Angel ep by ep; UNDERNEATH-submachineguns and suburbia

[saturn5]

UNDERNEATH

The Good;
All the Lindsey stuff is great and love the appearance of Marcus and everyone's reaction to it. Love the Spike/Angel conference complete with beer.

The Bad;
How does Lindsey know Fred and Cordy are dead? Or is he referring to Doyle and Gunn? You can see the perspective gag when Marcus punches through the security guard. The background on the roof set which Wes and Illyria stand on is obviously fake.

Best line;
Angel; "Bad things always happen here, Spike"
Spike; "Hate to break it to you mate but bad things happen everywhere"

Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Lindsey/Gunn have their own personal torture chamber. Spike just picks up the hearts with his bare hands.

Apocalypses: 5 Spike and Angel have a discussion over what qualifies as an apocalypse. Lindsey informs them they're actually living in an apocalypse.

Angel Cliches

Subverting the Hollywood cliche; Marcus doesn't want to fight, just to get Eve to sign her contract.

In disguise; 8

DB/JM get's his shirt off; 19, Lorne takes the bullets out of Spike

Cheap Angel; 8

Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 15
Wes: 8
Gunn; 8
Lorne; 6
Fred; 5
Spike; 6

Fang gang knocked out:
Cordy: 15
Angel: 20
Wes: 10
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 8
Groo; 1
Connor; 1
Faith; 1
Fred; 7
Spike; 5

Kills;
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 48 vamps, 67 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 12 humans, one werewolf and one cyborg
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 16 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 4 humans, 2 cyborgs
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 15 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamps+ 14 demons, 5 zombies
Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons, Jasmine
Spike; 21 vamps, 12 demons+1 human+one parasite
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 3
Angel: 3
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang; suburban Gunn
Cordy: 4
Angel: 12
Fred; 3
Wes; 1
Gunn; 2
Connor; 1
Lorne; 1

Characters killed: poor WR&H security guard
2265

Recurring characters killed; Eve realises that she's going to die just like Anya in Buffy.
12

Total number of Angel Investigations; 5,
Angel, Gunn, Lorne, Wes, Spike

Angel Investigations shot: Spike and Angel
Angel: 15
Wes; 2
Spike; 1

Packing heat; not the gang but you've got to love a series with Uzi toting soccer moms!
Wes; 13
Doyle; 1
Angel; 4
Gunn; 3
Fred; 5

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast
Angel: 6; Buffy, Darla, The Transcending Furies, Eve
Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 2 possible, Justine, Fred
Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen.
Fred; 1 Gunn, 1 possible Wes
Groo; 1Cordy
Spike; 3-Buffy, Anya, Harmony

Kinky dinky:
Spike talks about 'pounding the neighbours wife'.

Captain Subtext;
Angel and Lorne comment on how well dressed Marcus is. Lindsey's wife is very reminiscent of Darla, you wonder if Angel and Spike are thinking that when then they open the door. Gunn obviously wants to be punished. Illyria says 'We' are so weak?

Know the face, different character; 7

Parking garages; oh yeah
10,

Guantanamo Bay;
Harmony has been told 'No torture' by Angel. Lorne is shocked when Angel reveals he left Gunn behind. The Wrath!

Buffy characters on Angel; 17
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil, Andrew.

What the fanficcers thought; .

Missing scenes;

Questions and observations;
Spike refers to Knightrider, he shouldn't have teased the Geeks! Spike asks what the collective name for the Angel gang is, we never quite decided, like AI and the Fang Gang personally. It's actually Spike who comes up with the idea of talking to Eve. Harmony in the title sequence, how great, MM in the show right from the pilot, now a regular. They talked about the Lorne Green idea before in Happy Anniverasry. Am I missing something about Wes' joke? The world without shrimp is referenced again, this time the world with it. Eve is the child of the senior partners but doesn't even know who or what they are? But surely Illyria does? Are all the inhabitants in the holding dimension prisoners? Do we ever see Gunn in his suit again? And he's shaved his head. Surely he must wear a suit for court? The partners obviously think a lot of Lindsey, keeping him alive to decide if he'll still be useful. What does 'blocking' mean? It's been 4 months since 'You're welcome'. Gunn actually comes across really well as the family man. Does Marcus represent the WB suits who cancelled Angel?
Marks out of 10; 8/10 for the holding dimension stuff alone

 

[MinwaraYana]

Haha, it's funny when Spike has no problem with picking up the heart, but says "Eww" and dumped it when he knows it's Lindsey's. 😀

Good idea of torture dimension. Machine guns in a sweet wife's and a boy's hands is just interesting.

I thought Marcus is gonna kill Eve, duh! I was so worry about her. But it's understandable if you are immortal and someone is gonna take it away from you.

 

[Kana]

Not sure if I wrote about this episode but...

Angel

"It's still their world...it's a structure for power not justice"

One of the reasons I like Holland Manners was because of conviction of where he belonged. This is something every person has to ask themselves. Angel asked why W&H fight but Holland replied there is no fight. What seperates them from the other villains in the Verse is that essentially their plan is realised. The only way to hurt them? Small victories and showing the world that W&H doesn't own them and as weak as mankind is human dignity is always something worth fighting for as long as they have the ability to chose (More on that in NFA).

Angel makes a stride towards this in his conversation with Spike. He doesn't want to wait, he wants to see the next move. We talked before about placing meaning in a meaningless world and this exchange articulates that in a manner.

However it isn't all nobility here. Angel feels guilty for Fred's death as he doesn't believe she would have been killed had it not been for their move. Spike attempts to consol him by telling her it was her choice to come here. Angel cannot help but believe it was because of their affected memories that they agreed in the first place.

