Angel ep by ep; SANCTUARY-Buffy&Faith&Angel

[Kana]

It's wlaways a difficult on this but I I do love the episode.

As for Angel hitting Buffy, I'll always say, if it were a man attacking a woman and the woman defending herself, no one would bat an eyelid, because that's what it was self defence.

I once read a review that stated that when Faith hit Angel, he was able to control himself, but when Buffy did it, he hit back. Faith in Sanctuary, only hit Angel one time, whereas Buffy hit Angel was going to attack him again.

I can understand that Buffy is upset with Faith and in terms of the 'What to Do with Faith?' argument, it was an open call, I'll admit, but I don't like how Buffy treated Angel. Attacking, him and throwing his muderous past in his face and using her relationship with Riley, simply to hurt him. In regards to Buffy and Angel, at the end, Angel comes across as yelling at Buffy in righteous anger, but she comes across towards Angel as self righteous and malicious. He wasn't doing of this to spite her, he actually believed in what he was doing and respect him for not letting Buffy boss him around. Even when he came to Sunnydale, she had time to calm down and see where Angel was coming from.

 

[crazysoulless]

I think he was able to control himself when Faith hit him and not when Buffy hit him because his emotions and his demon come out more around Buffy because of how strongly he feels about her.

Yes, Buffy was going to hit him a second time but it wasn't an isolated event, look at their overall history. Buffy was attacked by his vampire family (The Master, Luke, Darla, Spike, Drusilla). She had to deal with the Order of Taraka so that Angel could be used to cure Dru. She was psychologically tortured by Angelus. She spent months grieving Angel. She nursed him back to health after the sire ritual and after he returned from Hell. She stopped Faith from killing Angel twice. She gave him "perfect happiness" and was the first person to believe in him and be comfortable with the fact that he was a vampire and made him feel human. He was going to kill himself in Amends because he didn't want to hurt Buffy anymore. His dream in Prom showed that he didn't want to hurt her anymore. He nearly killed her in GD#2. He wanted to face the Mohra demon by himself in IWRY because "if I'm going to make this work with Buffy then I can't keep risking her life" and he gave up his humanity because he believed being with him would still lead to her being hurt.

I think Angel, and not Buffy, came off as self-righteous. He was pretty much calling Wesley and Buffy petty for being upset that Faith massively hurt them. The way he called it his town. I think that Buffy was right and that he was seeing it more from Faith's perspective since he was a recovering murderer. He wasn't often on the innocent victim side of a situation like that. He understood what it was like to try to atone and to feel guilt over doing evil things but he didn't know much about what it is like to be the one who is betrayed and hurt by someone. I think he did act as if Buffy couldn't understand because she'd never done anything wrong to the point that she would need redemption. But Buffy does understand loneliness and guilt and suffering and being lost.

 

[TheVoid68]

"I'm sorry, I can't be in your little club. I've never murdered anybody."
"You know what the difference is? I can trust him."
"You hit me."

Yeah, Buffy wins the self-righteous award here.

 

[crazysoulless]

All three of those quotes were in response to something. He did feel as if he knew better when it came to dealing with Faith despite the fact that Faith & Buffy were the only two Slayers in the world, Buffy was Faith's only friend, and it was Buffy that spent the most time wanting to rehabilitate Faith in the past. I don't think "self-righteous" is the right word to describe Buffy telling Angel about Riley. She was hurt and felt that he didn't care about her anymore and so she said something--a lie--to see if it hurt him and if he still cared. She was upset that he hit her because he did it to protect Faith and because almost Buffy's entire relationship with Angel involved him hurting her, look at the previous times they've hit each other (to save his life in Amends *and he hit her back*, to save his life in GD#2, to get info out of Faith in Enemies).

 

[pieceofgosa]

All three of those quotes were in response to something. He did feel as if he knew better when it came to dealing with Faith despite the fact that Faith & Buffy were the only two Slayers in the world, Buffy was Faith's only friend, and it was Buffy that spent the most time wanting to rehabilitate Faith in the past.

That may very well be true but she said it in a superior tone & feeling superior to people is something she herself admits to, hence "self-righteous" is accurate here (imo).

