Angel & Faith Season 10

[white avenger]

At the moment, we've got Faith in California and Angel in England. Since they share the title of the book, it would seem to be a safe bet that, eventually, the two will be reunited. Where would you prefer that to be?

Personally, I would prefer them to move back to Los Angeles, if for no other reason than to bring the remnants of Angel's old gang back into the story line. Angel managed to bring Giles back, why couldn't he try the same thing with Wes or Cordy?

Gunn, Connor, Kate, Nina, and Lorne should still be around, so Angel Investigations has a full staff, just waiting to go back to work.

 

[Kean]

I have two thoughts on this that I jump back and forth on:

1. Joss really meant it when he said Illyria was the main reason he wanted DH to have the rights to Angel so he could have access to the Angel characters that hadn't originated on Buffy. It would appear that there is no interest in telling stories involving the other characters.

2. While the name of the book is Angel & Faith, it is under the umbrella of Buffy Season 10. This isn't the continuation of Ats, it is the other half of Buffy's story at the present time. I get the impression that Angel won't be back in L.A. unless it is for an official Ats S6/S7 continuation, and I'm pretty sure ATF covered all the story Whedon wanted to tell in that respect.

 

[ladydorotea]

he said Illyria was the main reason he wanted DH to have the rights to Angel

Are you seriously sure about this one? Because if this is true, than what's the point? I suppose I could have missed this; but if this is true than all comics continuation is sheer crap, sorry for my french.

 

[thetopher]

I have two thoughts on this that I jump back and forth on:

1. Joss really meant it when he said Illyria was the main reason he wanted DH to have the rights to Angel so he could have access to the Angel characters that hadn't originated on Buffy. It would appear that there is no interest in telling stories involving the other characters.

2. While the name of the book is Angel & Faith, it is under the umbrella of Buffy Season 10. This isn't the continuation of Ats, it is the other half of Buffy's story at the present time. I get the impression that Angel won't be back in L.A. unless it is for an official Ats S6/S7 continuation, and I'm pretty sure ATF covered all the story Whedon wanted to tell in that respect.

If this is true then I guess it explains Twilight...🙁

And after having read the IDW Angel stuff, I would inclined to disgard everything after 'ATF', becasue it felt really generic to me.
But A&F sure felt like a continuation of AtS, it had Conner and Gunn in it for a major arc, Drusilla and Harmony as well. Whistler...

Basically it was so much better written the Buffy S9 that I consider it its own 'show' and not under anything else's 'umbrella'.
Plus sticking Faith in a book doesn't seem to matter to anybody justs irks me. She's pretty much one of the only characters one's noticably changed, grown and improved in the comics and her character had become richer for it.
So, as far as I'm concerned AtS lives! And, so far, is consistently better than Buffy.

I really would like to see the return of Conner (he's Angel's fricking son for crying out loud- its like having Dawn seperate from Buffy.) and maybe a cameo from Cordy or Wes (I'm a little wary of resurrecting another character so soon after the whole Giles arc) in the new series, but I think Gunn belongs in LA and I can't see any new stories to tell with the character.

 

[ladydorotea]

Plus sticking Faith in a book doesn't seem to matter to anybody justs irks me. She's pretty much one of the only characters one's noticably changed, grown and improved in the comics and her character had become richer for it.

Well, everybody here has a favorite character or two, and also a character or two that rubs them the wrong way, or simply just is not their favorite. Just saying. Personally, I really loved Faith's arc in S8, and it was my second favorite arc of that season. Post S8, I really find her being more of Echo than Faith. Maybe because I cannot 'get her' in the comics media, or maybe because putting her 'on the title' in my opinion steals half the space that would have been Angel's. I think I would really enjoy Faith spin off though, it is just the A&F format past and present that makes me wish Faith was in her own book.

Also 'character growth' as an idiom really really irks me every time I see it used. Root vegetables and cysts 'grow'; characters develop - in real stories with beginnings and endings anyhow. In Whedon's stories though, maybe because they are so serialized by nature (?), everybody has to go through a dark stage or two, or three, or five , because by his own admission he finds 'heroes' boring. His 'redemption arcs' don't stick either, because once the character is 'on the path of goodness and correction', they have to be destroyed all over again or it 'becomes boring'. So, nyeah-ah, I am not buying new and all mature Faith just yet, because I kind of (also) find her boring ? I hope she gets into another interesting self-destructive arc, (that obviously will end with another redemption), but other than that I don't find her any 'richer' in the comics. Maybe because in the comics as well as in the original tv series Faith never has any meaningful relationships that don't end up with her being jealous of her newly found 'ship' going back to Buffy? Maybe because she dumps everybody who is good for her, because she is afraid to get too attached? I don't know. I wish Robin Wood will become a part of her circle - if only to see Faith react and show some emotion other than 'it feels like mine, so it is probably yours'.

 

[thetopher]

Well, everybody here has a favorite character or two, and also a character or two that rubs them the wrong way, or simply just is not their favorite. Just saying. Personally, I really loved Faith's arc in S8, and it was my second favorite arc of that season. Post S8, I really find her being more of Echo than Faith. Maybe because I cannot 'get her' in the comics media, or maybe because putting her 'on the title' in my opinion steals half the space that would have been Angel's. I think I would really enjoy Faith spin off though, it is just the A&F format past and present that makes me wish Faith was in her own book.

