think they made up?

 

[GrrArghx]

I think both of them were unfair to one another. Angel doesn't seem to understand Buffy's treatment of Faith (of course, he wouldn't because he wasn't there) and of course, Buffy doesn't understand Angel's treatment of Faith (because all Buffy sees is the girl who screwed with her life and the man she still loves and cares about coddling her).

 

[white avenger]

I loved the scene when Faith asks "How dies this work?" and he gives her a whole spiel about guilt and atonement, and redemption, and I think that he was actually about to suggest effective brooding techniques when she interrupts, "No, the microwave." All she wanted was some popcorn, not a lecture. Pure Angel. I'm really surprised that he knew how to do anything besides warm blood in it.

 

[pieceofgosa]

Give Buffy a break

Nope sorry, no breaks 🙂 Who got to the church first to save the congregation in Who Are You?, seriously what did Buffy think Faith was doing there? She was in the wind. She was at the airport, she had her ticket & she was gone. But she did the right thing because she thought there was no-one else around to help, a fact I give Faith a lot of credit for not throwing in Buffy's self-righteous, smarmy face. Wow, that was a bit harsher than I intended. I hope I don't need to say that this is all only in my opinion, hmm, guess I just did 🙂

 

[ToShanshuInLA]

Yeah, Buffy gets no breaks from me here...Especially not after the police station scene.

 

[dan k]

I love the scene where Buffy just stares at Angel and Faith embracing. Also the next scene where Angel hits Buffy and they have the chat about Faith. Well acted by Sarah, David and Eliza.

 

[Vengeance]

Don't get the Buffy hate. Quoth anya "We're not big with the sorry." Faith had done her best to ruin Buffy's life over and over again, so personally I think she's justified in wanting revenge on Faith. Maybe she suddenly realizes she's a terrible human being and wants to change but maybe should've figured it out a little sooner. Angel just can't help himself when he sees a pretty girl in distress.

 

[ToShanshuInLA]

Anger at Faith = justfied
Anger at Angel = not so much

Especially toward the end when enough time had passed for her to calm down.

Like someone else said, I don't get why he felt so bad after she left.

 

[Vengeance]

Well, Angel was stopping her from her revenge. And the cuddling thing probably threw her also. Angel knew how much Faith had hurt her but he placed Faith's needs above Buffy's. Buffy emphasizing that she found someone she can trust to put her needs above all else, and Angel emphasizing that he doesn't look out for Buffy anymore. Though that last part isn't really true, he still felt for her so naturally he wanted to apologize and tend to her needs.

 

[crazysoulless]

Faith: Angel said you wouldn't give me a chance.
Buffy: I gave you every chance! I tried so hard to help you and you spat on me. My life was just a game to you. Angel. Riley. Anything you could take from me, you took. I've lost battles before but nobody has ever made me a victim.

I was 100% on Buffy's side. All of S3 and even in TYG Buffy was defending Faith to everyone and wanting to see the best in her and wanting to help her. And Faith betrayed her. Again and again and again. Faith made it all about Buffy. She tried to seduce Buffy's boyfriend. She was kissing Angel in front of a chained up Buffy and was planning on torturing her to death. She shot Buffy's boyfriend with a poisoned arrow in which the only cure was Slayer's blood. She punched Buffy's mother in the face and held her hostage and was going to gut her with a knife. She stole Buffy's body. She chose to let Buffy get taken away to get punished for Faith's crimes. She took the "single white female" stichk to the point where her spirit wormed its way into Buffy's body and she was pretending to be Buffy in front of Buffy's mother, Buffy's friends, and Buffy's boyfriend. She let someone have sex with Buffy's body without Buffy's consent.

There are plenty of females that get weirded out and feel violated if they wake up and then their boyfriend/lover is having sex with them. It feels like rape since they didn't consent. Many do consider it rape even though the man probably assumed she would have been fine with it. What Faith did was a million times worse. It was not Faith's body. Her spirit had no right to be in Buffy's body. She should have had no say in who Buffy's body has sex with. She should not know what it physically feels like when Buffy has sex. She should have no say in when Buffy's body orgasms. Some people may be hesistant to call what Faith did to Buffy rape, but it WAS a major sexual violation.

The last time Buffy, Angel, and Faith were in the same city Buffy nearly died from blood loss because she had to let Angel nearly drain her dry because Faith shot him with a poisoned arrow. And it was Angel that seemed to have no problem with the thought of killing Faith to save himself. The scene of Buffy in front of the mirror (with a sticker that said "lost" on it) looking sick showed that what she was about to do was against her ethical code and she didn't really want to hurt Faith but she didn't think she had another option to save Angel. It is Angel that says "I wasn't making plans to weep over that one (Faith)" while Buffy kisses a comatose Faith on the forehead. In Consequences Angel seems unsure about whether or not he can get through to Faith and it is Buffy that is saying she won't give up on her and to keep trying.

Imagine how you would feel if the person you lost your virginity to was defending someone that sexually violated you. Imagine if he actually put himself physically between you and the person who sexually violated you seeing you as the agressor and the other person as the victim who needs protection. Angel was protecting Faith physically and emotionally.

