Angel gets quoted as message of Equality

[Black Eye Guy]

This is awesome.

What makes it cooler is that it's normally Buffy that has the references out there quoted by people, it's nice to see one from Angel.

I saw it via Whedonesque on Tumblr, original here

A Russian woman quotes Angel as inspiration for her motivation to continue protesting Russia's anti-LGBT laws and mindset.

 

[Blaze]

Amazing! Totally loving this!

And on the topic, this year's Olympic controversies and some of the conditions in Russia are atrocious, but seeing everyone from all over the world step in and defend people's rights as well as animal's rights has been amazing!

 

[ladydorotea]

Ahem, I am sort of sorry for not being overly excited by something as double-sided as this. Especially because it was perpetrated by a fellow Russian lady.

Mostly because I am consciously aware that the main reason that the US news channels are so vocal about (rather silly and unenforceable) law is because the US government and its media wants to get back to Russia over (1) giving asylum to Edward Snowden, and (2) for Putin being instrumental in preventing the said US government from allowing their allies such as Saudi Arabia ( that basically supports Al Qaeda in Syria) from bombing the non-muslim and secular Suryan population into the ground.

The silly law itself 'forbids gay life style propaganda around elementary schools and kindergartens' to quote from the source, and was voted in by equally silly right-wing politicians wanting to please their elderly and conservative constituents. I am not proud of Russia being backwards and somewhat ridiculous on this account, but I am equally cringe-y about using Angel quote ( while denouncing and disliking the character who said this ) for something that I think supports US foreign policy agenda that has little to do with gay rights and everything with Realpolitik.

PS

I just returned from Russia where I was visiting relatives and friends and want to assure you that majority of the population - in Moscow at least - are completely oblivious to the controversy over gay law but are disgusted over the second Olympics being hosted by the country being turned into circus over some vicious international agenda games.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

Wait... I just saw this on Buzzfeed, which shows more of it and a link to the clip (http://www.buzzfeed.com/ellievhall/the-daily-show-found-a-woman-in-russia-to-speak-out-for-lgbt)

Was this you [MENTION=10218]Moscow Watcher[/MENTION] ?

---------- Post added at 12:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:02 AM ----------

Ahem, I am sort of sorry for not being overly excited by something as double-sided as this. Especially because it was perpetrated by a fellow Russian lady.

Mostly because I am consciously aware that the main reason that the US news channels are so vocal about (rather silly and unenforceable) law is because the US government and its media wants to get back to Russia over (1) giving asylum to Edward Snowden, and (2) for Putin being instrumental in preventing the said US government from allowing their allies such as Saudi Arabia ( that basically supports Al Qaeda in Syria) from bombing the non-muslim and secular Suryan population into the ground.

The silly law itself 'forbids gay life style propaganda around elementary schools and kindergartens' to quote from the source, and was voted in by equally silly right-wing politicians wanting to please their elderly and conservative constituents. I am not proud of Russia being backwards and somewhat ridiculous on this account, but I am equally cringe-y about using Angel quote ( while denouncing and disliking the character who said this ) for something that I think supports US foreign policy agenda that has little to do with gay rights and everything with Realpolitik.

Sorry thats horse crap, I'm in Ireland and dont care about either of those things, other people care about it to, it's not a political thing the issue is being talked about everywhere not just in the US.

 

[Blaze]

Ahem, I am sort of sorry for not being overly excited by something as double-sided as this. Especially because it was perpetrated by a fellow Russian lady.

Mostly because I am consciously aware that the main reason that the US news channels are so vocal about (rather silly and unenforceable) law is because the US government and its media wants to get back to Russia over (1) giving asylum to Edward Snowden, and (2) for Putin being instrumental in preventing the said US government from allowing their allies such as Saudi Arabia ( that basically supports Al Qaeda in Syria) from bombing the non-muslim and secular Suryan population into the ground.

The silly law itself 'forbids gay life style propaganda around elementary schools and kindergartens' to quote from the source, and was voted in by equally silly right-wing politicians wanting to please their elderly and conservative constituents. I am not proud of Russia being backwards and somewhat ridiculous on this account, but I am equally cringe-y about using Angel quote ( while denouncing and disliking the character who said this ) for something that I think supports US foreign policy agenda that has little to do with gay rights and everything with Realpolitik.