Also 'character growth' as an idiom really really irks me every time I see it used. Root vegetables and cysts 'grow'; characters develop - in real stories with beginnings and endings anyhow. In Whedon's stories though, maybe because they are so serialized by nature (?), everybody has to go through a dark stage or two, or three, or five , because by his own admission he finds 'heroes' boring. His 'redemption arcs' don't stick either, because once the character is 'on the path of goodness and correction', they have to be destroyed all over again or it 'becomes boring'. So, nyeah-ah, I am not buying new and all mature Faith just yet, because I kind of (also) find her boring ? I hope she gets into another interesting self-destructive arc, (that obviously will end with another redemption), but other than that I don't find her any 'richer' in the comics. Maybe because in the comics as well as in the original tv series Faith never has any meaningful relationships that don't end up with her being jealous of her newly found 'ship' going back to Buffy? Maybe because she dumps everybody who is good for her, because she is afraid to get too attached? I don't know. I wish Robin Wood will become a part of her circle - if only to see Faith react and show some emotion other than 'it feels like mine, so it is probably yours'.

I do see your point, Faith has developed, what I meant was matured, but I didn't find her struggle in A&F boring, she still screwed up a few times ('Daddy Issues' springs to mind.) and by the end hadn't really come out ahead (she loses the slayers she was in charge of, loses Nadira to vengeance, she loses Giles as he decides to ditch her, again, for Buffy. That's why she wants to try her own path.)

Faith hasn't been near Buffy since S8, and the writers seem content in keeping them seperate, which I find disappointing. I would like to see them bond, just a little, and who knows, maybe its finally on the cards. Their relationship needs to, in your words, develop into something else that's less antagonistic.

And I disagree slightly, Faith has had plenty of good relationships, with Angel, with Wesley (partly why I would like him to return, in ghost form or something) and Giles (both old and youthified) spring to mind.

But I would like to see a romantic relationship for Faith, which I think is what you were getting at. I'd like to see her develop in that direction, because it is really fertile ground for her character that's so far completely untouched. There are so many stories there to deal with her 'man-issues'.

Faith's relationship with Wood bored the hell out of me from the get-go, there was intial attraction, she'd been in jail for three years, he had a thing for slayers, and that was it. 🙄
I saw little evidence that he was a 'nice guy' in his interactions with her. I'm glad they ditched it at the first opportunity and went on to something else. 🙂

Oh, and there indications in the comics that Faith is going to foul up again, big time. So you might get your wish...

 

[ladydorotea]

And I disagree slightly, Faith has had plenty of good relationships, with Angel, with Wesley (partly why I would like him to return, in ghost form or something) and Giles (both old and youthified) spring to mind.

See, but that's exactly my drivel here. Out of three you mention two are 'Buffy's leavings', so to speak, and with Wesley they had a potential to have this really corrosive partnership ( I don't think he ever forgave her the torture session that was totally psychotic self-hate-related outbreak), but she moved and he dies before it went anywhere.

But I would like to see a romantic relationship for Faith, which I think is what you were getting at. I'd like to see her develop in that direction, because it is really fertile ground for her character that's so far completely untouched. There are so many stories there to deal with her 'man-issues'.

Yup, but Whedon keeps avoiding romance for Faith like a plague. I am not sure why, maybe for the same reason Echo's romance/s never flied for her either? Elisa is stunningly attractive, but somehow she is also an opposite of romantic. (And I suspect Mr. W is a closet romantic, very very deeply inside, because lets face it, a lot of the stuff he writes is quite sappy, besides being morbid.)

Faith's relationship with Wood bored the hell out of me from the get-go, there was intial attraction, she'd been in jail for three years, he had a thing for slayers, and that was it. I saw little evidence that he was a 'nice guy' in his interactions with her. I'm glad they ditched it at the first opportunity and went on to something else. 🙂

Well, I would not have wanted Wood back for romance, but for tension and extra baggage. And because he was yet another human being Faith jumped on 'for relief' and then dumped. Her and Xander never got explored because of reasons, they could have used Wood as a substitute.

Oh, and there indications in the comics that Faith is going to foul up again, big time. So you might get your wish...

I would have really liked Faith side of the S10 to develop in the direction of 'Mission Impossibles' , but with girls only crew. But I suspect they are going the way of Kennedy is a 'capitalist pig' of a Slayer instead. I bet you, wa is going to be pissed at that story. 🙂

 

[thetopher]

I would say, on viewing a lot of her stuff, that Eliza does romance just fine, in 'Tru Calling' or in 'Echo' she managed the relationship stuff in quite a warm way. She does tend to get typecast though, so maybe there's some truth in the perception that she can't do 'gooey romanctic stuff'.

And Faith...I get why Joss might not view her character that way, but he's missing a chance to do something different with her, hopefully some other writer will spot the opportunity.

About Wesley and Faith, I think Wesley was damaged enough by then to actually see how Faith got so screwed up herself, and that maybe he forgave her, or began to forgive her (although, honestly, brutally torturing Wesley for hours was way worse than anything Faith did to Buffy. it was probably one of the most evil things she did. I wouldn't blame Wes if he didn't.)
They certainly seemed able to trust/comfort each other whilst on the hunt for Angelus.
Still...it seems we'll never know. 🙁

And about 'deepscan'...I'm guessing its either going to be, as you say, some sort of eithical/morality thing (remember, Buffy was against it in the end so its probably evil in some way. 🙄 ), or Kennedy and her slayers are being manipulated by someone/something.