I don't think "self-righteous" is the right word to describe Buffy telling Angel about Riley. She was hurt and felt that he didn't care about her anymore and so she said something--a lie--to see if it hurt him and if he still cared.

Maybe partly, but part of her saying that about Riley was that she just wanted to hurt him, full stop.

She was upset that he hit her because he did it to protect Faith and because almost Buffy's entire relationship with Angel involved him hurting her, look at the previous times they've hit each other (to save his life in Amends *and he hit her back*, to save his life in GD#2, to get info out of Faith in Enemies).

Again, that's not the way she said it. She said it like it should have been followed by the line:
"How could you possibly hit me?"
When everybody in the room knows that she is the strongest one there. It devalued the character for me.

 

[crazysoulless]

I don't think she felt that superior to Angel. Most of the relationship she seemed afraid that he would stop loving her. She was very insecure that he would leave her. She was afraid in Enemies that he would cheat on her with Faith. She was afraid in Innocence that she didn't satisfy him. She was worried when she saw him talking to Drusilla and lying about it. She was afraid that he would prefer Cordelia since she didn't have to spend hours fighting and could concentrate on just being feminine. She thought he was the one that didn't see her as his equal and as just "a kid" that didn't understand the world like he did. Angel was her first EVERYTHING and that made her more vulnerable with him than she was with others.

If I let someone nearly drain me dry because an enemy shot them and the next year he hits me to defend that enemy I'd probably be thinking, "How could you possibly hit me?" too. Buffy was going off of the emotions of the hit and not the fact that she hit someone that was a little bit less strong (but still quite strong!) as her and he hit her back.

 

[pieceofgosa]

Imo Buffy has a natural air of superiority, it's where she goes when she feels threatened or attacked, it's like her default setting. Whether or not she feels superior to Angel specifically when she says she hasn't murdered anyone, imo, is immaterial. She feels superior to murderers, & why shouldn't she? But she reduces them to a "little club" and basically says that someone as good & pure as her could never do the things that Angel & Faith have done. As for the hitting sitch, I don't have a prob with Buffy being pissed that Angel hit her to protect Faith, I can understand why that would irk her, but why isn't the line, "you hit me to protect her?!?". The actual line that she says makes her come off (imo) victim-y, like she can't believe that Angel could hit her at all, regardless of whether Faith was in play or not.

 

[BibliophileAnn]

Anger at Faith = justfied
Anger at Angel = not so much

Especially toward the end when enough time had passed for her to calm down.

Like someone else said, I don't get why he felt so bad after she left.

When Buffy and Angel were together and they had fights Angel always felt bad. That hasn't changed because Angel still cares about Buffy and felt bad about yelling at her. So he went to Sunnydale to apologise.

 

[Nymphetamine]

Buffy was a little overreacting in this episode. Buffy went crazy when she saw Angel & Faith hugging and thinks they're seeing each other. Buffy has another boyfriend and he can't have a girlfriend. So that was hypocrite.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

Everytime I watch this episode it leaves me confused. Buffy took it too far this time, she really did. She hit him, and then she acts like he can't hit her back. She hit him, he hit her.. that's how it goes, that's fair.. but there's always this small little voice in my head. It's wrong! I don't know how to explain it, but there's this something about him hurting her.. he have hurt her so bad, but he never phisically hurt her until now, and that's just it. He's right, he's wrong.. in the end, I'm confused.

Kate: Who is she?
Angel: She's no one.

Always breaks my heart. I know he didn't have time to explain, but no one, God, it's a really harsh term for someone who used to be your everything. Then she hits back about Riley.. "I trust him. I know him." Well that's just great. First time I thought Buffy is a liar. She trusted Angel, if she didn't, she would never let him drink from her. She knew him.. she knew when something was bugging him. This is not a good episode for one Bangel lover, and I don't know if I'm glad or sad because it's never discussed after.