PS

I just returned from Russia where I was visiting relatives and friends and want to assure you that majority of the population - in Moscow at least - are completely oblivious to the controversy over gay law but are disgusted over the second Olympics being hosted by the country being turned into circus over some vicious international agenda games.

Okay, obviously I don't live in Russia so I can't comment on issues directly pertaining to you or any of your fellow Russians. But one thing I can comment on is human rights.

To be honest, you sound misinformed. You keep talking about the US propaganda but what about the countless countries that have voiced their opinion on the matter. And I don't think anyone is doing it out of revenge towards Russia, they are boycotting the law because it's the right thing to do. This also doesn't mean that they are boycotting Russia, which is a beautiful country, it just means that they are boycotting the law put in place in Russia. Under similar circumstances, a law like this would have created controversy no matter the country.

Again, this does not support a foreign policy agenda, it supports human rights! It is by no means a silly law, I do believe that it is a serious topic. Saying that it's some vicious international agenda games is just offensive to me, because fighting for gay rights isn't any type of propaganda or agenda.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

^Agreed, even thinking on it, In the media it isn't being pointed out as a fault with Russia, it has come across to me as all blame being pointed to Putin.

Any time anything happens in the US, the world goes to the stereotype of the gun toting American and the entire country gets put down, you often see the phrase "typical Americans". From my perspective all media has made a joke of Putin, not Russia, or the Russian people. Which is rare that a single person gets blame like that rather then a country stereotype.

 

[ladydorotea]

I can't even tell if you're being serious or not.

Oh, I am serious. I also am very serious about saying what *I think* is true, whether it is popular or not, whether it will make me quite unpopular or not. Don't hesitate to blast me over what I think, I have all the confidence it needs to be said.

 

[Kean]

Very well said [MENTION=10218]Moscow Watcher[/MENTION]. Congrats on all the love and Joss tweet 🙂

 

[Moscow Watcher]

@ Black Eye Guy Yes, it was me.

@ Kean - thank you! I'm embarrassed. I didn't know that I was interviewed for a popular show. I thought it was some news channel. In any case, this line really corresponds with my current state of mind. Overall, I'm pessimistic about Russia's future, but I hope to be wrong. My son critisizes my attitude - he believes that his generation can change Russia.

[MENTION=9316]ladydorotea[/MENTION] - you are wrong about me denouncing and disliking Angel. I love him. I dislike what the writers did to him in season 8. If you don't believe me, check my LJ, read the stories I wrote for Bangel ficathons, for a Spangel ficathon. Check the Angel-related avis I did for LJ project Fantas_magoria.

If one loves apples it doesn't mean one hates oranges. If I love Spike it doesn't mean I hate Angel.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

@ Black Eye Guy Yes, it was me.

@ Kean - thank you! I'm embarrassed. I didn't know that I was interviewed for a popular show. I thought it was some news channel. In any case, this line really corresponds with my current state of mind. Overall, I'm pessimistic about Russia's future, but I hope to be wrong. My son critisizes my attitude - he believes that his generation can change Russia.

[MENTION=9316]ladydorotea[/MENTION] - you are wrong about me denouncing and disliking Angel. I love him. I dislike what the writers did to him in season 8. If you don't believe me, check my LJ, read the stories I wrote for Bangel ficathons, for a Spangel ficathon. Check the Angel-related avis I did for LJ project Fantas_magoria.

If one loves apples it doesn't mean one hates oranges. If I love Spike it doesn't mean I hate Angel.

That is brilliant, no need for embarrassment at all!

Even if you did hate Angel, It shouldn't matter when quoting a line of his, you dont have to like a character to like/be inspired by a line they say!

Congrats, it's a really great thing to see (also congrats on going viral 😉 )

 

[ladydorotea]

I wish everything in politics and media campaigns was simple black and white, unfortunately it is not. But you are welcome to believe it is. (You are also welcome to give me more negative rep, for speaking out my mind.)

Vladimir freaking Putin is the good guy in this scenario, not the U.S. Sure. Just out of curiousity, what does the U.S. invading Syria gain the U.S.? What is the dastardly hidden agenda your're hinting at? I'm dying to hear this.