It was even harder for Buffy since she was still in love with Angel. And I doubt she forgot that Faith once tried to seduce Angel into have sex with her and would have had sex with him had that Shaman not owed Giles a favor and faked the soul extraction.

Buffy did NOT move on from Angel. Riley stated in The Replacement (that title applied to him as much as the Toth storyline) that while he thinks of Buffy as "the One" he knows that she doesn't love him. Xander told Buffy in Into the Woods that she shut down after Angel hurt her and was treating Riley like the rebound boyfriend. Buffy admits to Giles in Intervention that she was never completely emotionally vulnerable or there for Riley the way she had been for Angel. In the 11 months that Buffy and Riley were together she never said "I love you" even though he said it to her many times "I'm so in love with you I can't think straight" "there's not a single part of you I'm not in love with". While in Doomed she was trying to protect herself from heartbreak, when she actually got together with Riley she was doing it subconciously. In Selfless she stated that she loved Angel more than she'll ever love anything in this world.

Buffy was not going to physically harm Faith. She said "Apologize to me and I will beat you to death" in the same way that she once said to Giles after he massively betrayed her "touch me and I'll kill you". Nobody believed she would actually kill Giles! You can't toy with someone's life and expect an "I'm sorry" to make everything better. Buffy hears a lot of sorry's. In Tabula Rasa she said sarcastically about all of the apologies and remorse "I'm sorry. Everybodys sorry." When Spike came to her house for the first time after the attempted rape, "Don't even start by saying you're sorry." When your trust has been betrayed and you've been hurt deeply enough by someone words are meaningless. Apologies ring false and self-serving.

Look at Buffy's actions towards Faith in Sanctuary. She does not harm her at all. When she was alone with her on the roof all she did was talk. She explained to Faith how she made her feel. And then she saved Faith's life from the WC hitmen and the risk of her own.

 

[dan k]

Buffy doesn't harm Faith on the roof because i think she starts to understand what Angel was going on about in terms of the pain Faith is in. She starts to feel sorry for Faith and when she says "shut up" i think its a sign of her realizing what Angel was getting at.

If Angel hadn't of intervened Buffy would have battered Faith. It was that intervention which allowed Buffy to think about what was happening to Faith, hence why she defended her on the roof.

My issue is how Buffy treated Angel not Faith.

 

[saturn5]

I love the scene where Buffy just stares at Angel and Faith embracing. Also the next scene where Angel hits Buffy and they have the chat about Faith. Well acted by Sarah, David and Eliza.

Of course the other view is that Buffy actually loves Faith and is jealous of her and Angel. Remember Faith had seduced Riley and now Buffy sees her in Angel's arms, you can't blame a girl for taking a step and 'there conclusions were'.

As for Buffy and Wes the scene where he says 'Hello Buffy' and giving her a lift in the car, all very small and subtle but it is there

 

[dan k]

I don't know if there's enough involvement between Wes and Buffy for any strong conclusions to be made. I would have liked to see another longer interaction between them, much like i would have preferred to see Buffy and Cordelia interact me in "I will remember you".

 

[crazysoulless]

I think she told Faith to shut up because in the middle of Buffy venting about how victimized she felt because of what Faith did to her, Faith tries to turn it around and make herself the victim. She couldn't just let Buffy explain how she felt. She started accusing Buffy of having it easier than her.

I still don't think that Buffy would have physically harmed Faith if Faith wasn't going to put up a fight. There has never been a single time that Buffy has given in to vengeance or done that kind of violence because she was angry. She was the only one that was against Warren getting physically harmed when she was talking to Xander and Dawn about what Willow was doing.

If Buffy truly wanted to beat the stuffing out of Faith in Angel's apartment, she could have. Buffy is stronger than Angel which he attested to. Buffy ALWAYS knew that Faith was in a lot of pain. She just didn't think that was a legit excuse for going out of your way to cause other people pain. You don't make others suffer because you are suffering. Buffy could always empathize with what other people were experiencing. It was Faith that could not see past her own pain and assumed that other people didn't have it so bad compared to her.

I hated when Angel said "not in my city". Buffy was born and raised in Los Angeles. She lived there for SIXTEEN YEARS. Her entire first year as the Slayer was there. It is where Angel first saw and fell in love with her and stalked her. It is where her father still lived. It is where her parents got divorced, she spent three weeks in the psych ward, her first Watcher died, she went when she was grieving Angel's death, etc.

 

[Misty]

I actually love this episode and the Faith moments in it too. As for Buffy being it this episode, I think she did have every right to be mad at Faith because of what happened in "Who Are You" and "This Year's Girl, the episode before," when Faith beat up Joyce and trashed Buffy's body because I'd feel the same way too if my enemy did that to me. However, I thought that Buffy was being hypocritical when she was all mad how Angel hit her because she hit him first, but I think it's because Buffy was upset that he was letting Faith get away after the bad stuff she did back in Sunnydale.

 

[crazysoulless]

I can understand Buffy being surprised that he hit her back since this was barely the second time she saw him since the week that she nearly died letting him drain her dry due to Faith shooting him with a poisoned arrow. Buffy hit him because he was physically stopping her from getting near Faith and by hitting her back instead of just blocking her hit he was saying he would resort to violence to protect Faith. "You hit me for her."