 

[BibliophileAnn]

That scene in Sactuary wasn't the first time Angel punched Buffy. He hits her in Amends and then later in Enemies in season 3. That one knocks her out. That "She's No One" bugged me to, perhaps it was just too complicated to explain who Buffy was.
I always want Buffy and Angel to start laughing in the fight scene in Sanctuary because if they had the fight would have been over.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

That scene in Sactuary wasn't the first time Angel punched Buffy. He hits her in Amends and then later in Enemies in season 3. That one knocks her out. That "She's No One" bugged me to, perhaps it was just too complicated to explain who Buffy was.
I always want Buffy and Angel to start laughing in the fight scene in Sanctuary because if they had the fight would have been over.

I know, be he hit her because of her. In Amends, he hit her because she was on his was, and in Enemies, he had to. But like she says here, it was because of Faith. I don't think it was big deal because he hit her, but why did he hit her. That was bugging her, but she showed it roughly. Drama queen.. or how Faith said it, control freak.

He could've said "Someone I know.", "Old friend." or something.. but no one.. it really sounded little harsh.

I just wanted her to stop talking. Just to stop. To say she made a mistake, or he to say that she should've told her what was going on. To explain her, or her to explain what happened.. in details. I just wanted them to stop fighting. I wasn't craving for another beautiful romantic scene.. I just wanted them to hug and say goodbye in peace. :embarrassed:

 

[BibliophileAnn]

If Buffy and Angel had kept in touch the fight in Sanctuary might not have happened at all. I wasn't craving a romantic scene either but a more friendlier one would have been better. But they made up on Buffy in the Yoko Factor.

 

[Marisa]

I am going to be completely honest I hated Buffy in this episode. The way she was, she was just not Buffy. I understand she was mad at Faith but Angel was trying to do a good thing. Maybe if she had seen the scene we saw at the end of Five by Five she would have been a little more accepting who knows.
Another thing that irked me was her reaction to Angel, she comes to his town and seems like she is deliberately trying to hurt him IMO.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

If Buffy and Angel had kept in touch the fight in Sanctuary might not have happened at all. I wasn't craving a romantic scene either but a more friendlier one would have been better. But they made up on Buffy in the Yoko Factor.

I agree. But then again, keeping in touch would be a bad idea. They could never move on if they stayed in touch, there were too many feelings involved. Yeah, you're right, they did made up. "Next time I'll apologize by phone." - that never happened! Thank God! 🙂

 

[BibliophileAnn]

I agree. But then again, keeping in touch would be a bad idea. They could never move on if they stayed in touch, there were too many feelings involved. Yeah, you're right, they did made up. "Next time I'll apologize by phone." - that never happened! Thank God! 🙂

I didn't mean stay in touch all the time just that if Buffy had just a little idea of what Angel's work entailed then she might not have interfered even if it was Faith he was helping.

 

[msfantastico87]

I absolutely love this episode!!! Faith trying to apologize is just a weird moment though lol Also, Did anyone kind of jump with glee when Buffy was there trying to go after Faith and Angel bitch punched her? hahahaahhaaha i thought she deserved that for not hearing Angel out. Then again you Bangels probably hate me for saying that. Oh! and If Wes was actually going to follow through with his plan, I think I would have hated him forever! Glad he didn't though.

And at the end when Buffy is all like "i have a boyfriend...blah blah blah...i trust him...blah blah blah", I was just like ah right...Riley. I hate him. And no, you can't trust him!!

 

[Ms.Trick]

I really love this episode, it shows sides of Faith you never get to see in Buffy!
I mean, in Buffy, Faith go bad, comes back bad, leaves, comes back good. Watching just Buffy isn't enough to grasp the character of Faith.

It was kind of sweet to see her struggle, because you see she wants to be forgiven but she doesn't think people will ever forgive her. You see how much sorry she is, and that she understands how wrong she acted, like when she says she acted like she had all the rights in her friendship with Buffy, and the way she says "Oh no, Buffy..." like she was going to cry made me like her!

And when she tried to apologize to Buffy, I was thinking "Go, Faith, go!"
On the roof, Buffy seemed kind of lost when Faith told her that on her side, everything was out of control and she couldn't understand.
But I loved how Buffy seemed to forget everything about their problems when they were in danger, she could have abandon Faith, but she didn't, and that was noble.