(US or Saudis invading Syria gains the US regime change and as result loss of Russian navy base in Syria, plus gain of regional influence to Saudis over Iran. It is murky politics, but basically Iran is run by the shia and supposedly they are allied with Syrian alawite government. Also, US ally Israel in the region gains the Golan Heights aka Syrian Golan permanently - if the new regime in Syria permanently denounces its rights to the land. I mean, it is all very very regional but at the same time very important on the grand scale of things. Do some research of your own on the net if you wish. )

I am not a big fan of VVP at this stage of his political career - in fact everybody in Russia is as tired of him as we can be. But gosh if the whole thing with the gay rights on western tv during the Olympics did not piss off the majority of the population - that is neither anti-gay nor anti-american btw - for the heck of it being done so in-your-face and that after these folks did their best to build the facilities and provide best services to the competitors. It is like Russia cannot do anything right - because it is never enough. I think actually the net result of the Daily Show run is more anti-gay sentiments among the folks that are just irritated over the what they perceive as Western scorn vis-a-vis Russia.

No offence to MW btw, and congrats on your tv debut and Whedons personal twit.

as for the fanfics, I dont read them , I don't write them, and they are just not my cup of tea, so I have no clue who is who in fanfic 'verses' be it pro- or anti- any pairings. I stick to my canon, even though at times it is quite upsetting.

 

[Blaze]

But gosh if the whole thing with the gay rights on western tv during the Olympics did not piss off the majority of the population - that is neither anti-gay nor anti-american btw - for the heck of it being done so in-your-face and that after these folks did their best to build the facilities and provide best services to the competitors.

I couldn't disagree more. You're talking about this like it's unimportant to denounce inequality. I'm sorry but everyone that I know is still watching the Olympics, everyone I know is still supporting the athletes. Sending a message about gay rights shouldn't piss the population if it's not even aimed at them. I don't think threatening competitors with punishment if they display their pride is providing them the best service.

Nothing is ever gonna change if the world isn't ready to make the change happen. This is why I applaud [MENTION=10218]Moscow Watcher[/MENTION], she is being part of the change, every small action counts.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

I wish everything in politics and media campaigns was simple black and white, unfortunately it is not. But you are welcome to believe it is. (You are also welcome to give me more negative rep, for speaking out my mind.)

(US or Saudis invading Syria gains the US regime change and as result loss of Russian navy base in Syria, plus gain of regional influence to Saudis over Iran. It is murky politics, but basically Iran is run by the shia and supposedly they are allied with Syrian alawite government. Also, US ally Israel in the region gains the Golan Heights aka Syrian Golan permanently - if the new regime in Syria permanently denounces its rights to the land. I mean, it is all very very regional but at the same time very important on the grand scale of things. Do some research of your own on the net if you wish. )

I am not a big fan of VVP at this stage of his political career - in fact everybody in Russia is as tired of him as we can be. But gosh if the whole thing with the gay rights on western tv during the Olympics did not piss off the majority of the population - that is neither anti-gay nor anti-american btw - for the heck of it being done so in-your-face and that after these folks did their best to build the facilities and provide best services to the competitors. It is like Russia cannot do anything right - because it is never enough. I think actually the net result of the Daily Show run is more anti-gay sentiments among the folks that are just irritated over the what they perceive as Western scorn vis-a-vis Russia.

No offence to MW btw, and congrats on your tv debut and Whedons personal twit.

as for the fanfics, I dont read them , I don't write them, and they are just not my cup of tea, so I have no clue who is who in fanfic 'verses' be it pro- or anti- any pairings. I stick to my canon, even though at times it is quite upsetting.

Are you reading any international news covering the Olympics?

I can understand if you were Russian being annoyed by how much attention the gay issue got pre-show, but within the week before it started that has dropped to next to nothing as far as I've seen, I've heard nothing but praise for the ceremony and the stadium that was built, I've heard a number of toilet jokes and I've head more then a few paces report the opening ceremony as better then London becasue of some cool conveyor belt system used to move set pieces (I dont know as I don't care to watch, just cuz I dont find the Olympics interesting, summer or winter, no matter what country they are in)

You're also giving the US way more control over the media then it has, I would say more of an issue was made of the gay thing because of media like Twitter were everyone gets a say, and there are a number of high power positioned people in the media that are gay and cuz everyone even not in media gets to say whatever they like. If you have a large group they can make a lot of noise, as a great women once said
"And why did you have to offend the gay community!? It is the most organized of all the communities"
- Liz Lemon

I dont think any of this matters for you, It seems like a case of you made up your mind and will fit logic to suit your conclusion.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I love this! You rock [MENTION=10218]Moscow Watcher[/MENTION]! Thanks for posting.