Whether he's responsible or not, he is not going to sit there and wait...but he finds as he figuring out what the SPs next move is, they are already playing their hand, they have been for a very long while now.

Gunn's atonement...

We have to wonder...is it atonement Gunn is seeking or merely self punishment. The two are not always the same thing...Angel should know that.

Maybe a void really was impossible. Certainly Gunn could have worked it so he didn't stay behind but not without another compromise, he's done making deals.

Again Angel talking to Gunn ties in with placing meaning in Fred's death. Sitting there wallowing won't help anyone. Going back to Angel, he made a choice to go to W&H and stay there. I made a comment before about Gunn saying there will be consequences if they leave and I believe he may be right but the same is true about staying as well. One has to accept the consequences and decide positively what to do. Sleepwalking or not considering your options, isn't an option. Even Cordy who hated the idea of Angel being at W&H understood that it's important for Angel to get that fire back whether he chooses to stay not. Fred dying is a result of coming to W&H, ok that's tragic but what are they going to do about that?

Gunn payed a high price and so did Angel, what matters is the choices they make now and how they learn from their mistakes and seeing if any good can come out tragedy.

Wesley's joke.

I think I was on another forum when I was trying figure about Wesley's joke. I admit, I couldn't at first and maybe I still don't get it but here we go anyway.

"I thought I was in isolation."

This is how Wesley feels. It goes back to existential angst.

"Whose fault is that?"

Wesley is partly feeling lonely because he's cutting himself off. Angel learnt that no matter how bad you feel, it's important to reconnect. He says this in Origin I think so more on that later.

"Tell me a joke."

I like this line because it ties in with Fred liking a certain type of funny. Wesley is actually very witty but it's controlled subtle. The joke Wes tells doesn't strike us as inherently funny but the absurdity of dreams replacing reality is part of what we are getting at.

"2 men walk into a bar."

Wesley is both of these men. We talked about Angel and Angelus before but this ties in with a man who is forced into two personas because of pain he has experienced.


"The first man orders a scotch and soda.The second man remembers something he'd forgotten, and it doubles him over with pain."

Lorne mentioned these two men in Time Bomb. One is the funny 'drunk' and the other is the almost crippled man broken over the memory of Fred.

"He falls to the floor shaking.... and then through the floor and into the Earth"

Is this indicating how far Wes is falling?

"He looks back up at the first man, but he doesn't call out to him.(looks
down at Fred) They're not that close"

Wesley feeling so effected that he has fragmented his persona. The other man could also represent his ideal self and how far away it is. Does Wes not believe there is any hope of striving for it?

"Yeah. You always know where you are."

Both personally for Wes and thematically this is an ironic statement. Wes is feeling lost yet he is man who has alway been about self control and knowledge but no matter how many books he reads, this kind of knowledge wont save him.

He wakes and all he finds is Illyria no Fred. Both Illyria and Wes are still 'clinging to what is lost' both clinging to the memory of what is, associated in their isolation.

I like Wesley's speech about breaking out of the walls. Both Illyria and Wes feel unable to do this, to move onto the new possibilities of which he spoke in Shells. Wesley admits openly, that yes he is weak but then so is the rest of mankind. We lock ourselves into our routines and cling to what we know even if it is pain because we are so afraid of breaking through the shackles of our self imposed chains. It is possible that the possibilities will be too much for us, but holding on to the past can also destroy us and Illyria will find this can be literally true in Time Bomb.

Lorne is interesting because we see that part of 'middle of the road' view is attributed to fear. Fear of telling it like it is. We see this at the end of the ep when Lorne finds out that Gunn stayed behind. Lorne said that he is willing to keep up the pretence and that's what he does: Lorne tone is light when he says what he says but the message is not. He's clearly pissed that this is what they are pushed to, leaving members of the group behind, making shady deals etc. I don't think he's simply angry at Angel (although I think he is a little) as the Green monster showed us in LOTP, he's pissed at himself.

Lindsay!!!!!!!!!!! The question I was asking all season is...what is motivating Lindsay? No, I'll leave it again. I think it's far more relevant to PP and NFA. In any respect Lindsay is definitely the man to help Angel find out who he was. He mirrors the champion speech that Angel told Connor. They realise that Lindsay is a powerful threat (something I guess Angel agrees with) in any event, he's a resource.

Hamilton says something very interesting.

"Angel, Spike, welcome to the team"

Hang on. What are Angel and Spike? Soulled vampires. What's another word for team? Side. What were Lindsay, Spike and Angel all going on about this ep? Apocalypse. Where have we heard these words before? It seems this is yet another reference to the Shanshu prophecy. Now many have said that Angel being drawn to the scroll that talks about THE VAMPIRE WITH A SOUL is no coincidence and I really agree. It also can't be a coincidence that they used that very scroll to heal Cordy and link Angel back with the PTBs, again, this surely cannot be a coincidence. I don't believe it is, I believe it's the powers who lead Angel to the scroll to give him hope of a design for the future with his place in it. Here's the twist (in case you thought I was implying Angel is the one) I believe the PTBs used it as a carrot to motivate Angel to help. It's important that he has hope in himself no doubt but I believe the PTBs thought it would keep Angel 'connected'(of course we'll see later on that Angel doesn't need a prophecy to keep in connected more on that in NFA.) Anyway the SPs and Lindsay all use the prophecy to try and manipulate Angel and now Spike who is now eligible. Many don't like th Shanshu but I love it for this very reason, the purpose it serves for the narrative.