My favourite moment was when Faith went to the Police all by herself. She was finally ready to accept the consequences of her acts, and slowly started to dig her way to redemption.

Really, amazing episode!

 

[VisionGirl]

And with the whole faith saga do you no0tice how trust seems to be a re-occuring theme ? from wesley being angry that giles didnt fill him in on things, how faith not trusting anyone, from the watchers council not really trusting the scoobies or giles, to willow not trusting faith, to buffy not trusting, well, etc etc

Hadn't thought about that before, but yes, lots of that in here!

I really love this episode, it shows sides of Faith you never get to see in Buffy!
I mean, in Buffy, Faith go bad, comes back bad, leaves, comes back good. Watching just Buffy isn't enough to grasp the character of Faith.

I completely agree. It's why I'm always urging folks on here who haven't watched ATS to watch it if only for the crossovers. I think the Faith story in this season and season 4Angel/7Buffy is the best crossover event in both series. Fabulously done.

My favourite moment was when Faith went to the Police all by herself. She was finally ready to accept the consequences of her acts, and slowly started to dig her way to redemption.

Yes. Somebody said earlier that they didn't like the jail aspect, that she would do more good working with Angel. That may be true, but she had to go to jail, and it had to be her choice, to work out her redemption. That real change had to come from within, as Angel said she had to feel the feelings and deal with it. And for her it wasn't going to come easily or quickly. She probably had lots of time in jail to think about this stuff, deal with it mentally. Of course when it was time for her to break out, she was ready LOL!

Really, amazing episode!

I concur! 🙂

And look at what I found- Joss talking about this episode and the last scene in particular:

The last scene between Buffy and Angel in the crossover where she comes to Angel, that stumped us for a long time. And I finally realized when I was working on it that it's because they need to fight now. They can't be just like, 'Oh, we're swell pals and we get along.' They really are at very different places in their lives and it's very difficult for them to see each other. So it really helped define how the shows are different and it ends up with Angel laying into Buffy a little bit and saying, 'I've got my own show now, and it's different from your show, so get off my show!' That's basically what he's saying. And the moment I wrote that scene, I got very excited and I said, 'I get it now. I understand what Angel is and it's not Buffy,' and I felt like the training wheels came off.[3]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctuary_(Angel_episode)

And I completely forgot the X-Files reference: that was awesome! Wow, Kate with some good lines for once.

 

[PDH5204]

Buffy: I gave you every chance! I tried so hard to help you, and you spat on me. My life was just something for you to play with. Angel - Riley - anything that you could take from me - you took. I've lost battles before - but nobody else has ever made me a victim.
Faith: And you can't stand that. You're all about control. You have no idea what it's like on the other side! Where nothing's in control, nothing makes sense! There is just pain and hate and nothing you do means anything. You can't even..."
Buffy: Shut up!

For the soul who said something about Faith trying to turn it around, no. Buffy tells her to shut up because Faith is about to start hitting too close to home (as it were). Catch the look on Buffy's face when she says "shut up". She isn't angry with Faith. And note the word that would logically follow...you can't even imagine...but Buffy can imagine and doesn't want go there, so "shut up." I forget which episode it was, but prior to this Buffy in fact remarks that she could have ended up like Faith. For one more, and the Buffy fans won't like this, but Buffy failed Faith in the beginning. Go back and watch the ep with the murder and the next few in line. Faith says that it doesn't matter, but you can see on her face and in some of the things she says, that it matters a whole heckuva lot. If you've ever seen the one Viet Nam War film, there's that line, to wit, we said, it don't mean nothing, and what we meant was that it meant everything (i.e., in order not to be swallowed up by the guilt, etc., Faith had to pretend, or lie to herself, and try to believe that it didn't mean anything). That's Faith, at least in the immediate aftermath. And the Buffster should've known that.

Lastly, and by the way, best line of the ep is Wes' "last" line here:

Wesley: Angel, it wasn't for her.
Angel: I know.
Wesley: It's because I trust you. Well, more than three gun-toting maniacs at any rate.

Oh, and chalk one up for the trust meme.