 

[Robb Stark]

I wish everything in politics and media campaigns was simple black and white, unfortunately it is not. But you are welcome to believe it is. (You are also welcome to give me more negative rep, for speaking out my mind.)



(US or Saudis invading Syria gains the US regime change and as result loss of Russian navy base in Syria, plus gain of regional influence to Saudis over Iran. It is murky politics, but basically Iran is run by the shia and supposedly they are allied with Syrian alawite government. Also, US ally Israel in the region gains the Golan Heights aka Syrian Golan permanently - if the new regime in Syria permanently denounces its rights to the land. I mean, it is all very very regional but at the same time very important on the grand scale of things. Do some research of your own on the net if you wish. )

"Gains the U.S. regime change". Hmm, to what exactly? True, American military intervention would spell the end to Assad, but what comes after that, and what exactly about it is pro-American? Do you know anything at all about the people actually fighting Assad and his regime? Do you know anything about their own political leanings? About their leaders or why they're fighting? Do you know that a good portion of the rebels are radicalized Islamist extremists who, while attempting to depose Assad, or simultaneously fighting each other? Do you know that al Qaeda is fighting Assad, as are there splinter group ISIS? Both organizations have been very, very open about their desire to create an Islamist state adhering to 6th century Muslim law. Why would the United States want to aid that vision? Last I checked the U.S. and al Qaeda don't exactly get along.

Syria is a huge problem for America primarily because there are no easy outs for them. If they intervene they rid the world of Assad, who by the way is one of the most evil people alive (I've noticed you've omitted that from your...logic or whatever), but then would throw Syria into an even bigger civil war as the rebels turn on one another. If they do nothing countless numbers of innocent people continue to die. It's a total lose-lose situation for the United States.

Also, you haven't even mentioned the talks of Geneva 2, the deal engineered by Russia and backed by the United States, which fell apart like a cheap tent. You haven't mentioned that the chemical weapons removal plans, a huge part of any peace settlement, have been an unmitigated disaster as Syria has failed to meet any disposal deadlines whatsoever. You've totally left out Russian motivations for keeping Assad in power, largely the vast quantities of weapons sold to him by Moscow. You haven't said anything about the Shi'a/Sunni conflict and how that plays into things. You haven't even mentioned the crimes of Assad. Both of your anti-American diatribes have been completely void of any detail or nuance regarding the situation.

So yes, I understand regional politics surrounding Syria, and I understand that they're murky at the best of times. In fact I know this issue pretty well. You are absolutely entitled to your opinion and I'm aware that I've come across pretty harsh on this topic, but it is exhausting seeing the United States being bashed over a scenario where they have consistently proven to be one of the only altruistic players in the conflict, especially when that bashing is, I'm sorry, woefully misinformed.

It is like Russia cannot do anything right - because it is never enough.

That's what the world (not just the U.S.) tends to think when you've been the bad guys of the last 70 years or so. That's the perception created when the Russian dictator completely perverts the will of his own people and the democratic process.

And lastly, your implication that the American media is this devious arm of the democratically elected U.S. government, in contrast to Putin's near complete control of the Russian media, is laughable.

 

[Buffy Summers]

Okay everyone, could we all just settle down, and focus on what this thread was supposed to be about? If you want to debate this topic, please take it to the Bronze.

Thanks 🙂

 

[Xin Rong]

Has anyone else seen the Captain America trailer that shows a conversation between Fury and CA, it really rfeminds me of Angel's speech to Connor at the start of season 4.

Angel definitely has some much greater quotes than Buffy, it's a shame it's usually neglected as a source material for such things, so it's nice that someone has utilised one so well.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

I think there is a reason for Putin being harsh on gays:

When you control the media in your country, you get to choose what pictures are released about yourself. When this is one of the pictures, there is only one conclusion:

Putin is gay.

And he hates himself for it. Can you think of a picture that is more Village People than that? Think of it this way - I am a heterosexual, married for many years. I don't hate homosexuality because it is not part of the contents of my mind. If someone else is gay, I don't care, nor do I imagine what is going on in the bedrooms of gays. There was one senator in the US a few years ago who promoted rabidly anti-gay legislation because he was gay (and got caught soliciting in an airport washroom). Like Putin, he was trying to convince himself that he was not gay and it occupied his mind because it was all he could think about.